Objulen

I personally liked Kreia challenging conventional Star Wars morality, but for different reasons. Star Wars is a dualistic system, and like the standard LotR D&D world, it is very black and white, good and evil, etc. Shades of grey are few and far between -- in the system, X is right and Y is wrong because Z says so. All one need do is follow the advice of Yoda and your moral integrity is ensured. Such system, while interesting when structured well and origionally (unlike most D&D systems, but Star Wars is alright) are very limited and don't reflect reality well (and the best fantasy/sci-fi is a metaphor for real life). I can cleave through 1000+ foes with a Light Saber, but using a single lightning bolt is evil? Pushing someone with the Force to damage them is wrong, but what about pushing them to save them (say if some random Force user had conveintly pushed the twi'lek off the trap grating in Return of the Jedi before she fell into the rancor pit), even if it deal damage? Some of these question may seem stupid, but it points at the general flaw of Romantic stories and settings -- they lack moral and ethical deapth. In the standard, table top RPG Star Wars setting, if a generator needs a charge to power up, using Force Lighting is evil, even if it saves a slew of people. Real life is never that simple, and alot of times an action has consequences that can be seen as both good and evil; few things are ever completely one-sided in real life. That's why I loved Kreia's dialog in TSL -- it brought up the other side of the coin, the "big picture", as it were.

It's good to see people interested in this, but what I'm talking about is official Obsidian support. They obviously have software tools and a greater understanding of the game and the cut content than anyone else. I hope an Obsidian official will respond; a mod will probably be made, with or without Obsidian's help, but their assistance will have several benefits for both sides.

I understand your point about putting another version together that answers the questions that some people have voiced on the forums and articles about the game. I wish I could say that we plan to do that and that we will be able to go back and fill in the story where people felt it fell flat. Unforunately, we are still a new business and we just don't have the money to do it. Plus, I don't think that it's currently a priority with LucasArts. Like with most games, they are onto their next priority and our producer at LucasArts is working 60 hours a week on another game already. What I can tell you is that we learned a lot about making games as a smaller developer with KotOR2 and are going to use that knowledge on our future games. We already included our own QA team in with the budget of NWN2 and if we get to do KotOR3 then we will do the same there. For what its worth I do apoligize for the disappointment that you have over the game, Feargus Urquhart CEO Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

Sorry for the multiple posts, everyone. There was an SQL error that lead me to believe this wasn't posting.

Content was cut from KotOR II: TSL. Alot of people flamed Obsidian, putting them on the diffensive, understandably enough, and things have gome downhill from there. The forums are possibly going to be closed. A more constructive solution would be better for all parties, in my opinion, because this sort of acrimonous interaction solves nothing. Obsidian will still be flamed, and the cut ending content will remain only so many sound files, and the community will remain unsatisfied. What I call for is a cesation of hostilities, and both parties working together to help restore this content. What's done is done -- it's water under the bridge. Material was cut, and whoever is responsible, it happened. Obsidian is a small company, and doesn't have the time or money to implement it. It's understandable, if the result is undesirable to all parties involved. There is an untapped resource, in the form of the modding community, that, in collaberation with Obsidian, could concievably restore this content, which I imagine both Obsidian and the community would love, with a significantly reduced, if not nearly eliminated, investment of time and probably no direct investment of money on the part of Obisidan. The mod team, which several individuals are already attempting to put together, and if successful will undoubtably proceed with or without official sanction, would recieve assistance both in the storyline, scripting, and possibly software tools. If Obsidian and the community work together, everyone wins. Obsidian gains more acceptance with their fans, and has content they origionally planned to implement restored. The community recieves an improved game and a more satisfying experiance. All parites have much to gain by working together to restore the cut ending content, and nothing to lose.

If this is pressure from LA designed to remove the Cut Ending Content thread, then why not just create it another high-profile forum of the appropriate type? The Gamespy forum, etc.

While I am not a Lawyer, I don't believe this is BioWare IP. Bioware's role with the original Knights of The Old Republic was as a developer. Star Wars is the Intellectual Property of Lucas Entertainment (in one form or another) Bioware's role in the production of Knights of The Old Republic II, as I understand it, was merely being a consultant to Obsidian Entertainment. I believe the question over the legalities of a user-made mod ultimately rest with LucasCorp. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoever has the technical rights to TSL, Obsidian definantly has the info that would be integrated into the mod unless they got rid of it for some reason. As for the issue of IP rights, I don't see why they would be a problem. A mod team doing most of the work is making a mod to restore content that would make the game better. LA does nothing but give Obsidian a green light, Obsidian doesn't invest an incredible amount of effort, and the mod team gets information and other help for a mod that they would make without that help anyway. I can't see a reason not to officially support the mod. Everyone wins; nobody loses.

Since Aurora is trying to put togther a mod team to reimplement the cut content, maybe Obsidian could officially support the mod with info, dev notes, maybe software tools, etc.? It seems like a good idea to me. What would you say, Aurora, this is your project, in a large part, so your input (assuming Obsidian would/could go along with something like this) would be appreciated.

Actually, whether or not your X-Box is a poor man's PC depends totally on your willingness to mod it. I know and have seen X-Boxes that ran linux and had several standard PC apps running in them. Nothing like office software, but things that you wouldn't generally find on the average console.

OS options, perhaps? I don't know much on the subject, but can't X-Boxes use linux (does that require modding?), so I don't see why it couldn't be applied that way. If it does require modding to use linux, maybe it could be done by modding the patch.

If module information from the X-box can be easily imported into PC (i.e. the HK-50 plant; is it a 1:1, or was extraction used?), then I don't see why it would be a problem.

Something to ask would be if Obsidian is interesting in helping the modding community to restore the cut ending content. They could officially back such a mod and give information on what they intended the ending to be, perhaps even give some more advance development tools to help it along.

I fail to see how it would be a sign of weakness. Further, I fail to see why Obsidian would worry more about the industry than the consumers. Their competitors aren't helping them to pay the bills, after all. If they released the origional intended ending it would: 1) Restore faith among those who lost it after discovering what happened 2) Make them more popular among those who don't mind it that much 3) It's optional, so those people who don't like it don't have to use it 4) The worst that can happen is some people won't care. Releasing a finished ending, or officially supporting a modding project to restore the ending, is a win-win situation all around.

Was that really evil? They had it coming by demanding money you never owed them in the first place! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 'Course it was evil. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Don't you know? You can carve a path of bloody destruction through an entire army with a light saber, but if you use one lightning bolt or convince your foes to shoot themselves, then you are eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil.

And if Revan was male, it's Bastilla, female, it's Carth. You don't recognize them in either case. But yes, this is a continuity hole, but it can be explained away as Force enduced understanding that's a temporary part of the vision, or simply that you learn about Bastilla as you gain experiance (since there is a level requirement for the tomb).

The only official canon are Episode I - VI and, from what I understand, KotOR I (maybe TSL also, but I haven't seen anything about that being canon as well). The books aren't BS, but they aren't set in stone either -- everything in them is subject to change as Lucas sees fit.

Mediclorians are the stupidest thing that even happened to Star Wars, and Episode I was filled with several bad setting ideas: immaculate conception, mediclorians, Jar-Jar Binks. As for the Force itself, I agree with Helton to a degree. I see it more as the ebb and flow of all life, and like the tides, isn't good or evil. Of course, that's not the stance the movies take -- they present the Force as a stark dualistic system, with one side clearly being defined as evil, and the other good in grand LotR fasion. It works for movies, but as the books show, it becomes limited, quickly, in other media.

I'll wait until episode III comes out to form an opinion.

Force Sex? I guess that's how George Lucas decided to explain away Anakin in his Jesus-syndrom moments . Seriously, though, I found the romance to be overall low-key. The "naked" fighting was barely alluded to, and I didn't really find anything sexual in the scene with Visas when the two of you were looking at each other through the Force. It's a lovely kodac moment in a Disney sort of way, but that's about it. Heck, no one even kisses in this game. BG II had much better developed romance options (though one sided). If we really want to talk about decent romances in a KotOR game, then we're going to have to wait for the day when the green light gets flashed on a more mature game and LA figures out that you can have intimate, tasteful (i.e. PG-13) romance scenes by fading to black at the proper moments.

Actually, if you play the game as a female and go through conversations with Disciple, you learn that . The Jedi Masters would have

There's Atton as well. None of the romances in TSL are terribly well developed, though they do add to the game. If you want to talk about well developed, one-sided romance options, check out BGII.

Fools. In coddling their weakness you only make them ripe for the fall. Is it the purpose of the Jedi to make their subjects dependant on them?

I liked the DS options much better in TSL; it was less thugish, and wasn't so psycopathic-I'm-a-meglomaniac-trying-to-take-over-the-world, especially considering that in KotOR 1 you killed almost all your friends if they didn't, "KNEEL!". Sheesh. Just because you are evil doesn't mean you are a cookie-cutter villian, and TSL didn't pass you off as one. My only disappointment, really, was that several of the DS options involved you shooting yourself in the foot to various degrees, such as wanting to end a threat to the galaxy that wishes to kill you (the Sith) and ultimatly destroy the seat of your power (the Force), and gaining LS points for it, but this is inevitable in video game no matter what for the most part, given the limits of AI.

I respected the two other than Atris and Vrook -- they could at least admit that they might have been wrong, and weren't sanctimonius bastards. At least, I did until the end when the decided to cut me off from the Force in their "infinite" wisdom. Then I didn't really care much for them

The Jedi Masters, in many ways, embody the hypocracy that Atton speaks of. I feel that "falling to the light" is a very apt description -- they have become so engrossed by their code that they have lost touch with their humanity, and fail to see the big picture. They consider themselves above normal people, though they don't realize it or believe it themselves, especially Vrook -- he embodies the arrogant, self-rightous, condemnetory Jedi Master. In the end, trying to cut the Exile from the Force is self-defeating, since the Exile's emptyiness is what allows her/him to . Further, as you see with the scenes with Disciple, . So, while the Jedi Masters are superficially justified in what they are trying to do, they lose sight of the big picture. They adheare to a code when it will make that code pointless by staying out of the Mandalorian Wars. In trying to shield others from the revelations of knowledge, they earn the distrust of others. In condemning emotion and passion, they cut themselves off from average people. And thus they fall, with whatever the Exile leaves behind taking their place; a new Sith, really Sith only in name and trappings, different from the True Sith, or a redeemed Jedi order.