Gromnir

the fact that she had (you is the one who used past tense, so that makes it even better) black friends is not an issue. you and her thinking it is meaningful that she had black friends is what is funny. Well she did have them, so what? Grow up. am recalling when we were teaching in europe we would frequent find our euro friends talking 'bout the shortcoming o' Americans. apparently we were stupid and fat and uncultured and a laundry list o' other shortcomings. we would remind folks that Gromnir were American and they would actually seem surprised. they were comfortable 'nuff 'round us that they didn't even think o' us as an American. "oh, we don't me you." that made it better? Gromnir has white friends who is racist. we can even like the racists. is often good folks and if they saw you were in need, they would give you the shirt off their back, regardless o' your color or creed. nevertheless, put them in charge o' hiring new employees and ask 'em why they didn't hire Mr. A, a seeming superior qualified minority candidate. response is,"our more conservative clients won't react well to his accent, and and if it wasn't for affirmative action..." is quote from a smart and funny guy who we would happily introduce our sister to if not for the fact that the guy don't even realize that he is racist. "oh, i don't blame them--it's not their fault that they didn't have the same educational and social advantages that we did." he can say such stuff with Gromnir in the room. we is the guy who didn't have the same social and educational advantages that he did. we like the guy. it pisses us off more than a little that we like the guy. we has largely given up trying to get him to understand that he is a racist 'cause he just acts hurt when we point out when he is being racist. the other kinda racist "friends" is no better--the ones who say or do something racist, then need necessarily check to see if Gromnir caught 'em in the act. *eye roll* honestly we don't give a rat's fart worth o' concern when such happens. Gromnir acting indignant is not gonna make the guy with white guilt any less racist. when they clumsily try and retract racism or bend over backwards to avoid appearance o' racism, we can't help but feel some small amount o' pity. regardless, we is certain that we has been held up as an example o' the minority friend that proves that a racist... isn't. y'know, 'cause we is educated and don't like rap music and 'cause we don't constantly make everything 'bout race. HA! Good Fun! ps thanks to bruce and bester... and now Gromnir, we is getting way off topic. is about bioware writers being misogynistic, yes? not anymore.

"No. I actually showed her this thread and she said some people on this forum are incredibly dumb because she's had black friends when she lived abroad and she's always made fun of people with prejudices." this might be better than the percentages shtick. the, "i have friends who are black," bit is so freaking rich. bwahhahhhaahh! lordy, we didn't think you would go there, but you did. classic. hey, go ahead and google "i have black friends." see what kinda funny stuff your search turns up. no, really. HA! Good Fun!

it is not racist to acknowledge that you prefer a certain aggregate o' physical features in a prospective romantic partner. some may consider that shallow, but is not racist. perhaps you prefer gabrielle union to halle berry? if bester's hypothetical girl had made the observation that the one nwn male romance option for women were ugly, we would chuckled but that woulda' been the end o' it. all the nwn companions looked a bit comical to us. their aesthetic were the result o' a single portrait and a blocky 3d avatar, so they all looked silly. on the other hand, to dismiss the nwn option because he were black is racism. is a kinda and stoopid variety, but is clear racist. "In fact in South Africa certain people won't even date outside there religious group. So would this make them racist ?" am thinking the proper term is "bigot" not racist. values is acquired and is not a matter o' birth. dismiss the possibility o' dating a crpg gamer or a santerian priest is not making a judgement 'pon a person simple for aspects they got no control over. it is different than racism or misogyny. nevertheless, we believe that mindless discrimination 'gainst persons simple because o' their religious beliefs is bigoted and bad. Gromnir is a bit less touchy 'bout discrimination based on acquired values. discriminate 'gainst willful ignorant individual is ok by us. discriminate 'gainst a person who can't distinguish their/there/they're is also striking us as fair. so if somebody wanna discriminate 'gainst an individual who has not taken Jesus or Odin or Ganesha into their heart, perhaps they got just as much o' a basis to do so as does Gromnir to discriminate against people who didn't get at least 1350 on their sat (old score). that makes us an elitist snob and we is ok with that. keep in mind that English is weird and "discrimination" is having complex nuances o' meaning. discrimination that is bad is requiring us to treat unfairly 'cause o' categorical labeling. we discriminate 'gainst you personally based on personal qualities and not 'cause o' broad categories and it ain't evil and prejudicial discrimination. regardless all this is beside the point-- not make hypo-girl less racist if you happen to know some religious bigots in south africa. and whether hypo girl is racist or shallow or whatever not make gaider any more misogynistic. HA! Good Fun!

... in the history o' this board, we has never taken oby, or his her dopples, seriously. as harsh as we is 'bout vol, the canadian is ten times more likely to get some measure o' our consideration. that is all we need say on the matter. HA! Good Fun!

girl considers it misogynistic that developers only give her a single human option to romance, and that the option in question is a (*shudder*) black man. yeah, that sounds racist... and stupid. girl seems fixated on humans-only romances. fine. is a crpg so more power to her. some thirteen-year-old girls like elf and vampire romances. nevertheless, bio developers give our maturity-challenged girl gamer a human male to romance in me 3. heck, alenko is also white. hooray! unfortunately, because a male shepard playing a complete different iteration o' me 3 can also romance alenko, the racist girl finds the romance unpalatable. alenko is not even demonstrably bisexual in her play of me3, but mere possibility that a male shephard somewheres will romance alenko makes it unworthy o' consideration. it also, in some as yet inexplicable way, reveals the misogynist leanings of bioware writers. ... yeah. btw, as far as we can tell, at this point all we is talking 'bout is a hypothetical racist and homophobic teenager girl... is kinda a schrödinger's cat thought experiment. HA! Good Fun!

at actual sporting venues, our experience suggests that there is a correlation 'tween alcoholic beverage consumption and obnoxiousness. nascar events, surprisingly, has relative polite fans in attendance. tickets is relative cheap at such events and you usual get the whole family piling into the ford f-150 to see a nascar event. dads, even southern dads, is less likely to get slobber-knockered with the missus and little billy watching. Less likely. compare to average nfl football game in the south... places such as atlanta. tickets is so expensive that whole family making the trip is kinda rare. even if mr. southerner doesn't go to game, he might go to a sports bar to watch. our token atlanta fan gets drunk and stoopid and angry. mr. southerner is now mr. angry and angry goes home to his wife who weren't all that happy 'bout being left at behind and chooses too give her drunk and angry husband some grief 'bout the falcons losing... again. is no wonder domestic abuse calls increase so dramatic after a loss by a local nfl team. same guy who were nice and polite at a nascar event has just been arrested for beating his wife half-to-death with an end-table lamp. sure, is a gross oversimplification o' the situation, but am serious in thinking that if you can be discovering the fans who drink the most, you will also be discovering which fans is most unpleasant. HA! Good Fun!

condolences. were you at least the first to discover the new reflecting pool in your kitchen? no doubt mrs. enoch is the most kindest and understanding woman in the world, but in our experience there is a tactical advantage to discovering your own blunders before your significant other does so. HA! Good Fun!

"Ah, now we've hit at the core of the matter-- the Court is trying to expand employment opportunities for those misguided souls who stumbled out of law school under the illusion that they could find paying work practicing First Amendment law! " how could anybody with the minimal brainpower it takes to pass the bar exam think that they could earn a living doing First Amendment law? HA! Good Fun!

if the guys in the picture had any kinda muscle-tone, they would look like traditional hazing victims we recall from our rugby days. am not certain why it were funny to get new recruits drunk to point o' illness, have them cover each other in graffiti with permanent black marker and then have them walk home naked or near naked... typical wear nothing but your rugby boots and maybe a jockstrap. nevertheless, that were how we built esprit de corp. yay us. HA! Good Fun!

1 romancable human male companion 1 romancable human female companion misogyny Not found. ... how is this not getting through? am serious baffled. gotta a problem with thane? Gromnir would not romance any o' the bio companions. use us as measure stick is poor. that being said, faceless hazmat-suit girl with bird legs and the squid headed woman whose eyes go complete black and can mind-fry us seem no less bizarre to us than does the tragic and soulful iguana assassin. mermaids is 'posed to be attractive and they is having fish parts from waist down. am having no urge to check, but we suspect there is a whole sub-genre o' asian porn based on weird animal-human hybrids. again, Gromnir is quite happy that he don't "get it." regardless, thane is no different than alien female options male players would have available to them if they were actual interested in the bioware romances. as for alenko, smart move on passing the buck, but that don't help much does it? is hardly compelling to note that the wife says alenko and anomen is same in spite o' you earlier having noted flaws in anomen that is not shared by alenko. doesn't matter though as you got bare handful o' possible male romance options... is same for female. limited for same = no mysoginy. as a bio writer, chances are you is gonna need cover the various cliché male romance types. racist girl don't like that alenko were the wrong personality? tough. is not misogyny, is simple math. short o' giving alenko mpd, chances are he weren't gonna be the right fit for a race sensitive homophobe looking for love in a bioware game. garrus mighta been a better personality fit. so mighta' the blue thing. dunno, Gromnir is wrong one to ask, but fact remains that male players were having same similar issues with their option for a human female companion. that being said, please recognize the following so we need not repeat yet again: 1=1 1 human female option = 1 human male option. same exact treatment makes claim o' misogyny difficult to take serious. HA! Good Fun! ps but this is going back to being pure stupid. were funny when bester were trying to explain how unacceptable blackness is acceptable by posting his percentages. we won't be responding unless bester or his girlfriend gives us more such stuff.

btw, observing that some folks were raised in more homogenized societies does not diminish the breadth or depth o' bester's girlfriend's racist tendencies. if she comes from such a homogenized nation or community, then that enculturation likely explains her racism, but it don't validate or excuse it. HA! Good Fun!

relevancy? misogyny is the contempt for women, yes? somehow the existence o' one lone human companion were evidence o' mysoginy... am still trying to figure that out. me 3 offers one human female companion. relevance found. 'course is only relevant if your "friends" utter ridiculous notions is relevant. seriously can gives us a headache. as to wiki *chuckle* so she is complaining 'bout romances not available to her? fine, then that again puts thane back into the mix. and without wiki we effective have same alien:human ratio for romances. and round we go. seriously. read or reread your posts before hitting "post." will save loads of time. "He's bisexual and Anomen is gayish. They're very much alike." so, racist and homophobic? there mere existence o' a possible same-sex relationship makes a hetero relationship unpalatable? ashley is the one human female may also have a same-sex relationship. so your racist girlfriend (friend who is a girl, not necessarily suggesting you is romantic involved,) is having same treatment as male players. no misogyny found. am not sure what the relevance o' anomen being "gayish"? simple grammar fausx pas we expect. you suggest that anomen and alenko is similarly "gayish" yes? is that the technical term-- "gayish"? this is getting good. please indulge and describe how me 3 alenko is particularly "gayish." oh, sure, any joinable npc could be given such a label, but after your wonderful race % contribution we really wanna see you define the gayishness o' alenko. will no doubt be fascinating. HA! Good Fun!

"Most women don't go outside their age and race group when looking for a partner. Well, race is vague in this context, so let me clarify. This is my approximations, but anyway: 100% white females would go for a white or white-ish (spanish, italian) male, 60% would also go for arabs and turks, 40% would also go for asian males, and only 20% would also go for blacks. Hence her disappointment. A black romanceable NPC is so outside everyone's type that it's basically like offering a 70 year old frail NPC as a romanceable guy." that were hilarious. do it s'more. honestly. try to makes yourself look like a bigger yutz. we dare you. and Gromnir ain't black. sooo... *shrug* there goes that theory. as to interracial romance, particularly in a game with inter-species romance, the comments seem at least odd and arguable racist. your friend seems willing to lump aliens o' various species in to bolster male hetero sex options, but black, which is clear more human than the calamari heads and hazmat suit girl, is distinguished? dig your hole Deeper. please. did you even think before posting? "Two of which are ALIEN, and one "Anomen". Thanks, bio." and of the two female companions, one is alien and one ashley. we read the complains 'bout anomen from racist girl, and alenko is not a lonely rich kid whose biggest problem is that his parents want him to be a paladin. am not thinking there is an option to make him evil neither, so other than the fact that he is a white guy, we don't see how she is drawing such close comparisons to anomen. soooo... btw, the only way you get five female romances from a male sheppard that is "not a one night stand that has no implications whatsoever," is if you has played me2... so am gonna call bs. your "friend" is doing totals based on previous me games played, but you now claim "she" hasn't. sound like bs. as an aside, 'cause we typical avoid crude, but is clear that your woman friend could use the bioware style "love" o' a black man... or perhaps two. HA! Good Fun!

am thinking gaider recognized that he hadn't managed to create a romance option for women that had broad appeal when he penned anomen. that is one reason he were so active with the Ladies of Neverwinter and their site. you ain't gonna get an argument from gaider that anomen were fantabulous... other than the typical writer knee-jerk kinda thing whenever somebody mindlessly flames your stuff. is also worth noting that if bester's woman acquaintance wants to be taken seriously, then suggesting black doesn't count is not the bestest option. sure, the lady's racism does not diminish the potential validity o' a claim o' misogyny, but it comes off as hypocritical nevertheless. we also had a difficult time following the nwn complaints. mass effect 3 musta played different for different folks... somehow. now, there were many games that bio released between nwn and me3, so am guessing those didn't support the main thesis-- we don't know as we purposeful avoid bio romances. nevertheless, to have so many games not mentioned is noteworthy in itself. regardless, as to me3, am not recalling as many joiables as does bester's friend. again, we so rare pay attention to romances, so we needed to go to the wiki for me3 to even recollect all the party npcs Kaidan Alenko Tali'Zorah vas Normandy Liara T'Soni Garrus Vakarian James Vega Ashley Williams Javik EDI edi were a joker romance, so even the no doubt vocal lesbian robot sex crowd were likely disappointed (only for a bio game does we need make such an observation.) javik were the angry alien and part of dlc. he had kinda a stereotypical "black" accent too, so no doubt bester's friend woulda' been uninterested even if he weren't visually alien. leaves six companions: 3 male, 2 female, and 1 blue thing that looks female but isn't. bester's girl could get sexed-up by two o' the three males and the blue thing... if that were her desire. male shephards could have ugly digital sex with the two female companions and the blue thing. am not sure o' the same-sex couplings, but bester's pal didn't mention them either, sooooo... *shrug* sounds even to us. am guessing you could have somewhat abbreviated libidinous relations with previous companions that make appearances in me3. yes? jack and miranda? wouldn't thane be a similar option? we didn't explore, but seems doubtful that bio would pass up potential sex with a sad and dying guy? if tali gets counted as a woman, then thane and garrus should counts as male, yes? ... regardless, we responded serious to a silly post. any more than this would be criminal. HA! Good Fun!

Hey, don't make me come over there and give you some freedom. I'm not the one having religious lunatics dictate the political agenda. truth-to-tell, having the religious lunatics dictate the political agenda has worked out very well for us in the past. wisconsin v. yoder were a case in which the amish didn't want their kids to be forced into public education for X years. how can you find against the amish? they is so darn cute. christian scientists, jehovah's witness and faith healing groups has given us a better idea o' the limits o' parental decision making regarding life-saving health measures wherein such measures conflict with s'posed religious obligations. the iskcon (international society o' krishna consciousness) has been at the forefront o' any number o' free speech and free exercise o' religion cases. can hari krishnas loiter in airports to be handing out their pamphlets and collecting money? can they be confined to certain limited locations at a state fair (back by the port-o' johns) if they wish to proselytize and beg? etc. pentecostals, santerians, scientoligists and moonies... theses is the folks that has been the at the front-line o' religious rights battles while the rest o' us sit back and watch with a kinda bemused curiosity. are we really having a 'case 'bout ritualistic slaughter o' chickens in urban neighborhoods? yes, yes we are. yeah, it sounds crazy, but is the folks on the fringe who is always testing the limits o' free speech and religion. nazis in skokie and crips in oakland and koran burning kooks in gainsville. let the nutters test the limits o' freedom is not such a bad way to go. mormons, jews and catholics has suffered persecution and bigotry here in the US from time-to-time and to various degrees o' infamy. word,"muslim" is emotionally charged. have muslims relegated to "religious lunatic" category has not been beyond the realm o' possibility in recent years. regardless, even if hasidic jews and greek orthodox were to suddenly be dismissed as nutters, they would still be getting full First Amendment protection, and that is in part 'cause the serious freaks has been fighting for our freedoms for a very long time. "(Alternately, it could be argued that, for certain folks on the Court, consistent legal reasoning takes a backseat to the "will this make dirty hippies happy or sad?" test.)" rehnquist drove us a little nuts. is many members o' the Court that like to pretend that nobody in the brotherhood is a political animal, but we got a hard time believing such notions. HA! Good Fun!

Peyote does strange things to jurists. yeah, am wondering if Scalia wrote the decision for oregon v. smith while in a peyote filled sweat tent/lodge. that being said, we will be reading hobby very close 'cause after our first few readings, it looks... childish. you got ginsburg claiming that the decision will open the gates o' hell and set lose the dogs o' war on the rights o' women and minorities. alito responds by saying that she is wrong. is very little we can find that gives scope to the decision. http://www.thereason4hope.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/nuh-uh-vs-yes-huh.jpg is actual good for business, but... *shrug* HA! Good Fun!

aside oregon v. smith is a much misunderstood case. the subsequent religious freedom restoration act and its amendments is even more troublesome as is unconstitutional in application to States, and has questionable validity regarding the Fed. is best to think o' oregon v. smith as akin to the free speech case o' united states v. o'brien, 391 U.S. 367... got a cf cite as a matter o' fact. scalia's "hybrid" rationale were puzzling however. regardless, the standard o' review for free exercise since at least 1972 is strict scrutiny. the Court in oregon v. smith were claiming that it weren't actual a true free exercise issue. Scalia rare engages in such fuzzy legal reasoning. were almost a unique decision for him. HA! Good Fun!

"So come 1993, if you have a compelling reason which meets strict scrutiny you can get an exemption to the law for religious reasons." 1993? this been the standard o' judicial review in free exercise cases for a long time... much further back than 1993. lawyers and legal scholars joke, "strict in name, but fatal in practice." with strict scrutiny, Government has burden o' showing that the state action is designed to achieve a compelling government interest by narrowly tailored means and must be using the least restrictive means to achieve the govt's interest. money & cost is never a compelling government interest-- think on that for a second. there is some noteworthy cases wherein government wins when they got strict scrutiny to overcome, but they is few and far between... and is very controversial. the famous japanese internment case were one wherein the government utilized strict scrutiny to uphold government action. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/supremecourt/personality/landmark_korematsu.html rational basis (government wins) and heightened or intermediate scrutiny (black jack odds) is your other options for judicial review o' constitutional questions. nobody knows when or why the Court will create a new category o' heightened scrutiny. gender discrimination gets heightened scrutiny. is some cases where the mentally retarded got heightened scrutiny. is often seeming that heightend scrutiny is the conscience-saving option for the Court when addressing fundamental rights. hobby question were actual quite profound and potential far reaching. the Court decided that a for-profit corporation can gets full protection o' the First Amendment free exercise clause. is not a decision that says ALL for-profit corporations deserve such protections, so am expecting that it will be some time before we know full ramifications o' this case, but regardless, the Court were quite clear that qualities o' for-profit and corporation does not preclude First Amendment protection. once the Court decided that the corporation gots benefit o' strict scrutiny, then government were gonna lose. HA! Good Fun!

actually, we had assumed we would be included as a flatulent xvart or somesuch. the fact that we were included as a "paranoid" dictator who were proven ultimately correct, were far better treatment than we expected. HA! Good Fun! ps amentep were a mod from time to time. might be best to ask him if there were a biowarian or black isle directive to stifle openly homosexual posters. I kinda think that Dave was trolling you when he quoted you instead with "HAH! Good Fun!" and making it a half-orc... but again, it turned out better than we expected. dave had emailed to warn us that they were intending on including Gromnir in bg2. our response was, "do your worst." a mini-boss character in tob with voice-over who were tragically given the Cassandra role? far, Far better than expectations. actual, it woulda' been in biowarian best interest to have simple used Gromnir as comic relief. shoulda' realized that boards would react poorly to significant cameos. HA! Good Fun!

actually, we had assumed we would be included as a flatulent xvart or somesuch. the fact that we were included as a "paranoid" dictator who were proven ultimately correct, were far better treatment than we expected. HA! Good Fun! ps amentep were a mod from time to time. might be best to ask him if there were a biowarian or black isle directive to stifle openly homosexual posters.

if you say so. we used your example. that kinda thing pops up eventual in every romance thread... more than once is common. in the past, the mods and the community itself woulda' ended such "robust, honest and opinionated" debates before they got started. actual honest and opinionated debates were rare a problem. again, Gromnir were there more than five years ago. please keep in mind that there is a particular amusement for us in this context given our history with bioware. am thinking that it is somewhat obvious that Gromnir is a contentious poster. if you honestly believe that the biowarians in 1999 and 2000 would have censored or hindered polite and earnest openly homosexual posters while at same time finding Gromnir funny and/or harmless 'nuff that they were willing to include a character based 'pon our board personality (sorta) in one o' their games, then you is clear deluding self. oh, and we were arguable more adversarial back in 2000. HA! Good Fun!

but we already mentioned that you could post as an open homosexual on the boards pre 5 years ago. so being homosexual and asking for homosexual romance were hardly verboten before you became aware. so what has changed since that time? your example is actual indicative o' the change whether you meant to highlight that point or not. being crude and vulgar 'bout sex on the bio boards is now run-o'-the-mill. is ordinary. the great progress made is that openly homosexual posters is not chastised to any greater degree than is the hetero. so congrats to bio and congrats to bruce. call it a win. HA! Good Fun!

"But I want to focus on the last paragraph, I don't want to give undeserved credit to Bioware but I also think we should recognize that Bioware has created a popular and well known "safe " zone for gay gamers where they can discuss Romance options without fear of ridicule or criticism. And this is important as this is part of the discussion around inclusivity in games and gaming websites "This is not the same thing as websites that won't tolerate Homophobia. My experience around gay Romance discussions is that this is one of the most contentious issues that people battle to accept. For example if I go to any gaming website that is discussing Romance in Bioware games and say "Wow Isabela was hot, nice breasts on that one. I would have loved to tap that ass" the most criticism I would receive is something along the lines of " that's crude"...or " wow you are objectifying women in a crass way " or something similar "Now take that same example but let me rather raise the fact that Anders was hot then describe how I want to have sex with him and I can guarantee you the criticism will be much more personal and vituperative" soooo, bio has changed things for the better. bruce may now be crude and crass when making appeals to "tap that ass" be it the behind of Theodore or Theodora. congrats to you and bioware for giving us this brave new world. in the past such appeals for a gay "romance" (HA!) would have needed to be couched in a respectful and serious tone? now you may be at least moderate vulgar and pre-pubescent in your discussion o' sex o' any flavor without fear o' censorship or recrimination. ... am thinking we coulda' done without such profound social progress. HA! Good Fun!

"I think that gaming is one medium that you can get a certain message across and set a certain narrative. Think about just 7 years ago, the thought of homosexual Romance options in games was unheard of. Now Bioware has bravely and correctly changed this design in the interests of inclusivity. Nowadays its really not acceptable to go to most forums and make comments like " gay people must burn in the fires of hell and the only good gay person is a dead gay person"" you give Way too much credit to bio. seven years ago if you had gone to most any developer crpg message board and posted insulting comments about homosexuals, you woulda' been quickly and soundly chastised. am recalling a number o' nwn communities that developed in anticipation o' that game... and that started development considerable more than seven years ago. alfa were a group we helped with... for bit. http://www.alandfaraway.org/ is still around. had a few Thousand members at one point. there were more than a few openly homosexual members. there were one particularly vocal transsexual member. *shrug* most folks didn't care 'bout sexual orientation of alfa members... and keep in mind that the guy who were elected to be in charge o' alfa at the time were a major in the US army. is not as if nwn were advertised as a gay friendly game neither. interplay, black isle, atari and bioware (nwn had a complicated development) were hardly promoting nwn as a game that were friendly to alternative lifestyle choices, and hasbro, the parent corp o' wotc and d&d were almost comical opposite o' being open 'bout matter sexual. nevertheless, gay bashing woulda' been stopped by community and mods very quick in those days. *shrug* our perspective is different. we do not see bio as successfully promoted gay tolerance in the crpg world. at "best," bio made so that every crpg development must at least need consider and have open debate about gay romance. am s'posing that is a kinda improvement for the lgbt gaming community. if you squint your eyes and kinda look at the situation sideways and optimistic as possible, then such a triviality might appear to be a "win." huzzah? HA! Good Fun!

In a DLC for New Vegas there are members of an unnamed religion that is never specifically labeled as Mormonism and IIRC Josh Sawyer has said it wasn't exactly Mormonism. Yup... I painted it for fun.. I did Keldorn and Aerie too but Minsc's is my favorite. josh made very clear that new canaanites developed from mormonism... even the name, honest hearts, is coming from a Brigham Young quote: "Honest hearts make for honest actions." HA! Good Fun!