Gromnir

am noting sanders has been less visible as well. biden and sanders is in a difficult position 'cause at the moment, direct and overt criticism o' trump will be seen by many as petty opportunism. if you don't rally to support AMERICA in a time o' crisis, then you are unAmerican, yes? wisconsin, pennsylvania, north carolina, michigan, florida and a couple others, maybe, is battleground. nightly criticism o' trump, particular during the initial rally to the flag time after trump declares himself a wartime President, might not play well 'mongst moderates and independents in battleground states. as of april 8, the only issue which matters is covid-19. is not what should be but rather what is. fox and other conservative media outlets is working overtime in an attempt to gaslight and rewrite history. reason why is covid-19 will determine who is the next President in spite o' all the other issues which deserve considerable attention. like it or not, is nothing biden or sanders can do 'bout covid-19. trump is running 'gainst covid-19 and his own record o' incompetence in the early handling o' the pandemic. vaccine won't be distributed 'til after november elections, so covid-19 is gonna continue to be an issue. even if social distancing works and we diminish the impact o' the virus during next couple months, a possible second wave and threats o' a coronavirus resurgence in the fall means covid-19 stays relevant 'til election and beyond. terrible recognition o' a no-win situation. if, in spite o' trump bumbling and mendacity regarding covid-19 'nuff American voters agree trump did a good enough job during the initial crisis, then trump wins reelection. alternative is situation stays dire or gets worse making impossible for undecideds to vote trump. am not seeing a silver lining. HA! Good Fun!

the undercounting is a known problem. is not a hidden problem or a problem which is being systematic covered up as it is elsewheres... not yet at least. from a recent reuters article. "The city will now try to quantify how many of those died from coronavirus-related causes and add that to the its official death toll, New York’s health department said. "“People are dying outside the hospital, unfortunately. It happens every day,” Oren Barzilay, the president of the Local 2057 labor union representing city paramedics, said. “I think those numbers, those statistics in New York for deaths would significantly go up if they tested everyone that expired.”" am thinking is gonna be years 'fore we get a genuine accurate guess as to costs o' covid-19. during a crisis, particular one such as this which is outside the experience o' most persons, recordkeeping suffers. worse, 'cause o' initial fumble regarding testing, there just ain't enough resources to generate accurate numbers. will be folks from february and early march who were still being listed as pneumonia 'cause covid-19 weren't on the radar for too many health professionals. die alone in your home and become food for your cat for some number o' days is gonna make your covid-19 diagnosis less certain, yes? etc. and yeah, will be some folks who die o' covid-like symptoms who is added to tally improper to boost numbers. such cases will be smallish in number, but is gonna happen. is gonna be folks with late stage metastatic cancer who die of pneumonia and doctor needs decide whether to indicate cause o' death as covid-19 or not. there is gonna be errors in tally and many such errors will be innocent. if fed and state is clear fudging the numbers to make situation look better than it is, then we would be angry. pretend as if the current official numbers is very accurate, then am becoming discouraged as such obvious misleading nonsense is what you see from china and russia... and trump. "Somebody dies, I think they've been pretty accurate. The death counts, I think they are very, very accurate." don't believe it. as long as the government representatives is honest 'bout the shortcoming o' the cases/death tallies, am personal ok with the situation. obvious and intentional bs, on the other hand, is unacceptable. that said, most state-level actors we has heard from is cognizant o' the accounting problem and is admitting their failure to achieve true precision in case and death tallies. there should be a realization arguable accurate numbers is gonna be a matter o' rigorous scientific guesswork done perhaps years from today. the resources don't exist to do accurate counts at this time, and even if the resources were available, such accounting would be suspect 'cause o' the nature o' this crisis. however, anybody from government tells you otherwise, tells you the numbers is "very, very accurate," is probable lying. HA! Good Fun!

avarice is 4th hell, but no specific envy. HA! Good Fun!

2 quick observations: 1) sympathy for the devil modly and a few other former trump guys must needs be a bit confused. no doubt must come as a surprise when they get pilloried after saying and doing stuff which is identical to what their boss is doing and saying. 2) is this a nightmare for mattis and kelly? yeah, am willing to bet those guys heaved a great sigh o' relief when they were no longer forced to perform daily in the trump circus. nevertheless, they gotta wonder how things might be different today if they had managed to hold out and endure the constant indignities. is impossible to predict alternate realities, though is curiously lucrative for scifi authors to do so nowadays. am not suggesting we avoid current crisis if mattis and kelly is still part o' the trump administration, but is hard to imagine situation plays out same. is curious dante didn't mention pride when describing punishments in hell. HA! Good Fun!

Coronavirus response delayed despite health officials’ private alarm "“We are now well past the equivalent 5:45 moment at Mann Gulch,” Mecher wrote in his email Feb. 27, referring to the moment in a historic wildfire when responders realized too late that they needed to turn around. “You can’t outrun it.”" so much wasted time. HA! Good Fun!

the small business admin, which is overseeing $350 billion in loans made available by recent stimulus, informed congressional leaders they will not be enforcing limits on tax dollars going to organizations sole involved in religion. these administration goons ain't even pretending to follow the Constitution. HA! Good Good Fun!

regarding the roosevelt, is curious (not) how there has been no update to the number o' infected crew. more than a day ago we knew how with 40% o' crew tested, there were 155 infected. we do know near 2000 crew has been quarantined on guam and ship is being sanitized, but no updated numbers for infections. also, Navy Secretary apologizes after calling USS Roosevelt's fired captain 'stupid' "In a stunning reversal, Modly apologized to Crozier, his family and the Navy in a statement late Monday night. ""Let me be clear, I do not think Capt. Brett Crozier is naive or stupid," Modly said, according to the statement released by the Navy. "I think, and always believed him to be the opposite."" HA! Good Fun!

would be nice if you were right, but am believing you are wrong. need for ag use land is gonna remain relative constant regardless o' economic tragedies. residential rental property, much like during the recent recession, is gonna be in greater demand. ... to be blunt, a disproportionate number o' older americans is gonna die. those who have assets to leave behind to families will be enriching their children, and statistical, those children won't be needing much help compared to the average american. converse, far too many americans is gonna be suffering severe economic hardship-- those with the least will suffer the most. not a hunch: is gonna be many families who lose businesses and homes. simple is. people lose homes and they is gonna have much difficulty buying a new home for at least a couple years. that is a situation ripe for exploitation by the haves. is a fundamental misunderstanding that is pervasive regarding who is hurt when modern market catastrophes hit. sure, the wealthy take the biggest loss in terms o' total dollars 'cause o' their investment is larger, but such harm affects upper middle class and middle class who is perhaps overinvested in products which do not have fixed roi. the genuine wealthy is gonna lose many millions and billions o' dollars, but they is nevertheless gonna come out the other side o' this recent cataclysm with disposable income. we need make major changes to the economy 'cause as bad as were the recession, the covid fallout is gonna make income inequality far worse than it is today. modern day robber barons (and even folks like Gromnir if we had an urge to do so) will take advantage o' current tax breaks and fact they is particular well suited to buy property on the cheap and then rent to desperate folks. a few years pass and cheap property appreciates and the rich get richer. HA! Good Fun!

Read: Federal watchdog warns of 'severe' hospital shortages Government watchdog: Hospitals face severe shortages of medical gear, confusing guidance from government Ann Maxwell, assistant inspector general for HHS, said she was startled by what she heard from the hospital directors and the findings detailed in the report. "It is unprecedented," Maxwell said in an interview. "I think one moment that stands out for me is when I was talking to a hospital administrator and he told me that he had staff in the hospital out trying to procure masks and gloves from auto part shops, from home supply stores, from beauty salons, from art supply stores," Maxwell said. "I was just taken aback."

y'know, this is kinda misleading as it gives obama a whole lotta credit which he don't deserve. obama shut down bush 43's pandemic response efforts early in his administration and then obama had to resurrect such stuff. the actual playbook trump and obama were using, with few changes, were created by bush 43. National Strategy for Pandemic Preparedness and in spite o' fact many o' his constituents were 'gainst spending money to save folks suffering from aids, bush is the guy who championed President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief dr fauci has suggested that PEPFAR alone saved many millions o' lives worldwide and were the most significant health related action by any President... evar. nowadays even republicans who think bush weren't as bad as portrayed tend to think o' him as an embarrassment. however, when it comes to worldwide disease response, he is, and we shudder to say this, the gold standard for US Presidents. 'course the thing is, pre 9/11, bush did similar as obama and trump and actual reduced wh pandemic response resources, resources which his father were the one who started in earnest. clinton didn't do much to bolster pandemic response efforts, but he is the only President since bush 41 to not initial gut pandemic efforts of the previous administration. hurrah for bill clinton. ... am not posting/reposting to spam or to make this another covid-19 thread but rather to drive home notion that most recent US Presidents has dropped the ball when it comes to global disease efforts. is genuine amazing how they has each needed to overcome their own myopia before moving forward, though 'course trump degree o' ambivalence and obtuseness is admitted on a scale different than his predecessors. recognizing the pervasive pandemics blindspot our Presidents has shared, regardless o' party and in spite o' history, is the kinda thing which adds legitimacy to @Guard Dog otherwise lunatic fringe posts 'bout the evils and stupidity o' the government. HA! Good Fun!

‘Too Naive Or Too Stupid To Be CO’: Leaked Speech Transcript Shows Acting Navy Secretary Modly Trashing Fired Carrier Captain To Group Of Sailors "An anonymous Navy officer familiar with the situation told the Daily Caller that commanders immediately began to try and keep Modly’s speech from getting out. "“And the CAG (carrier air wing commander, the guy in charge of the aircraft on the carrier, an O-6) sent an email to the entire crew after the SECNAV was done saying ‘in order to publish a speech you need that person’s explicit permission and you don’t have the secant’s permission to publish what he just said, so if you recorded what he just said delete it immediately,'” the Navy officer said." *chuckle* am laughing at the CAG statement and not the situation. given the send off captain crozier received from his crew, modly speech were an odd tack to take. HA! Good Fun!

gd got us thinking. is ez for us to name our favorite movies, but such choices is gonna be familiar on many critical best lists, and where's the fun in that? three movies we like which we do not claim is great or even good. rosencrantz and guildenstern are dead is the film linked 'bove. am such a big beowulf fan, and has never been a particular good beowulf film. even with antonio banderas' insta language skills and other curious additions to the michael crichton book, we enjoyed the film. (cheat addition: tdkr is following beowulf surprise close) we also much approved o' the 2012 version. so a bit more than three. HA! Good Fun!

similar, until as late as march 17, mass shipments o' critical supplies were leaving the US on a daily basis. now keep in mind am understanding why some such foreign aid would be advisable as covid-19 is a global pandemic, however, there were a sharp change o' course in fed behavior in mid-march, which at least suggests awareness or situation changed. if trump were genuine aware from early january when he were first getting briefings, then why the sudden and abrupt changes in orders and shipments beginning in march? edit: Exclusive: The Military Knew Years Ago That a Coronavirus Was Coming "Denis Kaufman, who served as head of the Infectious Diseases and Countermeasures Division at the Defense Intelligence Agency from 2014 to 2017, stressed that US intelligence had been well-aware of the dangers of coronaviruses for years. (Kaufman retired from his decades-long career in the military in December of 2017.) "“The Intelligence Community has warned about the threat from highly pathogenic influenza viruses for two decades at least. They have warned about coronaviruses for at least five years,” Kaufman explained in an interview. "“There have been recent pronouncements that the coronavirus pandemic represents an intelligence failure…. it’s letting people who ignored intelligence warnings off the hook.”" am gonna concede we have not read the entire report, but will get to it. couldn't help but notice how the background portion were almost a recital o' the bush speech we shared a bit earlier in the thread. HA! Good Fun!

which would be a worthwhile observation if such were the only quarters available to passengers and crew on cruise ships during a freaking pandemic. unlike an aircraft carrier, passengers and crew on a cruise ship can be quartered so as to maintain social distancing to a much greater degree than an aircraft carrier. (genuine can't believe you are still arguing this point.) much like hotels, cruise ships rare face 100% occupancy. assuming ship captains would be idiots and not space out passengers and crew as much as possible as soon as dangers o' transmissibility tween persons became apparent is your hunch, yes? a cruise ship is a giant freaking floating hotel. the one thing it has in abundance is living quarters for gawd's sake. again, doubling o' infections on the roosevelt were progressing at a rate o' every two days for approximate ten days. assume even a mere 70% eventual infection rate for a novel virus and you are nevertheless hitting multiple thousand infected in another ten days. anticipate some kinda significant slowdown 'fore a majority o' the crew is infected is a hunch on #s part. aside: +30% o' enlisted men is smokers, far 'bove the national average. the military does need to step up their efforts to decrease smoking. and again cruise ship analogous to aircraft carrier is the worst coronavirus argument we seen outside a trump presser and/or fox. why you would keep plugging away at that point so tenacious is genuine baffling... and just be thankful we don't link the frozen song. more relevant Desperate for medical equipment, states encounter a beleaguered national stockpile "Anecdotally, there are wide differences, and they do not appear to follow discernible political or geographic lines. Democratic-leaning Massachusetts, which has had a serious outbreak in Boston, has received 17 percent of the protective gear it requested, according to state leaders. Maine requested a half-million N95 specialized protective masks and received 25,558 — about 5 percent of what it sought. The shipment delivered to Colorado — 49,000 N95 masks, 115,000 surgical masks and other supplies — would be “enough for only one full day of statewide operations,” Rep. Scott R. Tipton (R-Colo.) told the White House in a letter several days ago. "The Federal Emergency Management Agency inherited control of the stockpile barely a week ago from HHS. Lizzie Litzow, a FEMA spokeswoman, acknowledged the agency maintains a spreadsheet tracking each state’s request and shipments. Litzow declined repeated requests to release the details, saying the numbers are in flux. "Florida has been an exception in its dealings with the stockpile: The state submitted a request on March 11 for 430,000 surgical masks, 180,000 N95 respirators, 82,000 face shields and 238,000 gloves, among other supplies — and received a shipment with everything three days later, according to figures from the state’s Division of Emergency Management. It received an identical shipment on March 23, according to the division, and is awaiting a third." well, ok then. HA! Good Fun!

National Strategy for Pandemic Preparedness a decade before gate's ted talk. HA! Good Fun!

am willing to agree. can we add proactive to the list? not a demand, but a request. however, am gonna need put our foot down on "sammich." laugh if you will, but we died a bit the day sammich were added to the oed. HA! Good Fun!

maths tell us what the doubling rate in populations so far has been. given realities the roosevelt is nothing whatsoever like a cruise ship, is absence o' reason to doubt continued doubling at the current rate for at least immediate foreseeable future. constant forever? dunno, but only needs be constant 'til hits 4300 or so, which were only requiring 'bout same number o' doublings which had already taken place. extreme short period o' time. slowing rate is what woulda' required hunches. look, you made a terrible analogy to cruise ships. no reason not to own it and move forward. ~2:30 is where the nice lady gives you a tour of racks on an aircraft carrier. social distancing is the only effective countermeasure at this point in time, so... HA! Good Fun!

not a hunch. maths. do the maths. if is doubling from march 24 to april 4 every 2 days when captain crozier and crew were no doubt taking steps to slow the spread and racks don't make social distancing possible, then there is an inevitability 'bout spread 'cause o' the maths and is needing be willful obtuse not to foresee problems... 'cause is not a cruise ship. ok. HA! Good Fun!

... you don't have private rooms on an aircraft carrier. is literal no way to stay six feet apart in racks. whatever else it may be, and regardless o' marine ribbing 'bout their navy brethren, aircraft carriers is not cruise ships. the crew o' a cruise ship is a minority o' total number o' people on ship. virtual all you got on the aircraft carrier is crew and most is sharing living spaces which is at best, cramped and complete wrong for limiting a disease as easily transmissible as covid-19. am suspecting +90% infection on a naval warship is actual very likely. again, recognizing how would be functional impossible to quarantine when you already had +100 confirmed infections, double every 2 days and see where numbers take you. the numbers were doubling less than two days from march 24. notion the crew were gonna sudden get a handle on the covid-19 situation is improbable. also, surge is multiplying death rate o' covid-19. you think there is a shortage o' supplies and ventilators in ny, italian and spanish hospitals? once you hit thousands o' infections aboard the roosevelt, there woulda' been cataclysmic surge issues. aircraft carriers is having robust medical infrastructure nevertheless complete inappropriate for handling a widespread respiratory infection which has a considerable % o' infected require medical attention to recover. am thinking #s is much underestimating severity o' situation and a cruise ship comparison is complete misguided. make analogy just because both is ships? HA! Good Fun!

Inside the ouster of Capt. Brett Crozier excerpts "A half-dozen former top Navy officials said in interviews Saturday that Modly’s intervention was a mistake that they feared would have a chilling effect on commanders and encourage them to suppress bad news that might upset political leaders. "“I think the firing was a really bad decision, because it undermines the authority of the military commanders who are trying to take care of their troops, and significantly negatively impacts the willingness of commanders to speak truth to power,” said retired Adm. Mike Mullen, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, in an interview Saturday." ... "One of the surprising aspects of the Roosevelt drama is how closely Modly became involved in matters that would normally be handled by uniformed officers. Appointed undersecretary with White House support in 2017, Modly has been an aggressive communicator since becoming acting secretary in November, following the firing of Richard Spencer, who had clashed with Trump over the treatment of Navy SEAL Edward Gallagher. Modly has sent out 18 communiques, which he calls “Vectors,” to Navy personnel that mix command advice with folksy references to sports heroes includer pitcher Bob Feller and quarterback Tom Brady." ... "Modly told colleagues that before Crozier’s desperate memo surfaced, he had asked his chief of staff to call the Roosevelt’s captain and give him Modly’s personal cellphone number. Modly also pressed Adm. Michael Gilday, the chief of naval operations, on whether he had spoken to Crozier. Gilday apparently preferred to leave such communications to the normal chain of command. "By Wednesday, Modly told a colleague he was thinking of relieving Crozier and that Trump “wants him fired.” He was advised by several current and former colleagues, reportedly including Gilday, that such a dismissal would be unwise, and that the matter was best left to the military." ... "The matter came to a head Thursday. Esper, Milley and Gilday are said to have favored continuing the investigation. But Modly said he wanted to relieve Crozier immediately, and Esper said, “I’ll do what you want.” Gilday argued against the firing but was overruled by the civilians. Baker, the strike group commander, announced the firing later that day. "One retired four-star officer said he was worried about “undue command influence” by Modly. The acting secretary had the authority to sack Crozier but in doing so undermined the uniformed officers who normally oversee such personnel decisions. “This is much bigger than the CO of the Theodore Roosevelt,” he said. “We’ve been working for years to make our commanding officers feel free to speak out about problems.” That openness might now be quashed. "Crozier “was running up an SOS,” said Sean O’Keefe, who served as Navy secretary for George H.W. Bush. “It’s a judgment call, but you have to support the action of a deployed commander.” "Richard Danzig, who served as Navy secretary during the Clinton administration, told me: “If Capt. Crozier carelessly or intentionally jumped abruptly outside of military channels, then the Navy had good cause for removing him. But I doubt it was good judgment to rush to do it at this time.”" HA! Good Fun!

crozier hasn't necessarily lost confidence o' the navy. crozier command weren't removed by navy but by acting secretary of the navy. legal authority o' modly is suspect, period. an acting secretary o' the navy has no more legal authority to relieve command than does jared kushner. is also noteworthy modly replaced the previous secretary o' the navy who lost his job 'cause he public questioned trump inserting himself in an issue o' military discipline. when crozier appealed to chain o' command to take serious his concerns 'bout covid-19 infections aboard ship, there were three positive tests o' sailors aboard the roosevelt. modly's march 24 response to crozier concerns were to remove the three sailors testing positive and then to release a presser where he observed, "this is an example of our ability to keep our ships deployed at sea, underway even with active covid-19 cases." defense secretary mark esper noted situation were under control but that the navy would be sending more testing kits to the roosevelt... soon. crozier sends email on march 28. as of april 3, 100 sailors had tested positive. april 4, with 40% of crew tested, reveals 155 infected. were a 2-day doubling rate of known cases. add only a week to timeline and you got over 1,200 infected 'stead o' 155... and again, 155 is only 40% of the crew tested. replace a couple hundred sailors and get ship decontaminated and back to sea is a serious but not insurmountable task. if literal thousands o' crew were infected... am suspecting years from now, if crozier hadn't written his march 28 email, we would have books and movies vilifying crozier for his gross negligence. failure o' the roosevelt captain's leadership woulda' been arguable the most catastrophic avoidable event in navy history outside a time o' war. am dubious 'bout the contention the navy has lost confidence in crozier. am suspecting the admiralty is looking at situation very different from modly, esper and trump... and gd. we give our command officers a great deal o' individual responsibility. we expect captains o' aircraft carriers to make independent decisions. on its face, this looks as if captain crozier made the right call when faced with the intransigence o' the chain o' command. again, am ok with relieve command, but we would want a serious investigation to happen. yeah, no matter what am suspecting crozier's career is over, and he knew that on march 28 when he sent his email, but am suspecting the navy, the real navy, hasn't lost confidence in him anymore than did the sailors under his command. HA! Good Fun!

since 1812 it has been established law that, "no military or civil officer can command an inferior to violate the laws of his country; nor will such command excuse, much less justify the act. can it be for a moment pretended, that the general of an army, or the commander of a ship of war, can order one of his men to commit murder or felony? certainly not."-- the united states v. jones dereliction o' duty is defined as failure through negligence or obstinacy to perform one’s legal or moral duty to a reasonable expectation. chain o' command and following orders may be evidence o' such dereliction, but ironic, it ain't a defense. enlisted get some insulation from discipline for following orders which ain't obvious illegitimate, but is nevertheless unlawful or immoral. officers get no such benefit. the nuremberg defense, as it has been called in recent decades, may seem valid to many who have served, but it is actual not a legit defense. crozier couldn't rely on chain of command to insulate him from discipline. crozier would not be able to claim he were following orders if men under his command died unnecessarily. HA! Good Fun!

gonna ignore vol wackiness for the moment and make one final observation: am ok with crozier being relieved of duty. is not actual conflicting with what we stated 'bove. pending an investigation, captain crozier should be relieved as one o' the few certainties at this point is his mass emailing. however, if anybody is satisfied with crozier removal as the end o' the issue 'cause he done wrong, then am gonna argue forceful in dissent. got an unusual situation with extraordinary measures taken by the captain o' the roosevelt, and at first glance, crozier's actions would appear to have saved sailor lives as well as insuring the near future viability o' the roosevelt. HA! Good Fun!

specifically were not fired for going to the press. has been stated numerous times by navy brass there is no evidence crozier went to the press. and yeah, he went outside the chain o' command after informing those in the chain o' command produced no results in spite o' a clear and immediate danger to the lives o' his men. the captain knew he would face backlash, likely career ending, for doing what he did. rote recital "that is just not done" ignores asking question why the captain felt compelled to do as he did. given the command o' the roosevelt, crozier were clear being groomed for admiralty-- he knew standards and procedures at least as well as gd, no? so why take extraordinary measures? captain crozier made a choice. weighed his career 'gainst lives o' his men? fired may be legit, but am thinking somebody in the navy better ask more important why questions. fact trump is fixated on the paper trail is so missing the point. leaving evidence is what bothered trump. the President is well aware that any verbal communication may be denied and/or spun. clear written evidence makes gaslighting more problematic. *chuckle* 'course given trump previous shenanigans, he can't very well claim he were leaving the matter o' crozier discipline to the navy as the admiralty would be in best position to decide appropriate discipline for going outside the chain o' command. oh, and "that is just not done," is not a legal actionable, even in a military court. when the first sailor bodies were being stacked in the roosevelt's freezers, crozier's career woulda' been just as over as justifiable blame woulda' been placed with him as captain. what woulda' been his defense at the inevitable court martial? crozier took appropriate measures to inform those in his chain o' command and then followed orders? results woulda' been far worse for crozier if he had stayed quiet and just followed orders. navy and executive branch is not gonna wanna investigate this. too bad. HA! Good Fun! ps as of yesterday, 155 roosevelt sailors has tested positive with less than half the crew being tested. assume 200 actual infected as a low number. what is rate of doubling for a ship such as the roosevelt? in cities such as ny, after social distancing were implemented, rate is 3-4 days. am not an expert, but in cities where social distancing is implemented albeit poorly, doubling rate is 2 days. am thinking we can safe assume best case scenario for roosevelt doubling rate might be 2-3 days, and that is comical optimistic. wait a mere ten days from now woulda' seen +1500 infections and two weeks woulda' been near the entire ship. wait woulda' resulted in one o' the most notorious disasters in navy history and crozier would be blamed.