Gromnir

let us introduce you to the developer of PoE: https://www.obsidian.net/ they is know for such character-driven crpgs as nwn2, motb and kotor2. companions is almost invariably listed by fans and critics as a highlight o' their games. stories o' joinable npcs and side-quest npcs is typical the unsung stars o' obsidian games. the core obsidian developers/bosses were part o' interplay and black isle http://www.ign.com/companies/black-isle-studios ps:t, in particular, is well-known and beloved by a smallish but dedicated group o' fans not 'cause o' its wonderful combat, but cause o' non-player characters, and particular the companions. http://www.gamebanshee.com/planescapetorment/companions.php perhaps you backed poe 'cause o' obsidian's work on dungeon siege 3? ok, maybe we is being a bit snarky, but is weird to hear from a backer o' poe that they is not particular concerned with companions, 'cause that is one o' the things that actual sets obsidian apart from many crpg developers. HA! Good Fun!

venison is likely. juniper berries is a traditional ingredient in venison sausage. is typical to grind equal parts pork and venison (or 1/2 venison, 1/4 pork and 1/4 beef. veal is typical too mild for venison sausage.) then add salt, pepper, garlic, dried juniper berries and a bit o' sugar... need hog casings and water too. some folks add sage or thyme, but am not seeing as necessary. you want thyme or sage? then build a sauce or braising liquid with such stuff. hot smoke the sausages... then use however you like your sausage. we typical braise in a red wine... again add juniper berries and whatever strikes our fancy. had a friend try and tell us that bear meat works well... tasted vile. juniper does Not compliment bear, though am not a fan o' bear regardless. perhaps marjoram and/or coriander would work better for bear? or skip the bear altogether? HA! Good Fun!

how do you typical decide if somebody is good or bad? people you meet at work or school don't have a character record sheet that has a distillation o' their personality on some kinda cheesy x-y graph and yet we bet you can decide whether people is good or bad. people don't have a pleasant white glow if they is in touch with the light side of the force, but that don't stop us from deciding that amon goth were clearly a dark side character... some folks might actual disagree. *shudder* even characters in novels and movies is typical requiring us to decide for ourselves if we would label them good or bad... or otherwise. were frankenstein's monster bad or were he the ultimate victim o' shelly's novel? would be kinda cheap to have shelly attach a chaotic-neutral label to the monster, no? am expecting that the obsidians want us to decide for ourselves if their characters is good or bad or... whatever. observe and decide. HA! Good Fun!

aside: we do sympathize with zor's plight... or we pretend to sympathize. which makes zor look more foolish: 1) arguing in june/july o' 2014 that sanctions would not hurt russia, or 2) arguing in february 2015 that western sanctions hadn't actual been a severe blow to the russian economy? well, clear #2 is delusional and having a greater tendency to illustrate those unfortunate characteristics we claimed zor is showing. so we get why zor don't wanna discuss #2. perhaps he thinks Gromnir tricked him into making the #2 claim? doubt it, but regardless, the proverbial cat is outta the bag. zor made a complete obtuse and delusional claim. is no amount o' conspiracy nonsense or yellow journalism hokum that can erase the ridiculous assertions zor made in the last few pages, though am guessing he would wish everybody to forget. *shrug* and you kinda already admitted to #1 anyway: Gromnir: the current scenario, albeit less bleak, is exactly what Gromnir and others predicted LAST year when we were all posting those lovely export/economy graphics that showed just how dependent Russia is on oil. it is an extreme fragile economy. you didn't pay attention then, and now you act as if the oil situation were unpredictable. zor: Nope, I said that economic sanctions would not severely impact Russia. The oil price is independent of the sanctions and unrelated to them, it's Saudi taking a dump on frackers. we didn't make you admit that you had said that, "economic sanctions would not severely impact russia." that were all on you. more important and relevant and... fun, please explain away Alexei Kudrin? his comments about 40% o' the devaluation o' the ruble being due to western sanctions is imagined by yellow journalists we 'spose, or is the result o' a conspiracy? you got a Men in Black explanation we s'pose? mr. Kurdin, the former minister o' finance, also were critical o' russian military spending AND observed the pain the russians were feeling from self-imposed sanctions. maybe you prefer Anders Åslund? we got more juicy quotes from him regarding the impact o' western sanctions and russian stupidity on the general state o' the russian economy. HA! Good Fun!

*sigh* so you admit the silly claim that russian self-imposed sanctions were only west shooting self, and the context o' the following... "Yes, I hear that Russia is down to their last 376 billion! "Always a good laugh, seeing US press (and especially Uncle Rupes' Yellow Journalists) talking their enemies down, you'd think dealing with the 18 trillion dollar (and currently increasing at more than Russia's entire external debt annually) log in their own eye would garner rather more attention." were nothing more than these 2 posts... which were little more than Gromnir links, http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69691-ukraine-discussion/?p=1569008 http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69691-ukraine-discussion/?p=1569041 our mention of six months, To A Year, came AFTER your ostrich routine without your imagined context. so, what exact is your complaint? *snort* so, given that we is all on same page with you trying to imagine away the russian financial crisis, please explain away Alexei Kudrin? his comments about 40% o' the devaluation o' the ruble being due to western sanctions is imagined by yellow journalists we 'spose, or is the result o' a conspiracy? you got a Men in Black explanation we s'pose? mr. Kurdin, the former minister o' finance, also were critical o' russian military spending AND observed the pain the russians were feeling from self-imposed sanctions. etc? don't blame Gromnir for your foolishness. you stuck your neck out on your own. so many folks even in this thread saw what were coming. you did ostrich bit with complaints o' yellow journalism and conspiracy theory. HA! Good Fun!

... you may need to buy a "pet" boa constrictor. HA! Good Fun!

*chuckle* in this post http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66281-ongoing-discussion-of-ukraine/page-23?do=findComment&comment=1476654 you reference more than just the impotence o' counter-sanctions, but we need not go through every one o' your delusional posts... again. am not thinking that your attempt to limit tio counter-sanctions helps you much either, but you wanna ignore all the imf, central bank and harvard experts as the result o' yellow journalism and conspiracy. heck, in recent posts you has told us that sanctions didn't even hurt that much and that it were simple drop in oil that were causing the non-crisis in russia. is tough to keep up with your spinning Alexei Kudrin? HA! Good Fun! ps we really only scanned your last post 'cause this has gone beyond ridiculous. Alexei Kudrin? 40%? etc?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66281-ongoing-discussion-of-ukraine/?p=1455485 http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66281-ongoing-discussion-of-ukraine/?p=1457847 that were a great ostrich moment that kgambit exposed, but you plowed right through. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66281-ongoing-discussion-of-ukraine/?p=1476496 and the hijinks ensue. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66281-ongoing-discussion-of-ukraine/?p=1476654 further down the line, kgambit tries to help you once again, and your best response is http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/67588-ukraine-discussion/?p=1518297 *shrug* we can go further back or go further forward to find more zor delusional postings regarding sanctions. hell, it were only a few pages ago in this thread when you were telling us that the Russian financial crisis were some kinda invention o’ western journalists, or some such nonsense. “Yes, I hear that Russia is down to their last 376 billion! “Always a good laugh, seeing US press (and especially Uncle Rupes' Yellow Journalists) talking their enemies down, you'd think dealing with the 18 trillion dollar (and currently increasing at more than Russia's entire external debt annually) log in their own eye would garner rather more attention.” you are… laughable, but consistent. delusional, conspiracy theories, yellow journalism and willful avoidance o’ that which clear refutes your nonsense theories. speaking of put up or shut up, Alexei Kudrin? still no response to his observations regarding how much western sanctions have hurt and will continue to hurt even if oil prices rise. funny and sad. HA! Good Fun!

I would say that those words are used because it is often hard to describe why such things like weighty gold makes game better, as it usually comes down to feeling that visual and mechanical representation in the game gives to player. It is very similar to aesthetics, that you have gut feeling what you prefer and what you despise, but when you start to think why you have such feelings and what are the specific points that you like and don't like and how they could be replicated and why replicating them would make you like product more, we come in very difficult territory where most of the people don't know even basic directions let alone have ability direct other people. it is ok if a desired change is simple a matter o' aesthetic choice, but am thinking that use o' "realism" or "verisimilitude" is not used because people is unsure what word to use. rather, the folks who use "realism" instead o' "personal aesthetic" is doing so with purpose. such people realize (conscious or unconscious) that "personal aesthetic" is a pure subjective measure and it is impossible to make claims that changing features 'cause o' Bob's gut will make the game better for anybody other than Bob. "you need to add weighty gold to PoE because, well, I like weighty gold." is not a particular compelling argument, is it? reality adds an objective quality for the proponent o' weighty gold. gold has weight in real life, so further away game gold behaves compared to real world gold (e.g. its volume and weight) the further it has strayed from an objective measure, regardless o' whether that measure is actual meaningful. as a gameplay feature, many folks likes micromanagement. heck, insofar as character creation is concerned, Gromnir enjoys more such micromanagement as 'posed to less... though we realize that the more such options you add, the more opportunities you create for breakage. the more complex you make any system, the more opportunities you create for something to go wrong. even so, we get the folks that might want weighty gold because they genuine do likes that level o' micromanagement. as the developers increase the options and details a player needs keep track of, the happier the micromanager becomes, perhaps because they feel that their choices has greater impact on how the game plays. therefore, weighty gold improves the gameplay experience for some. fine. Gromnir disagrees. is just an example, but is an example that reveals that we can have a very useful debate regarding the gameplay value o' weighty gold w/o resorting to largely aesthetic and extreme selective preference for realism. realism has as much inherent value in a crpg discussion as does immersion. is a meaningless word w/o considerable explanation and illustration and frequent it is used as a cheap dodge to avoid admitting that personal aesthetic is the only real motivation for demanding realistic ___________. HA! Good Fun!

most is nonsense as you is simple fibbing to yourself or all here. hell, you ignore your own posts and Gromnir posts from this page. Alexei Kudrin? but the next bit... "*Dates here are significant, too, as: **Oh, June 2014, before the main bank of sanctions in August and before the Russian counter sanctions you were insisting have raised prices independent of the exchange rate. Even if you could provide cites you'd be assuming I'm prescient about those future sanctions."" soooo missing the point. what were predictable to Gromnir and others on this board, as well as to numerous experts that you dismiss as yellow journalists and/or suggest is part o' some terrible western conspiracy, given just how fragile and oil dependent the russian economy were insofar as oil is concerned... happened. what were predicted to happen by many, and ignored and denied by you, actually came to pass. yes. we were all prescient... or not. perhaps what you continue to deny is that the current situation were predictable. not need prescience to guess that putin intransigence would lead to greater sanctions. not need to be prescient to worry that an economy near complete dependent on oil exports would suffer from sanctions and ANY fluctuation in oil. sure, the degree were exacerbated by the severity o' the oil drop, but an oil drop were a predictable problem, which is why we posted all those wonderful links to russian oil dependence. 12 months from now, when russian financial crisis is significant worse (and it is already freaking bad... although you deny,) will you complain that the reason you did ostrich today is 'cause you couldn't predict increased sanctions following a failed ukraine cease-fire, or that you couldn't predict that russian programs to halt fall o' the ruble would be more expensive than expected, or that oil would indeed stay below $80 a barrel? ostrich... and a loon. am doubting they can crossbreed, but some kinda ostrich/loon. HA! Good Fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-20v1b5jKY well, do you have ants in your pants? do you? HA! Good Fun!

am fully cognizant o' the fact that we are using mature and realism different from you... that were our point as you seemed to use adult and mature almost synonymous. furthermore, we don't see any conflict with a hero (or even superhero) story being potential mature. the lack o' realism surely does not preclude maturity. the odyssey were a hero story and so were beowulf and gilgamesh. in point o' fact, we could bore you to death with the parallels between beowulf and tdkr. am having some difficulty accepting your premise that a hero story is adversarial with maturity... if that is your suggestion-- am still not certain what you is trying to say. ... but again, your observation (or affirmation) that we is using realism and mature and adult different from each other were exact the point we were making. given the near guaranteed failure o' finding common ground for such terms, we suggest people discuss individual features and aspects o' a game and then explain why doing a particular way would make the game better. somebody bring up weighty gold and starts talking about verisimilitude, immersion or realism and we is gonna have problems. why does weighty gold make game better? *shrug* HA! Good Fun! ps far too often, "immature" and "lack of realism" is ways for folks to say, "it sucks," while convincing selves that they were giving a more enlightened critique than the vacuous "sucks" dismissal. am not suggesting that krakarov is doing so, but far too often we see lack o' maturity condemnation used with the same lack o' support or insight as "it sux."

Great video, nice post. Totally agree with it. Realism in RPG's, fantasy or otherwise, is huge if you want to tell a mature adult story with complex themes. It isn't about the mechanics of the game, or what your characters are capable of. It is about the believability of the setting, your ability to become immersed in it, and making the player care about the story and characters. Everyone can enjoy a good old fashioned romp through a traditional heroic story. But if you are trying to do something more thought provoking and thematic that relies on a serious plot you better have some realism in your game. Or it will fall flat on it's face. I will briefly borrow Mass Effect in this case. Mass Effect 1 is the best game in the series because it is a bit more... realistic in scope than the others. Your character is trying to stop this huge invasion but the game ends on a note letting you know "hey guy, good job, but you won a battle not the war". What was even cooler about it was if you took the time to go through all the story and lore type info in the game you found it had explanations for everything. Even down to explaining why there was no ammo in the game. Was it "realistic" no in the sense that in reality that tech doesn't exist. But the world was believable and it had an air of realism to it because of the thought that went into it and the depth of history and information on why the world was how it was. am not even sure if it is possible to more complete disagree... am just not sure how far we wanna get into this. frank miller graphic novels, has anybody read them? is likely you have at least heard of 300 or the dark knight returns. now, thematically you got dark and mature storytelling, particularly when compared to genre as a whole. but realism? there is very little realism in tdkr other than the emotion. visually, the tdkr characters is so unrealistic that for years we heard that tdkr could never be animated simply because no character that looked like batman or joker from miller's work could possibly be made to move and still look like a frank miller character. you gots mutants and superman and nuking of fictional islands and the joker as a guest on david letterman... where he predictably kills everybody in the audience. realism? am gonna simple mention 300 once again and let the self-described historians on the board tell us just how realistic miller's portrayal o' the battle o' thermopylae were, or his visual and or literary description o' the antagonists o' the battle. as we get older, we have greater difficulty in recognizing what is adult and mature in literature. to our way o' thinking, mature and adult is frequent having opposite meanings. compare coraline or the graveyard book by neil gaiman to 50 shades of grey. now, 50 shades is clearly meant for adults, but we would hesitate to suggest that it were more mature than gaiman's works that is specific meant for youth readers. a swiftly tilting planet and the phantom tollbooth is also meant for young readers, but you does a horrible disservice if you suggest that you do not have complex and mature themes in those works. is not much realism in any o' the youth works we mention. we mentioned gaiman earlier. take a looksee at his adult novels such as neverwhere and american gods. we like gaiman's work, but am not gonna even try and sell you on the fact that he is even slight concerned about realism save for creating Emotional verisimilitude. gaiman has internal coherence in his works, but realism? thomas pynchon or (*shudder*) william s. burroghs had a very antagonistic relationship with reality, but you got a fight on your hands if you try and claim that lack o' realism robbed pynchon o' a chance to tell "a mature adult story with complex themes." as we said earlier, we kinda hesitate to get too far into this, but we is near certain that when folks in this thread use the word "realism" they is not all using the same dictionary. sure, we all know what realism means and could identify correct on a multiple-choice test, but in context o' what elements and features in games must needs be realistic and why, we is all speaking a different language. HA! Good Fun! ps please note that we is not arguing against injecting reality into specific features and mechanics o' games, or into the games as a whole, but realism is not a goal in and of itself. need ask the following: why does making __________ realistic make the game better? realism is not a goal.

every time we offer proofs, you do ostrich routine. yellow journalism conspiracy flat-out refusal to respond. Alexei Kudrin? *shrug* this has gone beyond ridiculous. the only folks who could possibly find merit in your non-response is fellow conspiracy nutters and russians who need to believe the pap they is being force-fed daily. HA! Good Fun!

doesn't really change anything, does it? bob wants realistic weight for gold. why? verisimilitude? change word does not fundamental change the nature o' the question. HA! Good Fun!

crpgs is games. typically is Fantasy games, regardless o' whether they is set in futuristic, contemporary or technological retarded past settings. people who want "realism" frequent (not always) ain't knowing how to use their words, 'cause nobody who plays a crpg wants realistic combat or realistic biological needs or even realistic magic... as wacky as that sounds. if you wanted realism, you wouldn't actual want to play the game. reality is readily available and is alternatively boring or frightening when compared to games. some people want visually realistic weapons, but they has a hard time explaining why. some people want realistic weight for gold or realistic food consumption. is not that they want game to be realistic, but folks want those aspects to be teh realz... which is fine. unfortunate, most people have difficulty expressing why they want realistic weight for gold but want so many other aspects o' the game to be fantastical. we got no problem with folks who want realistic _________. heck, we don't like anime weapons, but we ain't gonna explain why at this time as is a whole 'nother issue. nevertheless, the problem is when folks don't know how to use their words and they fail to explain why realistic ________ makes the game better. reality, in and of itself, is not better. even the folks who want realistic ___________ will want a dozen other features to be fantastic. so, explain and we got no problem discussing the advantages and disadvantages o' realistic __________, but realism itself is not a noteworthy goal. somebody will eventual says "immersion." ... is a game over moment when that happens. HA! Good Fun!

It's Offensive in that it forces itself on an enemy, and has an offensive effect. You could argue that any offence is "active defence", in that killing someone means they can't hurt you. Which is exactly why Offence almost always is more important and has a bigger impact than Defence. It is offensive when it deals with the enemy, whether it hurts the enemy, disables them, or interrupts them. It is defensive when it deals with yourself, protection you from the offence of the enemies. Interrupt is the offence to which Concentration is the defence. I'm not arguing with you, really, I'm just making the offence/defence definitions as I used them clear. Your point can basically be summarised into the adage "The best defence is a good offence", and I completely agree, which is my entire point. That's fair. I was thinking more in the terms of Offense = increasing outgoing DPS & Defense = decreasing incoming DPS. So no matter how high you stack your interrupts, it won't increase outgoing DPS, but it will have an effect on your incoming DPS. interrupt works a bit like a stun. a stun attack that also does damage is potentially very powerful, which is no doubt why josh is being so cautious. we have seen the abuse o' stun weapons and attacks in previous rpgs and crpgs just as has josh, so we get the caution. if Gromnir can use an attack that not only reliable damages foes, but prevents enemies from successful attack our party, then we have an extreme vital weapon, but even in 435, that ain't how interrupt works. from a practical and pragmatic pov, even overpowered interrupts o' 435 is not encouraging us to boost resolve or use the numerous spells that increase concentration by 30 for up-to a full minute. HA! Good Fun!

batman as date/romance material? is our policy to never date anybody with serious emotional baggage. being a victim o' childhood trauma and/or sexual/domestic abuse don't make a person bad, but it does mess with their ability to have meaningful romantic relationships. be their friend? sure, but don't date. ... is one reason we don't date strippers. HA! Good Fun!

The problem really is that we have no idea what narrative effects the Attributes will have, so it's all really a moot point. We can't discuss possible narrative effects and the narrative pros and cons of certain Attributes because we don't know the narrative. All we know is really the mechanical aspects, so that's why we discuss them. Until release, the narrative aspect of Attributes exists in a Schrödinger's Game state. It's interesting to guess about, but honestly we have no clue until we play it, so we have to assume that the narrative design is both terrible and/or glorious. We can't affect it in any meaningful way. And if we try, we might kill a cat or something, I don't know, I'm not good at metaphors. the fact that we do not and cannot know the relative importance of attributes beyond combat does not in any way diminish or increase the eventual importance o' such attributes. we are indeed left making educated and uneducated guesses based on only the past behavior o' obsidian developers. but that is the case as with so many elements o' poe, yes? heck, the reason we is a kickstarter supporter o' poe is precisely because o' our experience playing past obsidian crpgs. can we possibly know about story elements and companion interaction o' poe until we play it? nope, but based on past obsidian games, we is moderate confident that we will enjoy such stuff in poe. recognize that we cannot know how much impact resolve and perception and intellect and various skills will have on the game beyond the mechanical numbers resolutions we has seen and tested thus far is hardly convincing us that we should ignore such considerations. in the obsidian nwn games, we liked to play as a cleric, but we Always boosted intelligence to at least 14 and took a few (2-3) levels of rogue so that we would get extra skills. there were no way we could know how much impact the talky skills and intelligence checks would have on dialogues, but past obsidian games had taught us that those social-skill checks would be plentiful and meaningful for those who cared about such checks. our cleric builds were hardly optimal from a pov o' the mechanics o' combat, but there weren't no other way we woulda' chosen to play a cleric who were only receiving 2 skill points per level. recognizing the impossibility o' certainty regarding attributes value beyond combat is not the same as recommending that we should ignore. those who fail to learn from the past... HA! Good Fun!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-02/russia-manufacturing-slumps-to-weakest-since-2009-as-ruble-sinks http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-22/ruble-colluding-with-oil-brews-toxic-loan-morass-russia-credit since zor seems to like bloomberg. oh well. is a russian collapse gonna happen in six months or less? unlikely-- 6 months is a worst case scenario even from those horrible uniformed folks at the imf. somewhere between 6 and 18 months seems likely. new western sanctions would speed up the fail. oil inexplicably starts selling for +$80 per barrel and some o' the default scenarios will be delayed. 'course, as noted earlier in our linked sources, practical reserves o' russia is closer to $200 billion and it took russia less than 5 months to burn through that amount in 2008/2009. situation is worse today than in 2008. western sanctions is hurting russia. russian food sanctions is hurting russia. the drop in oil, which russian stoopidity has made russia particular vulnerable to, has hurt russia. and on top o' everything, western sanctions is making it particular difficult for russia to mitigate the damage from heir current crisis as western aid and loans is not available and there is increasingly less possibility o' paying off western debt. the ostrich routine from zor were laughable in june o' 2014, but now it is absolute insane. "Putin is not scared of sanctions, protecting Russia's interests, which is how he views Ukraine, is a higher calling. " and that is why Alexei Kudrin is no longer the minister o' finance in russia. http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/kudrin-predicts-100-billion-capital-flight-from-russia-this-year/514821.html HA! Good Fun!

and yet, wisdom, which is kinda the resolve equivalent, has gotten disproportionate attention from obsidian in past games. even if resolve, intelligence, perception and lore skill looked complete worthless, we would be very cautious about ignoring those stats and that skill. HA! Good Fun!

that is exactly why people ignored wisdom when they played ps:t their firstest time. no "mag. def. adj." for high wisdom in the ie games and you couldn't play a cleric, so why boost wisdom? am doubting obsidian does anything so oblique with attributes, but am thinking it would be a bit foolish to complete discount the gameplay impact o' attributes outside o' combat. HA! Good Fun! edit: weird auto-correct on spelling

am looking at your graph. not as bad as russia. why? where is the other oil-dependent nations on the worst performing currencies? all o' which ignores point that clearly sanctions has contributed to russian suffering, and RUSSIAN food sanctions exacerbated. am guessing you haven't bothered to read Alexei Kudrin comments. 40% o' the devaluation o' the ruble, according to the former russian minister o' finance, is western sanctions. he ain't wsj or imf or world bank or harvard... though pretending that those sources is poor is ridiculous. western sanctions alone were clear hurting, but the oil situation, which had a predictable impact on the bass akwards russian economy, sent the ruble into free-fall and the russian economy into full recession. last year Gromnir, bruce, kgambit and a host o' others recognized that, gosh, western sanctions could have disproportionate impact on a nation that is near complete dependent on petroleum exports. zor conspiracy theories about journalists and delusions about the health o' the russian economy is funny, but is reinforcing just how unreasonable you is willing to be in the face o' what is obvious to virtual the entire world save russians and a handful o' other conspiracy nutters. HA! Good Fun!

oh, we disappear for a considerable stretch, from time-to-time. 18 months o' absence before early last year. as hard as it is to believe, we get the feeling that some folks didn't miss us much. in any event, welcome back. HA! Good Fun!

Well, aside from your usual fellating of posts, I must say this was amusing. What does the West want to be seen as doing right now, then ? am relative confident that most governments in the west would love any plausible excuse to reduce sanctions. however, they can't do so unless putin supplies an excuse. warning: link is sweary it works 'cause it is a movie. the tough guy takes every punch until the evil Lou (the west) finally gives up and leaves. however, tyler and putin ain't the same, mostly 'cause tyler had a plan. even so, the western economies got enough invested in russia that they don't wanna make russia collapse, but they can't stop until putin gives... something. *shrug* HA! Good Fun!