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You're comparing a monk built to offtank to a rogue built to DPS. a.k.a. apples and oranges I know what modifiers the rogue is capable of (+1 might on a human beats out the Orlan's crit passive and -2 penalty to might, btw, and thats ignoring the human's own passive), but the monk actually has a higher ceiling. This requires that the monk take enough continuous damage to spam Rooting Pain, have 10 stacks of Turning Wheel, keep Swift Strikes up at all times, and to wield Purgatory, Resolution, and Blood Testament. The rogue and monk have similar DPS talents, so I won't mention them. Also, if the monk can take enough damage to spam Torment's Reach on every attack and still maintain 10 stacks of Turning Wheel, their DPS becomes otherwordly. Easier said than done, though. You'd need a dedicated healer and some friendly fire spells like Antipathetic Field, Ray of Fire, Wall of Fire, etc. Would make for an interesting party. Your monk's gonna offtank nil in PotD. Perhaps I built mine incorrectly, perhaps it's just too early in the game (L5), but my PotD monk offtanks not a thing. I do see your point about a full blown DPS build though, but I've never tried it for fear of the shear amount of babysitting required. 10 stacks at all times, that's gotta require healing left and right. Regarding Orlan vs Human : - Orlans get -1 to might, so the end difference is 2 - Your human gets +6% overall damage from might - My Orlan gets +10% crit chance and, since I've built him that way (Tall Grass), 10% more chance to knock a target prone, 10% chance to set up his own SAs, 10% chance to proc Deathblows if the target is flanked, which is easy enough. I like mine better since it brings more CC and frees up the team to focus elsewhere, but then it's a matter of viewpoint, you certainly are free to play as you like.

I was wrong .. Got to actually test it .. Transcendent Suffering adds set amount of damage but NOT to base damage .. Monk fist base damage always remains 10-15 ( .. Lvl 10 monk with 20 might (30% damage bonus) (10*1.3 + 8 )- (15*1.3+8 ) aka 21 - 27.5 NOT (10+8 )*1.3 - (15+8 )*1.3 aka 23.4 - 29.9 Huge disappointment Monk fists have the same attack speed as fast speed weapons, but do slightly better damage than average speed weapons (except for sabers), they may not be as OP as you were imagining, but they're still good. Monk fists are situational. They hold up fine against low DR targets, but fall super hard against armored opponents. Your 21-27 damage will actually hit for 6-12 after 15 DR. Given the sheer amount of monsters in fights on PotD, that's gonna take a while. Find below the number of hits you'll need, obviously discounting misses, grazes, and the odd crit. Forest Lurker 8 DR 327 HP : 13-19 damage per hit, 18-26 hits Forest Troll 5 DR 237 HP : 16-22 damage per hit, 11-15 hits Pwgra 15 DR 134 HP : 6-12 damage per hit, 12-23 hits And these, are very low class monsters which you'll fight at levels 3-5, not at level 10. The biggest pack I encountered on the Woodend Plains with my L5 Monk was 7 Pwgras, 3 Forest Trolls. That's a grand total of 117-206 hits (with a L10 monk, certainly not with a L5) worth of HP + DR, discounting the natural regen of trolls, and the barkskin from pwgras. This mode's difficulty is so high that every character has to pull their weigh, and tbh monks don't imo :| Try vulnerable attack. I see your point, but unless I'm mistaken that's a -20% attack speed so, you'll need less hits, but it'll take more time to land them. I'm not even sure it'll make a difference in the end. Someone wanna do the math ?

Ok so I've taken the time to do a bit more theorycrafting and this is what I've come up with. If someone thinks my math is in error, kindly correct. If someone knows how the crit damage modifiers are applied (base damage, or end damage after other mods ?), kindly correct. Tall grass has 18-26 base damage (and costs 12k, your best investment in the whole game for a 2H rogue). It's exceptional, crits inflict prone, and converts 10% hits into crits. A hit benefits from : MODAL: 20% modifier from Reckless Assault MODAL: 20% modifier from Savage Attack ENCHANT: 30% modifier from Exceptional ENCHANT: 25% additional damage from a Lash STATS: 30% from 20 might (you can get 21 from +3 might gloves but let's keep things easy) PASSIVE: 50% damage from being a Sneak Attack, or you're doing it wrong PASSIVE: 50% extra damage on your SA because you took Deathblows like a good rogue PASSIVE: 15% modifier from 2handed spec Total: 20 + 20 + 30 + 25 + 30 + 50 + 50 + 15 = 240% A hit deals BD + (BD * modifiers) damage, or BD * (1 + (modifiers)) In our case the modifiers total 240% or an additional 2.40 BD damage, a regular hit therefore deals 340% of the weapon's base value. Thus discounting DR, a regular hit with Tall Grass deals : 61-88 damage A crit, which a Hearth Orlan has (10% natural + 20% vicious fighting + 10% Tall Grass) 40% chance of landing, also gains : PASSIVE: 50% crit modifier just for being a crit PASSIVE: 30% crit modifier from house doemenel , after all you made a rogue , that's the only faction that's worth Now that is the part where I'm unsure how the game computes the final numbers. Either these modifiers are added to the other list of modifiers, or our previous end damage gets multiplied by our crit mods. Case 1 : 240% + 50% + 30% = 320% , so a crit will deal BD + 320%BD or 420% BD damage Case 2 : (240% * 180%) = 430% , so a crit will deal BD + 430%BD or 530% BD damage Case 1 damage is : 18-26 => 75-109 Case 2 damage is : 18-26 => 95-138 Edit: the ingame Cyclopedia states "a crit increases the total damage done by 50%", so I'd be inclined to go with case 2. Lategame, add an extra 15% when your weapon becomes Superb, and 25 flat damage from Kana's Flaming Weapons. Here as well, I'm unsure how the Chanter's flaming weapons damage is computed: +25 flat ? +25%, like a Lash ? These findings look consistent with my current L7 rogue, who landed a 84 damage crit with : - 18 might - no Deathblows - no 2H spec Thoughts ? On a side note, Tall Grass is borderline game breaking with the Prone proc, I literally prone-locked a Drake on the Warchief bounty in Valewood.

No offense but, as you state yourself, you're comparing melee and ranged, a.k.a apples and oranges. A well-built, melee rogue has the following damage modifiers : - savage attack: 1.2x - reckless assault: 1.2x - 2h spec, or DW spec: 1.15x or +20% speed (so basically 1.2x) - sneak attack: 1.5x - deathblows: 1.5x - 40% hit->crit conversion: 0.6x (1.5x from crit, times 40% occurences) (10% orlan, 20% vicious fighting, 10% crit weapon) - 20 or 21 might: 1.3x - exceptional weapons : 1.3x - burning lash : +1.25x Give him Tall Grass from Dyrford Village and he'll wreck faces (not to mention you're going to knock opponents prone more than your monk does). Obviously you will have to help your melee rogue with afflictions, but you're already doing that for your ranged rogue to qualify for SAs. Of course, and as you wisely point out, there's the matter of survivability, but once you get Tall Grass your dueling potential skyrockets.

I was wrong .. Got to actually test it .. Transcendent Suffering adds set amount of damage but NOT to base damage .. Monk fist base damage always remains 10-15 ( .. Lvl 10 monk with 20 might (30% damage bonus) (10*1.3 + 8 )- (15*1.3+8 ) aka 21 - 27.5 NOT (10+8 )*1.3 - (15+8 )*1.3 aka 23.4 - 29.9 Huge disappointment Monk fists have the same attack speed as fast speed weapons, but do slightly better damage than average speed weapons (except for sabers), they may not be as OP as you were imagining, but they're still good. Monk fists are situational. They hold up fine against low DR targets, but fall super hard against armored opponents. Your 21-27 damage will actually hit for 6-12 after 15 DR. Given the sheer amount of monsters in fights on PotD, that's gonna take a while. Find below the number of hits you'll need, obviously discounting misses, grazes, and the odd crit. Forest Lurker 8 DR 327 HP : 13-19 damage per hit, 18-26 hits Forest Troll 5 DR 237 HP : 16-22 damage per hit, 11-15 hits Pwgra 15 DR 134 HP : 6-12 damage per hit, 12-23 hits And these, are very low class monsters which you'll fight at levels 3-5, not at level 10. The biggest pack I encountered on the Woodend Plains with my L5 Monk was 7 Pwgras, 3 Forest Trolls. That's a grand total of 117-206 hits (with a L10 monk, certainly not with a L5) worth of HP + DR, discounting the natural regen of trolls, and the barkskin from pwgras. This mode's difficulty is so high that every character has to pull their weigh, and tbh monks don't imo :|

Yeah, OSA is definitely not working as intended. While rogue does more single target dps (especially at low levels when the 1.5 sneak attack bonus matters more), barb's carnage can't be ignored and is a more interesting mechanic than just more single target dps -- but that's subjective I suppose. Even the cipher can get a 1.4 multiplier at the cost of a talent. The way those damage modifiers work, they have less total effect as you stack them higher (they all work off base damage, as they should). If rogue's sneak attack was its own separate multiplier, the class would have something there. The class already has something there, you're forgetting the synergy between its talents, and possibly even race if you went that way : - hearth orlan : +10% crit - dirty fighting : +10% crit - vicious fighting : +10% crit - sneak attack : +50% damage - deathblows : +50% damage again, seeing it doubles your SA damage when attacking a target w/ 2 afflictions - house doemenel talent : +30% crit mult - reckless assault : +20% melee damage - savage attack : +20% melee damage Let's work under the assumption that you're wielding a standard 2-handers with a range of 14-20 damage, hereafter written "BD" for Base Damage. Unless my math is wrong : - sneak attack : BD + (BD * (0.5 + 0.5 + 0.2 + 0.2)) = BD + (BD * 1.4) = 34-48 damage , on a regular hit - crit SA : BD + (BD * (0.5 + 0.5 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.3 + 0.5)) = BD + (BD * 2.2) = 45-64 damage , on a crit , discounting other crit multiplier bonii Not sure crit modifiers are applied this way, they might be applied to your end damage after all the other modifiers are factored in. Make the same crit with 20 might (+30% damage), which is achievable mid-game with +3 might gear : - crit SA : (BD * 1.3) + ((BD * 1.3) * 2.2) = 58-83 And that, is using a regular weapon, you can get 25% more from a Lash, and 45% more from Superb. You can also get +0.5 crit mult by using battle axes (that, or just +15% damage from 2-handed spec). You can get an additional 0.1 crit mult if you side with the Looters, at some point during Act 3. You can, if you want to push it, factor in Kana's fire chant +25 flat burn damage. You can also get +8 might from a priest (I believe that's not cumulative with the +3 from gear though) for an extra ((8-3) * 3)% Oh and if you really, really are going for style points, you can even factor in +25% from a Slaying enchant. I think there's even a +0.5 crit mult 2-handers in Dyrford Village, so you could get +15% from 2-handed spec and the +50% crit mult. While they're additive, that's still a lot of modifiers, and on a class/race combo with +30% natural crit chance, and a very high accuracy. At this point, even the Master Below's DR won't last very long (although I still have to meet him on PotD). As for barb AOE vs rogue single target damage, that is a matter of viewpoint. Keep in mind that 5 monsters at 20% hp still hit like they're at 100% hp. I for one would much rather have 2-3 full hp monsters remaining, than 5 at 23% and still mauling the tank.

That's situational. Your Hunting Bow will let you get more sneak attacks off before your debuff expires on the target. Your War Bow will punch through DR a little bit easier because it has a higher damage range, although do not hold your breath for sneak attacks from the stun proc, if it's anything like the Phantom stun proc, it's much too short. Alternatively and if you're facing high DR opponents, the Hold Wall x-bow from the smith in Gilded Vale has a prone proc.

IDK, while that is valid from a mechanic viewpoint, it seems entirely counter-intuitive, not to mention it completely kills realism. Whoever ever heard, in a fantasy setting, "Quick, let's pelt our friend to near death so he can be useful !" ? That sounds... broken by design. Perhaps there should be an additional way for Monks to generate wounds, and I'm not talking about the lousy per rest ability. Of course this ability is quite acceptable if you rest after every fight, but then again, was that really the intended use case, with camping supplies being limited ? That's a fair criticism. I won't argue that it isn't counter intuitive. I will say that the class is counter intuitive in many respects, but I don't view that as bad. Most fantasy settings (particularly video games) don't have a mechanic that makes you want your character to be damaged. I personally find the idea fun since it isn't something that has really been done before. There are also a handful of broken mechanics in the game. Some of the Barbarian Carnage silliness comes to mind. I see this concept as a pretty legit myself, but it is what it is. Also, it gives synergy that any class can take advantage of. Also, to argue a point based on the setting, the Monks in Pillars seem to be a kind of mix of Asian Monks (like those in D&D) and European Monks that would practice flagellantion. The Monks that practiced flagellantion believed that the pain somewhat absolved them of sin. In PoE it is because it "strengthened the soul and helped prevent fragmentation." Similar, but different. IF the Monks of Eora believe they are strengthened by pain... do they care who causes that pain? If those were my beliefs I may not care one way or the other. The per rest Wound generating ability is indeed garbage, though. IMHO it should be gained for free at a low level (level 3ish), and not cost an ability point. Either that or it should be 1 per rest. Perhaps both. Just to give the numbers for the idea I am talking about to quantify it better... I was out of the house earlier, but here it is. I am using Aloth in my Monk playthrough on hard. I haven't jumped into PotD, yet. I won't comment for or against the Monk's abilities as a whole in PotD. I understand the issues people have with them there though. I still think the issue of removing Accuracy from Perception, and probably removing Damage Threshold from the game as well, are the root cause of these issues on that difficulty. Because these classes were designed with that Accuracy and DT in mind. Aloth's current Thrust of Tattered Veils does 18-30 damage (with his current Might at present). My Monk's Rooting Pain does 12-18 with 16 Might (I haven't gotten a +Might item yet). My Monk's attack damage is 18-24 for each hand. I also have Lesser Wounds. The party is level 9+ atm. If Aloth hits my Monk for 24 damage with 1 ToTV then I generate 3 wounds. That should give me 3 procs of Rooting Pain (It may only go off once, but IMHO it is still a better use) + 3 Torment's Reach. Torment's Reach also debuffing anyone with the AoE for -2 Might, and if Crits occur then I have Enervating Blows to Weaken them as well. So, IMHO it is a better use of ToTV than hitting 1 enemy with the spell. Oh do not mistake me, I very much agree with you : From an entertainment value viewpoint, it is very refreshing to see new classes and mechanics (ciphers' focus, monks' wounds, chanters' phrases). From a mechanic and logic viewpoint, it makes complete sense to dump some damage on your monk to get extra wounds (or just trigger disengagement hits) to fuel his abilities. However, and that is the root of my... skeptical view on monks : These mechanics are very immersion unfriendly, nobody ever mauled their friend so he could go berserk on the enemies. 'matter of fact, that would be quite the other way around, toggle berserk on your barbarian, guy becomes frenzied and hits pretty much anyone in range, friend or foe. From a balance viewpoint -and keeping in mind that within my own scale of values every class should be PotD worthy- monks are lackluster. Yes, as stated by @cavemandiary monks have very high accuracy, but that doesn't matter in PotD where you won't hit a thing, even when they're flanked, unless they're under a Paralyze debuff. And the worst is, you first have to surpass the enemy's deflection, and if you somehow manage to get past that one barrier, you still have to vanquish their fortitude to get them prone/knocked back. I understand very well that this is true for the other CC classes, but they (Ciphers, Druids, Wizs) : - have AOE CC, whereas monks have single target CC - can stand safely in the backline, while monks have to go head on Do not get me wrong, I very much love monks in normal/hard, it's just that they're not cut out for PotD in my opinion. Of course we've been derailing this thread towards monk love/hate, but I suppose rangers don't shine overmuch in PotD either, even though they're standing sound and safe with the rest of the backline. Could also be that Sagani has given me the impression that rangers really really suck lizard eggs , and if you get where that reference is from, you win a free high five.

IDK, while that is valid from a mechanic viewpoint, it seems entirely counter-intuitive, not to mention it completely kills realism. Whoever ever heard, in a fantasy setting, "Quick, let's pelt our friend to near death so he can be useful !" ? That sounds... broken by design. Perhaps there should be an additional way for Monks to generate wounds, and I'm not talking about the lousy per rest ability. Of course this ability is quite acceptable if you rest after every fight, but then again, was that really the intended use case, with camping supplies being limited ?

There's no need for PoTD elitism. That mode is in itself broken, as it's usually the case when you make hard mode by simply inflating the stats. Then the balance is completely off and many skills and playstyles become pointless. So let's talk about Hard (possibly ironman) balance. And if 6-man hard is too easy let's talk about 5-man hard or 4-man hard - it doesn't matter. My first impression of a monk (first several levels) is that it's underpowered, fragile, and requires too much micromanagement. Now, I'm not giving up on a monk yet (although I rage-remove it from the party after 2 minutes every time I try him), and will try it with leech weapon which I did not have before. If leech doesn't help enough then the class is useless because "taking others down with me" is not a successful tactic. My current party can win most battles without a scratch so why do I need a monk? People say he does a lot of damage. I have a few problems with that claim: 1. Dps monk is a liability, and you don't want that in ironman mode. Non dps monk is for my party worse than other tanks. I still remember when I played PotD how FoA ability never pushed any enemy that was actually dangerous - it only worked on weak useless enemies (and that's when it actually managed to hit of course). In Hard I hoped that would work better but let's say that the whole wound + maybe hit + maybe pushed combo did not work well for me so far and I quickly lost patience. 2. Monk dps may do a lot of damage in ideal circumstances but if he gets hit hard then what? He's dead and useless or has to run back and do autoattacks. And if he doesn't get hit no wounds. 3. Monk requires a lot of micromanagement which is a stat in itself. 4. It has no synergy with the rest of the party. True, neither do some other classes but then again I don't use these other classes either. My experience with the monk goes like this: Phase 1: Battle started and I've no Wounds.. argh Phase 2: Argh I got hit! 1/3 hp/end down. Oh look, Wounds! Phase 3: FoA.. yeah.. finally some action. (a moment later) *missed* ..ffs.. Phase 4: Argh another hit! 2/3 hp/end down. Evacuate! Oh wait can't because of disengagement mechanic. Phase 5: Fight to the death! Phase 6. Death. And that, my good sir, is my point exactly. People keep coming over here saying "I'm playing [class] on easy and it's awesome!" , 'course it's awesome you tool... Monks in Hard are OK but require a lot of micro, and while I saw a "monk enervating blows + rogue" post, I should point out that this requires a custom party, thus forfeiting the banter and quests from the included NPCs. Now and regarding PotD, of course it introduces imbalance and of course it's imperfect, very much like Heart Of Fury was for IWD and IWD2, where a lousy goblin could gib one of your casters, and wouldn't go down from a max DC horrid wilting. But that's the ultimate challenge of the game, one would argue, and it makes sense to consider a class' worthiness with regards to a PotD party. From my experience : - Cipher, mandatory, for the spammable single-target lifesaver CC - Druid, recommended, for the large AOE CC and Sneak Attack tagging - Fighter, mandatory, for the frontline - Priest, mandatory, to keep your fighter alive and bolster your backline's defense and offense - Rogue, very very much recommended, to get past that pesky DR That leaves you with the one open spot, which should go to a Chanter for the spammable summons. My PotD Monk doesn't shine very much, he keeps missing, he can't take hits like a Fighter, he has no regen, he can't CC correctly... I liked my Normal Monk very much, I hate my PotD. No need to start calling people "tools" and I disagree with you pretty much on everything. PoTD isn't the end all be all difficulty to judge if a class is worthy. It's a mode for masochists to get their hardcore jollies. It's not balanced and it's not the normal way to play the game the way the developers intended it, hard mode was. It is your right to disagree, and have your own point of view; mine differs in every way, obviously. Regarding the Tool appellation, I believe it is more than justified. It's like someone next to you shouting "I'd rather command a tank than throw rocks at my enemy !" , why thank you very much for this deeply insightful comment Captain Obvious. While YMMV, I for one consider these people as tools, simple as that. Regarding PotD not being the end all be all, that is subjective, it is for me, just like building the ultimate party for HoF was. By the way and I just can't resist this little jab before leaving : no need to start calling people "masochists"

On hard my monk consistently outputs more than any other class I've played, without excessive knockouts. I don't use things I consider broken so that statement doesn't count certain barb builds, but it does include ciphers because I always use them, though usually for control. Some people I guess are just going to keep theorycrafting about how bad monks are until they get buffed, then they'll be OP, people will realize they were great in the first place, and they'll get nerfed as a result. I'm not really looking forward to the process tbh. Give monk a try for a full playthrough, and you'll realize he's just fine how he is. Just a hint, don't build him as a tank or a glass cannon. Try dual sabers + torment's reach if you really want something fun. So we're talking about a class whose defining trait is the use of their fists, you recommend dual sabers for their damage, and nothing strikes you as awfully wrong ? You may want to rethink it through -.-

Dug into the game files and am able to definitely confirm that : - Spell Striking procs on crit, 1/encounter - Spell Holding procs on being crit, 1/encounter And yes, the mechanics behind these should be in the Cyclopedia (to not disrupt the Lore-friendliness of item descriptions).

Even in PotD the 10% sees little use. The talent really is worth very little (PotD) to absolutely nothing (other game modes) -.- This needs a rework, but then Rogues are in a pretty good shape (if one disregards stealth/backstab being entirely broken and their funniest skills being on stupid 2/rest cooldowns) so I'm not holding my breath.

There's no need for PoTD elitism. That mode is in itself broken, as it's usually the case when you make hard mode by simply inflating the stats. Then the balance is completely off and many skills and playstyles become pointless. So let's talk about Hard (possibly ironman) balance. And if 6-man hard is too easy let's talk about 5-man hard or 4-man hard - it doesn't matter. My first impression of a monk (first several levels) is that it's underpowered, fragile, and requires too much micromanagement. Now, I'm not giving up on a monk yet (although I rage-remove it from the party after 2 minutes every time I try him), and will try it with leech weapon which I did not have before. If leech doesn't help enough then the class is useless because "taking others down with me" is not a successful tactic. My current party can win most battles without a scratch so why do I need a monk? People say he does a lot of damage. I have a few problems with that claim: 1. Dps monk is a liability, and you don't want that in ironman mode. Non dps monk is for my party worse than other tanks. I still remember when I played PotD how FoA ability never pushed any enemy that was actually dangerous - it only worked on weak useless enemies (and that's when it actually managed to hit of course). In Hard I hoped that would work better but let's say that the whole wound + maybe hit + maybe pushed combo did not work well for me so far and I quickly lost patience. 2. Monk dps may do a lot of damage in ideal circumstances but if he gets hit hard then what? He's dead and useless or has to run back and do autoattacks. And if he doesn't get hit no wounds. 3. Monk requires a lot of micromanagement which is a stat in itself. 4. It has no synergy with the rest of the party. True, neither do some other classes but then again I don't use these other classes either. My experience with the monk goes like this: Phase 1: Battle started and I've no Wounds.. argh Phase 2: Argh I got hit! 1/3 hp/end down. Oh look, Wounds! Phase 3: FoA.. yeah.. finally some action. (a moment later) *missed* ..ffs.. Phase 4: Argh another hit! 2/3 hp/end down. Evacuate! Oh wait can't because of disengagement mechanic. Phase 5: Fight to the death! Phase 6. Death. And that, my good sir, is my point exactly. People keep coming over here saying "I'm playing [class] on easy and it's awesome!" , 'course it's awesome you tool... Monks in Hard are OK but require a lot of micro, and while I saw a "monk enervating blows + rogue" post, I should point out that this requires a custom party, thus forfeiting the banter and quests from the included NPCs. Now and regarding PotD, of course it introduces imbalance and of course it's imperfect, very much like Heart Of Fury was for IWD and IWD2, where a lousy goblin could gib one of your casters, and wouldn't go down from a max DC horrid wilting. But that's the ultimate challenge of the game, one would argue, and it makes sense to consider a class' worthiness with regards to a PotD party. From my experience : - Cipher, mandatory, for the spammable single-target lifesaver CC - Druid, recommended, for the large AOE CC and Sneak Attack tagging - Fighter, mandatory, for the frontline - Priest, mandatory, to keep your fighter alive and bolster your backline's defense and offense - Rogue, very very much recommended, to get past that pesky DR That leaves you with the one open spot, which should go to a Chanter for the spammable summons. My PotD Monk doesn't shine very much, he keeps missing, he can't take hits like a Fighter, he has no regen, he can't CC correctly... I liked my Normal Monk very much, I hate my PotD.

Yeah, OSA is definitely not working as intended. While rogue does more single target dps (especially at low levels when the 1.5 sneak attack bonus matters more), barb's carnage can't be ignored and is a more interesting mechanic than just more single target dps -- but that's subjective I suppose. Even the cipher can get a 1.4 multiplier at the cost of a talent. The way those damage modifiers work, they have less total effect as you stack them higher (they all work off base damage, as they should). If rogue's sneak attack was its own separate multiplier, the class would have something there. What doesn't work with One Stands Alone ? I don't have a Barb and the wiki is awfully outdated. Describe : - what it's supposed to do - what it actually does I might be able to patch it, I'm currently trying to edit a few abilities and items and will be able to test them out after work. From the game files, I'm getting : - 2 more enemies required to flank you (so 4 total) - 20% (or is it a flat +20 ? it doesn't say) melee damage bonus when engaged by 2+ enemies

The point of using a rogue is to get past these huge DRs in PotD with the Sneak Attack and Deathblows bonii. I cannot talk for everybody, but I for one, am entirely unconcerned with easy/normal/hard modes, only PotD effectiveness and efficiency matter.

Yes it does, and yes it is, and that's the reason I suggested on page 2 that people look into 2-handed builds for rogues. There's also a sword in Dyrford that offers a 0.5 crit damage boost which would have very good synergy. I'm currently testing out a 2-handed rogue in PotD.

Ok so I dug into the game files and was able to view the ability in Unity : - Bonus Hit To Crit Percent enemy Below 10Percent : 20 - Bonus Crit Hit Multiplier enemy Below 10Percent : 0.5 So here are the answers : - the enemy has to be < 10% - the 50% crit damage addition applies only to enemies under 10%, but apparently it applies to all crits, not only those that got converted Before someone asks, no, I cannot patch this to be < 25% , I've checked and there's no trigger condition for values other than 10%.

And just what is the Sky Dragon going to fight for you, exactly ? Besides you obviously haven't seen how long debuffs last on PotD. Your build is OK, just not for end-game bosses is all.

High DR doesn't reduce a 100+ fire breath attack enough. I'm sure you can down groups of your average mooks with it but that's not the real test of a build. Anybody can build a cheesy retaliate+drain tank for that purpose. A rogue is better for skipping the things such a build can't handle as well, if the purpose is solo. This build's reflex saves are too damned dire even with high DRs. This build doesn't add much to a party composition that any old cipher can't already. Odd Hermit - you are wrong. Sorry. But true. I'm playing this build (Moon race though) and doing it solo and it is destroying everything. Try any old cipher solo and see how you fare...... I think you are being obstinate and refusing to admit that you jumped the gun too quick in refuting this build. It rocks. I HIGHLY recommend this for someone who wants to solo. On normal it is more than doable. @revjwh And I, think you're not playing on PotD, so you should stop trash-talking Odd Hermit. Any class, race, and build, works in Normal. @OP your reflex saves are too low. Sure you can gib groups of lower monsters, but how will you fare against the 3 dragons on PotD ? not so very well Cons aside, an interesting build, could use some tweaking though.

Yet another post where someone says how amazing their monk is; yet another post that fails to mention what difficulty this is on. As for your "more than twice the damage" statement, any character, when micro-ed, does more damage than the others. No offense. My rogue had 100k on hard when he finally hit level 12, which was more than the rest of the team combined. Damage numbers mean nothing, some characters contribute something other than raw damage (tanking, CC, buffing, healing...)

You're playing < PotD , anything is absolutely great < PotD. My own monk melted faces on Normal and could frontline like a baws while my backline just stood there and watched. Then you hit PotD, get up against 70 def enemies with 18 DR, against your level 3 monk. And that's where you realize your awesome stunning punches just don't connect 8/10 times, and your Force of Anguish consistently fails to knock enemies prone. On top of that, your unarmed attacks now deal 3-6 damage per hit, while lions crit you for 40+. In the meantime, 3 mobs got past your tank and are now mauling your backline, you're out of stunning punches, your FoA missed but at least you're still on 7/10 endurance. You get crit for 60 damage and drop to 2/10 endurance + 7 wounds. You dump them all in more FoAs which miss superbly. You press F8. Edit : for reference, find below the stats of my level 5 monk on PotD Combat: 23 hours Enemies defeated: 147 Damage dealt: 13.3k Damage taken: 4.2k Highest single target hit: 55 Crits: 73 Hits: 647 Encounters are a real nightmare though, requiring a rest after 2-3 fights, sometimes even after just the one big fight (pack of 7 pwgras / 3 trolls). Stats for the early monsters I've encounted on PotD: Monster: deflection, fortitude, reflex, will, DR Forest Lurker: 51 91 61 63 8 Phantom: 75 60 76 79 8 Pwgra: 61 68 52 56 15 Phantoms can stun, sneak attack, and get 75 deflection. Short of using CC (like paralyze) to reduce its deflection, you're not going to hit that at levels 3-5.

@Ichthyic On what difficulty is that ? 'cause on PotD I'm seeing huge defense stats for enemies and I'm getting nowhere near 7k damage at level 4.

Ok this is gonna sound stupid but you wouldn't happen to be using boots of speed ? Chars with boots of speed are incredibly fast while sneaking, I suspect the modifiers are not applied in the correct order. Correct order: - (base speed + movement bonus) / stealth penalty Suspected order: - (base speed / stealth penalty) + movement bonus

Amen to that.