Ludozee

Like I said, I believe in induvidual freedom up to a certain point. Having rocket launchers in one's basement obviously goes too far... No, the games itself are not a threat, the person who is influenced by the game and becomes violent is.

Don't patronize me an tell me to "STFU", thank you. I am entitled to have my own opinion, and I would like to make up my own mind about TSL. <_<

Games are a symptom? How do you mean that? Like, a symptom of a sick society?

True, something sould definately change, but it's too easy and naive to say "lets ban violence from games". The problem wouldn't be solved by just that.

Sell it on E-Bay or smash the discs. If you are that psychologically scarred by a bad game, get psychiatric help. See above. I agree with this, but it was stated that there was going to be no lLive support before the game was released, yet you still bought it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have to agree with your last point. It was very clear there wouldn't be any Live support.

Well, if people want to play it, who are we (or the governement for that matter) to stop them from doing so? I believe in individual freedom (up to a certain point of course) so I believe people should be able to do their own thing. And above that, better to suffocate someone in a game then in real life, right?

Yep, if I were him I would return it, and get a game that I do like. That would, IMO, be the smart thing to do

I think he can't hear you :ph34r:

1) Did I claim everyone that liked the game was a fanboy? 2) Don't tell me how to address people, you aren't my mother. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1) No, but you implied it. 2) I never told you how to adress people, I only said that (here it is) I think it really helps your cause if you adress people in a less offensive way.

To you, and the other guy crying about Mike being LA only. Please read this. You notice that Mike was considered a producer, and Chris said that he could always be trusted in interviews and information regarding this project. Chris talked about how he busted his ass to get things done and whatnot, for Obsidian. What he said, echos the feelings of Obsidian as far as I'm concerned, based on this interview. Queue fanboy rally. Have fun. **** **** **** **** **** Had I said that over and over, or pointed out all the horrible flaws in this game, you'd still be crying to your mother because someone doesn't like your game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You know, I think it's really easy to call everyone who liked the game a fanboy. Did it occur to you that some people actually did like the game? And furthermore, I think it really helps your cause if you adress people in a less offensive way.

I had exactly the same thing..Very confusing when you think you see Hades praising a game...

No, resolutions go here

Ahhh, the good old days of Goldeneye . IMO the second best N64 game (well, nothing beats Mario Kart ). I still remember playing Goldeneye multiplayer with a couple of friends for days and days... :cool:

I think developers do have some sense of honour to deliver a good game. I know if I were a developer I wouldn't like having my name connected to a POS.

Now don't hide behind a silly argument... Or do you know he's right and don't know how to respond? :ph34r:

Can't you just not read/respond to his posts if they annoy you? Putting him on your ignore list sounds a little whiny to me... The only reason you tell him that, is because you want to flame him/argue with him. If you really wanted to ignore him, you wouldn't tell him, you just would just ignore him... "

Chaotic good...

That what makes humans "better" then other monkeys is our extensive ability to learn. We can't thrust on instincts to survive in the modern day society. We have to learn to adapt to it, to learn it's values and rules. Those instincts are purely meant for personal survival, not for complex social group behaviour.

Yes, I know what you mean, but to what extent does that instinct work? A 4 year old hitting another 4 year old to take his candy because he wants it? A 4 year old doesn't know that that is wrong, and if no one corrects him, he'll probably end up as a spoiled POS who thinks he can do anything to anyone just because he feels like it. Ok, I exaggerated a bit to clarify my point, but you know what I mean, right?

But then again: If you were never tought to be responsible for your own actions, how are you to blame?

Edit: @ Rosbjerg I was talking about responsibility in general. I'm pretty darn sure there is a connection between violence on TV and in games and violence in real life. It hardens society and, like you said above, creates indifference. But you can't blame a game for being violent, nor can you blame a drunken, stoned teenager for (accidentally) killing someone in a fight. It all starts with the education and your morality and responsibility tought by the parents. Everything you stated boils down to the moral standards you have learned when you were young. Mind you, I'm not solely blaming parents, because in some situations (divoce, broken families e.g.) it's not possible to create a solid environment for children to grow up. But school plays a big part in it too. If I see how bad the situation is on some schools overhere (teacher shot by 16 year old with gun), teachers threatened, other children threatened) I know something has to change. I don't know if you've ever heard of a so called "waldorf" school, but I think that schooltype is the only kind of school in Holland who takes their responsibilty for a childs education.

Let me give you a nice example of that. My aunt lives in Scotland, and she works for the town of Ayr. She was held responsible when a five year old kid drowned in a pond. The people overthere said that the pond was town property, and if the pond wouldn't have been there, the kid wouldn't have drowned. So they filled the pond with sand to make sure nobody could drown there again! That is too ridiculous for words! At least in Holland people would say that the parents should have watched their child, and besides that, every 5 year old child in Holland can swim (or at least float)...

Yeah, but a game or an movie itself can't be blamed, it's the one who plays/watches it that is influenced by violence and an adult person is always responsible for his own actions. In case of children, it's the parents who are responsible. And to blame such a thing on society is hypocrite. We all are the society, so we all are responsible, but we blame it on society as if it's not our fault. We use it as an excuse to deny our responsibilities.

I sometimes have a blackout when I'm sitting behind my PC for hours. When I get up for a smoke/bathroom/drink break, suddenly I get tunnelvision and then everything goes black before my eyes and I can't seem to find my balance. Then I have to stand still for a minute to let my vision and balance return to normal. I think this has to do with the fact that too much blood is drained from the brain, because it has to fill the bloodless places you sat on.

Didn't this happen in England this summer? This kid had murdered another kid and the press blamed it on the game "Manhunt", which the kid turned out to play frequently? I think violence is allowed in games, just as long as it is clearly stated on the cover of the game that it contains violent scenes. IMO, it's ridiculous from parents, press and governement to blame violent behaviour of children on videogames. First of all: parents are responsible for what their kids play. They should make sure their children stay away from violence, and if they don't, they fail as parents IMO. Second: Stores should make sure that children who are to young for certain games can't buy violent games. The least they can do is check their age, so only adults should be able to purchase the game. The governement shouldn't interfere withs these issues. It's ridiculous if a governement decides what I am allowed to play and what not. Look at Larry: Magna **** Laude for instance: Forbidden in Australia. Look at C&C Generals: Forbidden in Germany. This a kind of governement censorship which is ridiculous anno 2004 (well, 2005). Parents should take the responsibility for what their children play, not the governement. Btw: WTF? Magna C um Laude?