archangel979

Zenbane was trolling and only I was punished for responding to a troll. You are right, I am not going to leave but I am going to ignore trolls from now on.

Haha, devs deleted my other posts as well. Awesome. Have fun on nazi forum. if you noobs want talk without nazi mods come to Codex.

'Low effort' is not an opinion or a feeling, it is a statement about the work required to design a certain system. In this case you are simply wrong, it does not take less effort to design an elegant system than an 'interesting' one. It is not a feeling but it is surely an opinion just like everything you say as well.

a) Call of Duty sells a lot better than Baldur's Gate. Therefore, Call of Duty is strictly and objectively better game. Is that correct? There's a reason why argumentum ad populum is fallacious. b) Are you saying that an AAA mainstream RPG (Baldur's Gate) sold better and was a lot more popular than relatively small indie RPG (Pillars of Eternity)? Well... Yes. Yes, it did. It doesn't make it a better game, it just makes it a game which pioneered streamlining and simplification so it appeals to mainstream audience. Most of that audience moved on to other mainstream games and Pillars of Eternity is no longer an appealing concept to them. c) Pillars of Eternity outsold Enhanced Edition of Baldur's Gate, by quite a large margin, I have no idea where you got the information that it's the other way around. Not sure what sales figures were for the original Baldur's Gate back when it got released, but I'm pretty sure they were higher than those of PoE. a) Strawman b) Excuse. They not only promised quality of BG games, the promised a game of combined quality of all IE games. We didn't even get BG1EE quality. c) It sold more than 1 000 000 on all platforms.

I'm pretty sure that was a fabricated "best practice" spinoff that totally butchers real advice from real designers. Some better quotes: The idea that "interesting design is good" makes absolutely no sense, since someone who has no idea how to design anything at all can find even the most terrible of designs to be "interesting." In this context, the word "interesting" can simply be replaced with "ignorant" and the word "elegant" can be replaced with the word "quality." In which case we can see why that original advice was so terrible: "Quality design is a bad design choice, ignorant design is a good one." Also, some good links for Video Game design: "7 sins of bad video game design" https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2012/10/30/the-7-sins-of-bad-video-game-design/ "What makes a good game" http://serc.carleton.edu/introgeo/games/goodgame.html I seen that video, it is as clueless as you are. And you are pretty clueless for anyone that reads your discussions with Sensuki. (since you are calling me ignorant don't be surprised I return the favor). As for not designing anything, I don't need to I can just reference games with good and interesting design. Games that have withstood test of time and are even spawning KS campaigns based around them and now even getting a expansions. Games whose Enhanced Edition sells more copies that its Spiritual Successor while the original version also sold more AT the time of release when gamer population was much much less than today and there was no Steam and digital sales to allow ease of buying stuff to all over the world. You kid are idolizing false Gods. This game done properly could have and should have outsold BG games by a lot.

Not giving you 100% hit chance (which also isn't really true, you will practically always hit a paralyzed enemy in PoE) doesn't make a spell more 'interesting', just more powerfull, and no one can dispute that PoE spells are powerfull enough. No, it makes it mechanically different. It is used for different situation and gives different options. That makes it more interesting, not necessarily more powerful. MM in IE games does weak damage past a few levels but due to its other strengths it is often useful. Well that's a new one. I sort of wish I stopped reading right there. Elegant solutions are actually much more difficult than interesting solutions. Anyone can come up with an idea, but implementing it in such a way that it's balanced and interacts properly with the rest is far more difficult. Elegant does not mean interesting. Elegant means elegant. If I have to choose one, I always choose interesting. Spells in PoE are elegant but not very interesting. I already explained why, go read it again if your got problems understanding. And nobody is forcing you to read anything. Or reply. I don't care either way. I can call it whatever I want as it is my opinion and how I see it and feel about it. How about you dont' tell me how to express myself? IE games (and D&D) are proof of interesting design done well. PoE is proof of low effort boring spells.

Not that distant. Only real difference is that spell slots are flexible. You fill them with X spells and use up very limited (mental) energy to cast those slots. Yes it is a mix of wizard and sorcerer but it works well and feels very similar to older D&D, certainly more than 4e did.

Not very innovative? Please tell me of these innovative spells that other games were full off, especially games that came out within 5 years of IE games? Also you didn't need to get to super high levels to have access to cool spells, each spell level had a few that works very well on enemies for that level of adventurers. But I agree the best ones (Spell Sequencers and Contingency) were at higher levels. One of the best reason why these spells were good was that enemy used them and they used them well. In PoE enemy casters are more or less useless.

Spells are boring and strong in a boring way. Spells give noticeable debuffs to enemies and help finish combat faster in PoE but they are implemented in a bad way that makes them seem bad. In IE games you have Sleep, Hold Person or Horror. All 3 spells let you finish combat faster but it was not through just reducing some enemy defenses but through changing the battlefield. Closest PoE has at low levels is Knockdown. In IE you have Magic Missile which was your dependable spell, PoE has Missiles of magic that just give a bit more accuracy. Magic Missile in IE has multiple purpose: it always hit, it did force damage which almost nobody was immune to and it was cast fast and you could interrupt enemy casting with it. I did low damage as a negative but you always had most lvl 1 spell slots so you could have many of them . PoE magic Missiles do nothing else but what 10 other spells in PoE do. PoE is full of same spells with a bit different flavor that at best change around the amount of numbers they change on enemy defenses while in IE games spells had different mechanics and changed how the game played. Being blinded meant no longer being able to target single target spells, while being invisible meant none could target you directly. Mirror Image didn't just give some deflection bonus but actually changed mechanics and gave you a chance to hit the caster or image. PoE took easy way out with spells when compared with IE, it is low effort game and it shows. I hope they overhaul the spell system for PoE 2. 'Every other spell has it's own entire system' I not really very elegant design, and D&D rules except for 4th edition can best be described as a glorious mess. I think PoE in general strikes a good balance at beeing something between 4e and other editions of dnd (more so than 5e does). Sleep and Hold person also have equivalents other than spells that inflict prone. Stuck, Hobbled, Stunned, and Paralyze all do something other than lowering defenses or accuracy, as does Confusion, and Horror effects in IE were such a pain having to hunt down fleeing enemies I didn't think anyone used them. The thing magic missile does where it always does a little bit of damage can be done in PoE with any spell that does Raw damage. AD&D 2e (the system in the IE games) is not really a system like anyone would actually set out to design, it is a collection of disjointed mechanics accumulated over the lifespan of D&D. PoE on the other hand is a more consciously designed system were thought was put in beforehand into what kind of effects one would want in the system, supporting them in the mechanics, and then putting those effects under different spells, instead of over years comming up new spells with new effects and then inventing new mechanics for each of them. Elegant design is a bad design direction, interesting design is a good one. And PoE with its "elegant" design skipped on interesting design. 4e design also failed badly as a result of trying to make it "elegant". Although due to turn based, even that is better than what PoE has with the way 4e added Blooded and different movement abilities. Stuck, Hobbled and Stunned are not like Sleep or Horror. IE also had entangled and stunned as well. It also had paralyzed and charmed and dominated and suggested and confused. All were better than what PoE has mostly due to those that binded you basically gave you 100% hit chance which made those rare spell slots useful. You could also remove them all from affected ally while spells that give bonues and half duration vs Confused and Charmed in PoE don't work anymore on affected allies. More casualties of low effort (or not enough dev time which comes out the same). Raw damage means little if spells don't autohit, this is another of the victims of "elegant" design. MM being able to damage most creatures was only part of its uniqueness (and was cause for its low damage). Its being able to hit automatically gave it counterspells like Shield or Magic Sphere line of spells (well they protected vs whole levels but often MM suffered the most as being only low level spell that was useful in 95% of the game). I does not matter how one system became or another, the end result is all that matters and end result is way in favor of IE games. Also even newer versions of D&D spells are still better than what PoE has, D&D designers understood why those spells worked, what made them unique and interesting and what not to change.

Well it is more or less using Vancian magic from D&D 5e

Spells are boring and strong in a boring way. Spells give noticeable debuffs to enemies and help finish combat faster in PoE but they are implemented in a bad way that makes them seem bad. In IE games in early game you have Sleep, Hold Person or Horror. All 3 spells let you finish combat faster but it was not through just reducing some enemy defenses but through changing the battlefield. Closest PoE has at low levels is Knockdown. In IE you have Magic Missile which was your dependable spell, PoE has Missiles of magic that just give a bit more accuracy. Magic Missile in IE has multiple purpose: it always hit, it did force damage which almost nobody was immune to and it was cast fast and you could interrupt enemy casting with it. I did low damage as a negative but you always had most lvl 1 spell slots so you could have many of them . PoE magic Missiles do nothing else but what 10 other spells in PoE do. PoE is full of same spells with a bit different flavor that at best change around the amount of numbers they change on enemy defenses while in IE games spells had different mechanics and changed how the game played. Being blinded meant no longer being able to target single target spells, while being invisible meant none could target you directly. Mirror Image didn't just give some deflection bonus but actually changed mechanics and gave you a chance to hit the caster or image. PoE took easy way out with spells when compared with IE, it is low effort game and it shows. I hope they overhaul the spell system for PoE 2.

Which is totally not true. If it was true, everyone would have played with all caster parties in IE game and that was not happening. I did one all mage party play and it was slower than when having a mixed party.

There is nothing to let go. This system promotes different kind of gameplay. You might rest a lot, but I push on and use my available spells smartly. I hate systems that don't force me to conserve my resources. Using mana points or spell points that can only replenish when resting can also work that that usually causes design and balance problems where people spend them all on stronger spells and run out of points for any kind of spells faster while also making encounters easier due to having access to more stronger spells. In D&D Psionics use mana points and they always cause balance problems.

Fallout 4 is full of monkeys. You must like Fo4

He also counted way too many expansion sales and forgot out of those 750 000, 80 000 are backers.

They cannot even be compared. PoE is an actually RPG no matter what people think about its quality. Fo4 is just a Borderlands knockoff with Sims features added.

Ok, now im convinced youre playing a different game. They dont automatically shuffle behind enemies. They have a stun ability and you have to manually sidestep around your target then backstab them which I loved. And the speed of the rogues backstab animation increases along with attack speed. Backstabs do not take longer to execute than regular attacks. Did you know that you can make a strength based rogue, wear heavy armour and backstab with two handed weapons? And that two handed weapons have their own backstab animation? That play through was so much fun. Tthe last bit youre calling me a GFX whore... not really, I was quite happy with pillars graphics. Do I think Pillars would be improved with more varied animation for some of the special attacks and more diverse death animation besides "gibs". HELL YES. Video games are art. and art is all about the small details. You called yourself a GFX whore when you compared two games and said DAO has cool animations and BG2 has none.

Temple of Elemental Evil did.

I understand the point but it would be horribly hard to affect boss with debuff. CC are a bit a pb but debuff are OK. Especially because debuff are often the only way to affect them with attacks. It would make accuracy and defense too powerful IMHO and gap between accuracy and defense too hard to overcome. No, it would just mean you need to be ready to fight longer until the debuff you want works. Or that you MUST attack the weakest save instead of whatever like it is now. The solution to the fighters problem could be solved by having only attacks vs deflection having graze while other 3 only being crit/hit/miss

Magical ammo - sure. Companion fixes - whatever. Doesn't Pallegina get nice bonuses for being an Avian godlike? Remove disengagement - No. If anything, I want them to create disengagement zones rather than the status effect they use. (They didn't change it, did they?) Also properly implement polearms so they create huge disengagement zones. I like the focus on positioning in PE. Immunities - only when it adds to verisimilitude or characterization. Fire Blights should not be hurt by fire. I prefer hefty DR bonuses in most cases. A lot of explanations get super tedious. Combat only spells - needs to be carefully considered. BGII prebuff litanies were annoying. Mage duels - Hell no! While SCS added some interesting strategies (teleport field + melf's minute meteors was novel the first time you see it), mage fights got increasingly tedious as the levels went up. Battles took longer. There were actually less tactics as mages took an outsized importance. Dispel vs. contigency until a warrior inevitable drops the enemy in one hit was not terribly fun. Furthermore, there's something to be said for letting PE to continue developing its own niche and ideas. If you want another Baldur's Gate game, Beamdog will keep you supplied for decades to come. I said boring companions, not weak. Give them more quests and more interesting story. All companions should be at least Eder level if they cannot achieve Durance level. I use companions for what they bring to the story, if I cared for their power I would always use characters I create. Disengagement is crap. But if I will be able to remove it with mods I guess it can stay for people of weak strategic skills. Immunities are already implemented for creatures, I am talking about spells and abilities that players can use and so can enemy NPCs. Something that can change every battle vs humanoids as you don't know in advance what spells they have prepared so they might cast an immunity or something else and you need to change your tactics mid battle to accommodate. Prebuffing can be solved in 100 ways. Like marking some buffs with special variable and letting you only have one such buff per character. If you cast another one, the last one is removed. SCS + BG1 or BG2 without SCS is what I am talking about. That goes in combination with Immunities gained through spells or abilities that I talked about up. Beamdog will not be supplying us any more after the upcoming expansion for Bg1. They are moving to a new engine after that.

So all that is left from smaller things to improve PoE is to implement magical ammo of different kinds and to fix boring companions like the paladin and ranger chick. Then for PoE 2 remove disengagement, remove limitations on spells that can only be used in combat and create spells and abilities that also give immunities and that just being passive ability of creatures. Then we can have back cool spellcaster duels from BG2 (and BG1 with SCS mod).

I think Cali the Silent is the one in Caed Nua, I am talking about fire area south of Defiance Bay. Overall the encounter was not that tough but I remember it because I almost lost it in my first try, just like the Lighthouse battle. Losing battles is something that has not happened to me in PoE as the tactic Sensuki mentions and what I described worked too well. Adra Dragon is only truly hard encounter that I had to do 4 times until I finally beat it. Only other battle I had to reload was vs DeathKnight and Vampires when I returned to the Castle but only because of stupid mechanics of PoE where even with protection vs Charm you get grazed and Charmed all the time and you cannot cast the spell on the characters that are already affected to at least halve the duration. In comparison, in Bg1 and Bg2 I used to load a save due to losing even when playing it for 20th time. PoE is pathetic in both difficulty and basic mechanics (PotD enemies only getting better base numbers). And BG1 with SCS mod is truly awesome experience where any encounter with spellcasters becomes a fun challenge to overcome.

Your OP Sensuki is about what I experienced on Hard difficulty. Except I didn't open with spells but only with my rogue archer that would then run to back line (and suffer terrible combat pathfinding each time). I did open with spells vs some tougher bounty encounters. If I didn't use that, I used "everyone has a firearm as a secondary weapon" and starts combat by one shotting enemy casters. I had three fun encounters in the whole game, Adra Dragon, that mid size Dragon creature south of Defiance Bay (due to my characters being of probably lower level than expected) and the Lighthouse in Defiance bay (due to enemies spawning all around your party and there being so many of them). The fight vs that Dragon-like creature is only one where I used all spells I had and some potions and scrolls.

Oh my god, they actually go around each other now as opposed to stare into each other's eyes before giving up on this mind-bending puzzle of walking. The future is here! The pathfinding is still rather poor in both games tho. I agree on that. Personally I expected at least good pathfinding in PoE and what we got was my biggest disappointment.

I have been playing it for years and years again once BG1EE came out. During combat I need to micromanage my guys less. They generally go where I tell them and don't get stuck on everything. PoE pathfinding during combat is terrible.