Qistina

i. Templar don't need lyrium - This means normal people actually can be trained to repel magic Templar need lyrium - Because lyrium is "magic in it's raw form", no normal people can cast magic unless drinking this stuff So Templar need or don't need lyrium to fight against magic? ii. Darkspawn taint everything they touch, look at Dragon Age intro, but not proven in game play and story whatsoever iii. Since everything is only in one year, how come Anders be in Kirkwal? How long he being in Kirkwal? How long Cullen being in Kirkwal? Suddenly everyone who was recorvered in the Blight being in Kirkwal... iv. So everyone just forgot that a Mage who save everyone life by defeating the Blight. It have no effect on sentiment toward Mages around the world. The world don't change v. To the world who ruled by the Church, the discovery or destruction of their prophet tomb don't give any difference. In our secular world today, if someone found anything related to Jesus every Christians could go crazy, if anyone want to destroy a mosque, every Muslims go nut....but in Dragon Age it's only show someone sell fake Andraste Ash or not, that's all that makes a different vi. I relate with 9/11, what happen in USA does it making the whole world going to war? Does it make all Muslims fighting USA? No? It is because New York is just a city in USA. And we have internet and TV. In Dragon Age there's no interet or TV that may spark some sentiment and propagandas. So what happen in Krikwal is just an alienated case. Some may heard about it but just that. It will not spark Mage rebelion throughout the world, or every Templar in the world going crazy. How many are Mages and Templars exactly to spark a world wide war? vii. What i mean is, Darkspawn still a threat even after the Blight, but Grey Warden are still picky. Not all who going through the Joining will survive, they are short of recruits, and they have problems. just recruit anyone who can and drive out Darkspawn already. viii. That is my point, everyone can drink the tainted blood and if survive, then deliver the final blow on Archdemon. No need an army of Grey Warden. Only need ONE, the one who deliver the final blow on Archdemon. ix. The Chantry is so strict about Blood Magic, they ban Blood Magic, they hate Blood Magic, but there are Blood Magic books in the Circle where every Mages can read, and that lead to Jowan and Uldred rebellion.... x. Lithany of Andralla is just a quest item. No one know about it other than Nial, Owen and Wynne. If you are a mage, you don't know about it either. The Templar run away and lock everyone up because they cannot handle Blood Mages who appear in the Circle (in which they all read Blood Magic books from the library). So for a very looooong time the Chantry is bicthing about Blood Magic, they don't even care about teaching everyone Lithanny of Andralla???

Like i said only political party love to play racism card sometimes, but the people are not. You have to come here and see your self how we live everyday The problem of Malaysian politic is complicated, it is because of the definition of "Malaysia", this country only existed after WW2. And so we have a country called "malaysia" but what is Malaysia? The Malays is the original population derived from the old Malay kingdoms, the non-malays was brought by British into Malaya as slave and workers in their estates. "Malaysia" is a federation consist of kingdoms of Malays combined. So as a country called "Malaysia" everyone are citizen of Malaysia, but reality is everyone are citizen of the kingdoms, "Malaysian" is just on paper We have 9 kings....imagine that...and so politic is...no word to describe. And so the non-Malays are actually citizen of "Malaysia", they are not realy the citizen of Malay Kingdoms...understand? It was the British set up making it like that. As "Malaysian" sure they should have all the right as the citizen the same with Malays, but the Malays are citizen of the Kings in the Kingdoms....that is what the non-Malays always forgot Malaysia is a federation, and so we have central government and state governments, not all Malaysians today even realize this. I don't know how long my country politic is like this...we'll see...

The game is not about Archdemon, you need to kill the Archdemon to end the Blight and ending the game, but the whole game is not about the Archdemon at all. The whole game is about you roaming Ferelden solving everyone problem and making romances. I don't say Dragon Age is a total bad game, i enjoy it as much as everyone, but it doesn't mean it is a good game. I can say KotOR 2 is the best game i have played ever. If KotOr 2 is not rushed, it will burry all other games in the past and present. Like i mentioned before...there must be a key on making RPG story, not just stories being piled up and you play. lets look at KotOR 2...you are the Exile Jedi, you learned about your nature, your past, the threat you must handle, the nature of the threat, finding answers, you learned about being you in the world Even Skyrim story is suck actually but still following the key of RPG story, you are the last Dragonborn, you learn about your nature, you learn about the nature of the threat you must handle, you learn about your enemy and so on...you learn about who you are in the world Dragon Age don't have the strong basis story, DA:O is about whatever it is about, DA2 is about Hawke the nobody in the middle of Mage-Templar conflict, DA:I is about secret society who suddenly appear and meddling with everyone business In DA:O - you are of any origin, new recruit of Grey Warden who assume the role of being Grey Warden, above the law In DA2 - you are Hawke, somehow you become big boss in the city and no one can question you of what you are doing, above the law In Da:I - you are a member of surviving Illuminati who suddenly become big boss, above the law In DA:O it is still fine because you are a Grey Warden during the Blight, you can do everything you want because of that, "I am a Grey warden, i can do everything i want!", but don't forget that you know NOTHING about being Grey Warden, you and Alistair lost contact with the rest of the Grey Wardens...so what role are you playing actually? In DA2, you are Hawke, a nobody, you can do everything you want because you are Hawke...this is the WEAKEST character to role play with. What authrority Hawke have? He/she an imigrant, freely roaming around the city doing things, killing peoples, and no one give a damn about. Worse if Hawke is a Mage in the city full of Templar walking around. Hawke is a criminal....And so Hawke become a Champion...does that make Hawke have a super authority on top of everyone? The premise of this story is weak Dragon Age is ruined already

Is it really normal that people don't date other races or is it the fact you live in a conservative country that says its normal and you have convinced yourself that's the way it is? I'm not attacking you, I want to understand your perspective Well, i am schooled with Malays, Chinese, Indian, Sikh, Sabahan, Sarawakian, Muslims, Christians, Buddhist, Hindus...and what not...so it's normal My country have 60% Muslim 40% non-Muslim, 55% Malays 45% non-Malays...so figure it out We have mixed marriages as well non-mixed marriages. Racism is too little here, almost none, only political party love to play racist card sometimes, but the people don't

i laughed reading.... My country is multiracial, we have Malay, Chinese, Indian, indegenious, ect...if a girl/boy don't like any of the races to become her/his boyfriend/girlfriend, it is not racist. It's normal Why would someone want to force someone to like a person by using racism issue? It doesn't work that way

Remember the part where the archdemon was a dragon? Oh yeah, remember how the dragon you saw on Skyrim is the Imperial heraldry/TES logo and not indicative of the game's content? I was going to ask what fallacious logic led to this conclusion but then I remembered you said you "debated this to death" on BSN, which explains pretty much everything. Pillars of Eternity is a game about souls, why aren't you angrily complaining that it's false advertising? Archdemon is not a dragon per se, so it discounted, the game is NOT about the Archdemon anyway. Do you study aboput Archdemon nature, weaknesses, habitat, movement ect ect? No? You kill him in the end like killing any other monsters, no need for special knowledge to kill him, no need for special strategy whatsoever. Because Archdemon is just a monster designed as final boss you don't have to worry about for the entire game As i remember Oblivion logo is the Oblivion gate....even if the dragon logo is the Imperial logo, Imperial emperors was Dragonborns until Martin Septim dead, so it is not shocking they use the dragon symbol. In any how the cover tell you it is about Dragonborn and Dragon in Skyrim, the story is clear, the plot is clear In Skyrim, you are the last Dragonborn, you learn your nature, you learn the nature of the dragons, you learn the background of your new home now, you learn what the problem is about then solve it In Dragon Age, you don't know who you are and what your role, you only assume your role, get into someone else business, you don't know the nature of the threat, and suddenly become a hero...

Whatever, anyway Dragon Age premise is inconsistent, that is a bad for a long run. Some of inconsistncies i. Alistair said templar don't really need Lyrium to develop their skill, proven when the Warden learn the skill. In DA2, no one can be a Templar without lyrium, but Hawke can be a Templar by no visible means ii. Darkspawn taint everything, destroy everything their touch or by their presence. only Grey Warden immune to the taint, becuase they are tainted already. But no one in the party got tainted fighting Darkspawn, no one in the army visibly got tainted, by means nobody got tainted. In DA2, only Hawke sibling and Aveline husband got tainted by Darkspawn, out of sudden, because the plot say so. iii. The Blight ended in 1 year according to DA2, so the warden gathering army, preparing an army, roaming around Ferelden, civil wars, having romance, ruling Ferelden as a queen, gone missing....is only in 1 year..... iv. Let assume the Warden is a Mage, everybody in the world know a Mage who save the world from utter destruction....but only Ferelden refugess are mage friendly, Kirkwalers people hate Mage to the bone.... v. Let say, The Warden save/destroy the most important ruin, the tomb of an old prophet of Andraste religion....nothing happen in the world for 7 years...it's insignificant in the world ruled by the Church... vi. Kirkwal is just a town/city, but eventually the conflict between Templar and Mages effect the WHOLE WORLD....how many are Mages and Templars exactly? vii. Grey Warden is needed to battle the Darkspawn, but being a Grey Warden is not a charity, but no one can kill an Archdemon other than Grey Warden, but you must be exceptional person to become Grey Warden, but but but...set up your priority man! viii. The Joining of becoming Grey Warden need Archdemon blood, but since only Grey Warden can kill the Archdemon, how the first Grey Warden come into being? ix. Blood magic can only be learned by commune with demon, but Jowan and Uldred learn blood magic from books in the library, in the Circle Tower which guarded by Templars and Chantry rule... x. Lithany of Andralla can prevent blood magic dominion...they locked it up in the store in the Circle Tower of Ferelden....and no one ever learn about it...no one ever know about it...after defeating Uldred using it, no one ever study further to use it against similar threat in the future.....

It's like X Men : Origin, see? So Dragon Age : Origin implying it is the origin of Dragon Age, by means origin of dragons....

Lets look again at the title "Dragon Age : Origin", by look at the title what do we expect? What i expect when looking at the cover are i. this game must be about dragons ii. this game is an intro of a bigger conflict regarding dragons because of the "origin" iii. this game is about the origin of dragons in the age of dragon But the game is nothing like what i expected Look at TES: Skyrim, i play Oblivion so i know a bit this and that about The Elder Scroll world. So in TES:Skyrim, just by looking at the cover i know it is about Skyrim...what Skyrim is about? Look at the dragon symbol, so it must be about DRAGON. So yes, it's true, it's about the return of a Dragonborn and the dragons in Skyrim In Dragon Age you started as anyone of any origin, then join a warrior order, then your master dead, you don't know anything about the order, you only assume your role. Then roaming over Ferelden solving everyone problem, then kill the big boss, the war end. The main threat is not the focus at all. You didn't investigate the threat, the nature of the threat, what the threat is about yadda yadda yadda...you just roam the land to unite everyone to against the threat, but the game is NOT about the threat at all... You go to Circle Tower to solve their problem. You go to redcliffe, to solve their problem. You go to Orzamar, to solve their political problem. You go to brecilian Forest to solve their werewolf problem....what about the threat? What about the Blight? What about Archdemon? Don't care, we will kill Archdemon in the end because the plot say so. How to kill Archdemon? No one tell you. Riordan who appear at the end game only tell you that "only Grey Warden can kill Archdemon", why? because the tainted blood will trap Archdemon soul and you dead. By means that is the only reason why you become Grey Warden, that is to be sacrificed in the end. So anyone actually can drink the tainted blood and deliver the killing blow.....no need for a military order of "Grey Warden". As we can see the character and Alistair are the only Grey Warden in the land now, everyone else are not, the whole army you gather are not, they didn't tainted by Darkspawn.... So what the story is about? Dragons? Grey Wardens? Darkspawn? Thedas politic? In DA2, the story is about Mage vs Templar conflict......and DA:I is assumed about Illuminati save the day....

For dice roll games it is fine about level up, because it is all dice roll. If there's no level up, it will become lame because you stick with the same thing for hours. You don't feel your character become stronger or weaker but need to become stronger But for FPS games, i still love level up, but like in Jedi Academy, you do quest you can level up your force powers of your choice, neutral force powers automatically level up. I can say Jedi Academy is the finest in level up system for FPS. Then we have to look if it is open world like Skytim, story driven but still have liberty to move or like Diablo 2 map. Each of these determine which level up system is suitable or not. For Diablo 2 it is easier because you move from one map to another, but for Oblivion/Skyrim and KotOR/Dragon Age it is dificult.

In KotOR - darkside female Revan have to kill Carth while darkside male Revan can rule the galaxy with Bastila In Dragon Age, -Female Cousland must allow Alistair to have sex with Morrigan before can become the queen. But Male Cousland can have sex with Morrigan and then become the king married with Anora -non human female will be dumped by Alistair in the end -the only alternative romanceable male is a bisexual assasin elf -female dwarf don't have own species to romance with -Female dwarf noble got dumped by Gorim just in few weeks(?) while male dwraf noble can have sex with some female dwarf and having baby In Dragon Age 2 - Anders is a bisexual super whiny Templar hating abomination terrorist - Fenris is a bisexual super whiny Mage hating weird tattooed freak elf slave So yeah...

Let say i make a novel, titled "Tiger Age", surely i will direct the story toward tigers, why it is called "Tiger Age", there's a lot of tigers and tigers are significant in the story or else i will not give the title "TIGER AGE" The game started with your origin whatever it is, then battle of Ostagar, you don't see any dragon, you only hear about Archdemon from few characters, you know Archdemon is a dragon from Alistair if you talk to him. And that's it. That is the only reference about a dragon in Dragon Age game. As you progress in the game, you got dreams or vission of a dragon the Archdemon, the thing just "huuaaarghh huuuarrgghh!!!", but the whole thing you do is nothing related to the dragon. Then you stumble upon a dragon in a temple ruin, you kill it or leave it alone, does it give any significant? If you kill it you get loots, if leave it you get nothing. Then reaching the end, there's cutscenes about dragon flying around, a guy backstab the dragon and fall...and at last you kill the dragon heroicly...the end. So what the story is about? Ok you can say the story is a bout a guy/girl become a Grey Warden, unite the land to against the Blight and kill the Archdemon. But does that a conclusion of the story? What is the damn Archdemon, a dragon or what? No answer. Where the darkspawn come from? No answer. Does Mages really to blame creating the Blight? No answer. There are too many questions that have no answer even in Dragon Age 2. The game didn't give you anything about Grey Warden either and it's not about Grey Warden. You playing a character who assume a Grey Warden role. Alistair the one who supposed to be your guide about being Grey Warden don't know about Grey Warden because he's only being recruited for 6 month. Riordan the senior Grey Warden you only meet at the end game and then he died. So what the player is playing actually? It is like someone who just recruited to become a cop, then something happen all cops dead, so he/she just assume how a cop should behave....just kill anything moving in Dragon Age 2 you play as a nobody who suddenly become a noble, then get into some mess between Mages and Templar, then continue to get involved in. The game didn't answer or even give hint about previous game, but give you a new game with a weak character to play. Hawke have no authority over anything but yet he/she can meddle with everyone business like a boss even before become a noble. Even as a noble, what give him/her a right to get involve in everything? Hawke have no right at all. The game didn't give any hint on why Hawke can be a big boss in the city and no one give a damn about it. I can say that Bioware never decide about this game, that is why we can see inconsistencies, lazy work, loop holes and many things. They just pile up everything for DA:O then they begin to decide in DA2. But DA2 is a failure. Sten was a mysterious character with weird philosophy of life, he's a giant and dark skined. All we know he's a Qunari. Suddenly in DA2 Qunari are nothing like Sten in appearance, they have horn, reddish, fanatical "Militant Islamic Borg" (David Gaider who said this) who run amok in a city just because they lost their holy book....now what is that? Ok, they say Qunari are technologically advanced bla bla bla, but they cannot print and making thousand copies of one holy book??? Then they want to relate the red devil horned barbaric Qunari with Ottoman Turk... It's a turn down for me....

What i mean is the idea behind Dragon Age, the story is taken from dusty locker in Bioware office, they add in stuff and change a bit, there you got Dragon Age As you can see the title is DRAGON Age but the story is never about dragon whatsover. Yes i actually debated this to death in Bioware forum, but just let me rant here a bit now Dragon Age is actually a half assed project, even in the original Dragon Age : Origin it is actually full of laziness work. As the title say Dragon Age : Origin, the story is not about dragons and the origin part is only few minutes introduction, and have no any significant in the whole pic. They claim the story is about Thedas that is the world, but what the story is about again? So David Gaider got his lazy ass idea taken only a portion of the story in DA:O that is Templar vs Mage into DA2, but still what Dragon Age is about? It is nothing, the plot is very similar to KotOR2 Now they making Dragon Age : Inquisition, oh there's a Illuminati group who will solve a problem...what problem? Sky open up and demons coming in...what the..? So that's Dragon Age...

Dragon Age is nothing but Star Wars and KotOR 1+2 rip off. Mages (Force sensitives) must be watched always by Templars (Handmaiden) any sign of corruption. Tevinter Imperium (The True Sith Empire) is an empire build by Blood Mages (Sith) Qunari (Mandalorian) is a warmonger race, involved in a war that almost tear down Thedas, the ones who repel against them are the Circle Mages (Jedis) Darkspawn (Rakghoul) is a mutant life form that can taint everything they touch Peoples fear Mages (Jedi) because they cannot differentiate between Mages (Jedi) and Blood Mages (Sith)

To think about it, the Ithorian is actually draining Republic credits with their project, since Peragus is destroyed, it is even worse. If the Exile direct Telos into buying oil from the Hut, according to Goto, the Republic will bankrupt in the long run. So helping the Ithorian is actually bad isn't it? But if our intention is to weaken the Republic then help the Ithorian and make business with the Hutt About B4D4, after we steal him, he's programmed to lie....and the Ithorian just let him free. He's also accompanied with a crazy droid with gun. Czerka maybe look evil but they have their own resources, they are businessmen, they always know how to handle situations and make profit. Yes in the end they turn Telos into machine planet but this machine planet know how to defend against attacks. Similar with other quests, helping Vaklu is actually good because Onderon now have a capable ruler with their military, even Mandalore approve it. Onderon under Vaklu can stand against Mandalorians should they being attacked. Helping Talia making Onderon always rely on the Republic, they only depend on Republic strength and following Republic whim. The Republic is at the weakest state, if Republic fall, it drag Onderon with it. If the Republic stand, Onderon always paying debt to the Republic. Similar with Dantooine, helping the mercenaries actually making Dantooine stronger. As we can see Dantooine peoples are actually bad, they hate Jedi and their economy is grave robbery. All the peoples you meet are actually bad and selfish. They even want to kill or sell you to the Exchange if they can. Better give Dantoine to Azkul, he and his men have weapons and can provide security to Dantooine, and they didn't rob Jedi enclave Just a thought

Actually, i don't want a solid conclusion, better leave it with varriants, i mean like what happen to Carth have many version according to the player choice in the first game. There should not be a novel explain only one version of the story like what happen now. It is a disappointment Revan and Exile should remain both a man or a woman, both light or dark, and so on Just uncanon the book and TOR because there should be no canon for a GAME that have MANY CHOICES

In my opinion, the Sith in KotOR 2 are actually bunch of psychos, they call themselves "Sith", appear as "Sith", but not really following the Sith teaching, and Kreia did say about this in her dialogues, "they don't care about the Sith or Sith teaching". The one who still hold true to the Sith teaching to an extend is only Kreia in KotOR 2. What she teach the Exile (and Revan) is Sith teachings The Exile no matter light or dark in KotOR 2 is ACTUALLY a Sith. But Kreia did alter a bit the original teachings mixing it with Jedi teachings. What she do is making the Exile stronger and stronger and then "the chain is broken and the Force shall free me", no matter light or dark both is the Force Kreia hate the Force because for her the Force is controlling her and everyone, she want to BREAK that, notice on how many times this word, BREAK, being said in her dialogues? What she meant is to break the chain and then be free... So in my opinion, Revan actually did BREAK in the end before he/she vanish, if The Exile success in breaking free too, so imagine when the two meet....one of them will become the Sithari, both are The TRUE SITH

Revan book must be uncanon, because if they really want to make all EU non-canon, Revan book must be included. Now they cannot say TOR is canon because they themselves declare everything other than the SW movies, Clone Wars series and future projects are non-canon. It also means KoTOR 1 and 2 are non-canon. But like i said above, KotOR 3 if being made now will become canon, and making KotOR 1 and 2 a canon because of continuity Yes, i prefer Obsidian make it, i have lost faith with Bioware, i am boycotting Bioware right now. Maybe the original game was made by Bioware but the whole thing is not belong to them, so anyone actually can make KotOR 3 now

English is not my language, but the way i understand it is everything that is EU from the past are non-canon, but future EU are canon. By "future" means "after Star Wars episode 7" released. It is because Star Wars episode 7 have it's own story and not related to EU. Disney/Lucas Art just clean up everything and so they can focus on thier own Star Wars universe. It is a good thing actually, but not without some complication. In regard of KotOR, well TOR is not KotOR, like i have mentioned in other thread these two are under different title. TOR cannot be KotOR canon. KotOR 3 if done now can be KotOR 1 and 2 also Star Wars canon. All Obsidian must do is like you said, get the permission and contract. KotOR 2 is still Obsidian game, Bioware cannot making noise about it, although it is based on their work, it is a different product and is Lucas Art brand. Disney just want to make money, and is not related with TOR developement as i know, so it is easy for them What are you waiting for Obsidian? Save Revan and Exile

Because of it have been declared that only Star Wars film, drama, Clone Wars series and all future Star Wars are canon, so Obsidian can make KotOR 3 as what Obsidian want isn't it? i quote here http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lucasfilm-confirms-all-future-star-wars-content-to-be-canon-including-the-games/1100-6419225/ "The recent delay of the latest expansion for another EA title, Star Wars: The Old Republic, is unrelated to today's announcement. The Lucasfilm rep told GameSpot, "[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change." It means TOR is not canon. Anyone can freely making KotOR 3 now and it will be a canon. When KotOR 3 is canon, it makes KotOR 1 and 2 canon as well because of continuity, which means we can erase TOR from history Good thing is Revan and The Exile will remain ambiguous, everything will be determined and officially canonized in KotOR 3. No one can claim Revan/The Exile is male/female, lightside/darkside, dead/alive, because TOR and Revan novel never happen.

Personally i don't think Revan was smart and cunning, but he/she just taking advantages, an opportunist. it doesn't make him/her a smart and cunning person, ruthless maybe. The "smart/cunning/intelligent" Revan are said by characters and they are biased like i mention in the first post. And so "revan fall to dark side to save Republic" is actually untrue, the truth is Revan want to replace the Republic with his/her own system Kreia did hint about that, "the Republic is just a shell", Goto also hint about that, he don't care if Sith or Jedi win as long as "Republic" is intact. Revan goes missing and want to find the "True Sith" is from Kreia, and it contradict what she said before if you remember all her lines. There is no "True Sith", there is only the Sith. The war is war of belief remember? So what Sith is "True Sith"? It is like said "True *any religion*" empire. It is just her assumption that Revan going to search the "True Sith" Bastila also making assumption that Revan left the Star Forge because it is not Revan intention to use it. Goto also making the same assumption but in different version. So it is only an assumption. For me, from what we can see the whole story is about "betrayal", i say Revan left because of he/she cannot take it anymore...how many betrayals you can take until you get fed up by it? Furthermore, what the Jedi Council did is messing up his/her mind, even he/she reclaim his/her throne, Revan is not the same Revan anymore. Revan lost his/belief on anything. She feel betrayed by everyone This is my speculation (by ignoring the novel and TOR), maybe Revan was supposed to be the Sithari, the one who destroy the Sith and making it stronger. But revan cannot take it anymore, he/she left. Kreia trained The Exile to take Revan place..."I hope you will follow Revan path, but you are different" Kreia said...means what? So i say The Exile is supposed to replace Revan as The Sithari...maybe killing Revan "The Sith" and then making The Sith stronger than ever... Edit : Kreia is teaching The Exile about the flaws of Sith and Jedi teaching, so the The Exile is supposed to create a new order of Force user replacing the old one...no matter light or dark... It is similar like Luke being manipulated by Yoda and Obi Wan to kill his own father, but turn of events making Darth Vader kill Sidious...if that makes any sense... Edit : The Exile is the "True" Sith Revan is looking for, The Exile looking for Revan...so either Revan or The Exile become the Sithari by killing each other...

I found some way to do good in dark side way...actually there are a lot of opportunity for that rather than doing bad and psychotic all the way. That is something unique about this game compared to KotOR 1. Example, we assume helping Ithorian is "light side quest", but actually it isn't. There are more dark side option there than helping Czerka. We also assume killing the Jedis is dark side, but actually it is not. So i dcided not killing them for better result. And actually gather them and to be killed by Kreia is "dark side" isn't it? And as i found out there are more dark side points in an act that is not actually evil act, such as in Dxun, we got quest to search for the patrol, just say we kill them we got dark side point, even if we say we don't want to kill them, we kill them anyway... We got more dark side points from dialogues rather than actions, for me dialogues means nothing, action does, so i can say bad things but not doing evil, if that makes any sense... Furthermore, get defeated by "Revan" will get dark side points, so i intentionally get defeated by "Revan"... Edit : Oh about Ithorian quest, we did STEAL B4D4 isn't it? Funnily the Czerka also said ask the same thing, that is stealing Ithorian droid....

Revan mind is badly damaged, in one of the dialogue option in KotOR when meet Bastila at the top of the temple is "how i want to reclaim my title if i don't remember anything about being Revan?" (something like this), then Bastila say that Revan memory is wiped clean, Revan there is not Revan anymore Revan at that time is actually not the same with Revan before Malak betrayal, you are "Revan", the player. Since "Revan" wake up at Endar Spire, he/she is no longer the former Revan, even after the revelation, because you the player who shape him/her, everything you know about Revan is ONLY what being revealed to you You the player is what the Jedi Council did to Revan. In KotOR 2, what being told to you (The Exile) about Revan is "Revan as according to" the companions. Only Kreia and HK-47 really meet Revan BEFORE Malak betrayal. But Kreia is maniulative, she was Revan's teacher, surely her opinion is biased. She glorify Revan just because want to say her teaching is great. Dark Side and Light Side actually have no meaning, but evil and good have meaning. Jedi Council even though they are Light Side but they are evil. Sith is evil just because they are evil, not because of Dark Side. It is a misconception about the Force and moral value. That is the issue of KotOR actually For me, Revan before Malak betrayal is evil, soooo evil, unimaginably evil. He/she just want to prove a point, that is Jedi Council are wrong, he/she do whatever need just to prove that point. Revan was not intelligent, he/she was just cruel. Kreia want to justify what Revan did just because Revan was her student But as Revan, i am going to dark side because it makes sense. Like i mention above, i was the Dark Lord of the Sith, got betrayed by my student/friend, got captured by Jedi, got mind wiped and programmed to against my student/friend and against my own army...what the hell? When i regain little bit of consiousness about what happen, just eliminate everyone who wasted my 5 years of life time and restore back my position, isn't that makes sense? Why would i want to be a pawn of the Jedi? The Star Forge is there and i have a new powerful apparentice.... Now in KotOR 2, Korriban is in ruin is because of Sith teaching, that is what Kreia trying to tell to The Exile, (Atton also hint about that on Peragus). Sith teaching have it's flaw, what Kreia trying to do is to make The Exile create own new "Sith version" that is free from the flaw. Kreia show the flaw of Jedi as well. So The Exile is supposed to be the new age of "Force user" not labelled as Jedi or Sith. No matter you play as Light Side or Dark Side, you kill your master in the end, and that should be an end of the old Sith teaching. Kreia is the Sith of old age, The Exile is the new age Back to Revan, he/she left, vanished...there are many speculations, theories, the truth is no one know why...sadly the whole story now based on the novel... Edit to add : As The Exile...i am not a Jedi anymore, and every Jedi i meet hate me, so why would want to follow Jedi codes? I have apparentices who are very loyal to me, have a cool master Kreia in which i kill her in the end, have Trayus Academy, so why not just making my own Dark Jedi cult? Oh yeah, Mandalorian army and allies from many planets...next move, crush the Republic!

I don't acknowledge that novel, it is an abomination of both Star Wars and KotOR. As i have stated in other thread, the story don't fit the premise. But what i am talking about in the original post above is Revan before mind wiped by the Council. There is no truth about Revan during that time. Everyone who tell you have their own sentiment and agendas. But from all companions i can say the droids telling the truth. I actually have reach a conclusion, that Revan is evil...you see, the dark side storyline is actually make sense rather than the light side. For me the light side is not actually "light", it's just hipocrisy. You as player may love the "light side" Revan, but if look closely into the matter, that "light side" Revan is actually the Jedi Council puppet. The Jedi Council and the Republic are bad, incompetent, ineficiency...that what lead to Revan defying the Council and going to war. The Jedi didn't support the war, they bickering eachother about what is proper and inproper for Jedi. They are conservatives. As being stated by many peoples you meet, the Mandalorian threat is great, but Jedis are stupid They fear the Jedi will fall to dark side if going to war, so why Jedi trained to fight, what the lightsaber is for? As we all know fear lead to dark side, they FEAR dark side themselves, isn't that lead to dark side? So the "dark side" they fear of is not actually dark side, they just fear their own shadow. So Revan going to war, later he/she find an opportunity, that is the real story i guess, the truth. The Republic is in bad shape, the Jedis are incompetent, so Revan took advantage of it, fall to dark side and become a Dark Lord. Revan want to rule. One thing we must take note is supporting the Republic is not "light side", supporting Sith is not "dark side". The two thing is just religious and political movement/organization. But of course the Sith is evil and using dark side of the Force, it is not because of the dark side of the Force, they are just evil. It just happen that Malak betray Revan, Bastila team is sucessful and Revan lost his/her mind. Should this event not happen, Revan is the Dark Lord of the Sith, Republic is crushed and Jedi order is no more. The Jedi is weak, the Jedi Masters cannot handle Malak? That is a joke. They have to program Revan and use Revan to against his/her own apprentice and army. They manipulate Revan, they lie, Bastila lie, everybody in the Council LIE...now we all know that LIE is the way of the Sith isn't it? So now Jedi Order itself is bad and evil. They feel perfectly justified and what worse is they claim they are at the good side. For me, dark side ending make sense. Revan realized being tricked by the Jedi Order, he/she resume the title of Dark Lord, kill Malak and everyone, everything else are just distraction. Not only the Jedi against his/her plight in Mandalorian War, now want to make him/her a puppet? So, no compromise there. And so The Exile, dark side story line make sense rather than light side. The Exile is...THE EXILE...Jedi exiled him/her, even when he/she return, the Council still against him/her, the order making him/her a threat and enemy. So The Exile is not a Jedi, the Jedi code don't apply to him/her. If you as player going light side by following the way of Jedi, it is a hipocrisy, the Jedi reject you. So for both KotOR 1 and 2, dark side makes sense

I don't know if this have been discussed over and over, but i have my own opinion regarding this matter. The main source about Revan we know are from companions and NPCs. I think not all of them speaking the truth. We must understand their character to determine the truth, they are all biased actually. Canderous - He's a broken Mandalorian working as a mercenary under Davik. He's also an idealist nationalist. He praised Revan and idolize him/her is just because to make his people defeat as "sweet defeat" or "glorious defeat". He boasted about how intelligent Revan is, i say it is an exaggeration. No Mandalorians ever talk anything about Revan, only Canderous isn't it? Then Revan who give him the Mandalore mask and making him new Mandalore, so he feel indebted to Revan Juhani - She idolize Revan and Jedi, she even look Jedis as "demigods". If we play LS Revan, she admire Revan because it fit her own ideal about the Jedi. If we play DS Revan, she will tell Revan that Revan is not the ideal Jedi she thought Revan should be. For that, she's unreliable. Kreia - She's a manipulation witch, Revan's master and a Sith. There is a reason why she talk about Revan, she just want to say that Revan was successful because of following her teaching. She also want to hint to the Exile regarding the Force Bond leeching everybody and relate it with Revan, we know it is not true. Only Exile have such unique quality, Revan only have bond with Bastila and it is only because of Bastila using her force power to save Revan life. She want to The Exile get influented by her teaching by making Revan as an ideal apprentice Atton - He was a Sith spy and assassin. His mind is so messed up by Sith indoctrination as well whatever the Jedi he kill did to him. He was also a deserter who join Revan, so his view about Revan is all messed up. I doubt he ever meet Revan personally as a common soldier. He even not sure Revan is a man or a woman at Peragus. Mical - What he know about Revan is what he read and heard about Revan, and he add up his own opinion. He's a Republic spy and Jedi fan Jedi Council - Well, they hate Revan, Dark Side, Sith...they even mind wipe Revan and program Revan into becoming someone else. They also send The Exile into exile without telling the truth about what happen. Why want to believe whatever they say about Revan? For me, we can take droids as reliable source to know about Revan, because they are droids. Even they can lie now, but they have no reason to lie to you. They have no motive to lie about Revan to you G0-T0 - This twisted droid motivation is to save the Republic, he's a manipulator actually, but what make he's different with Kreia is everything for him is numbers and calculations, he deal with facts. So the things he told us about Revan is what we need to know about Revan HK-47 - The one and only reliable source to know about Revan. He was created by Revan, he know everything. He have no motivation to lie to us about Revan. He tell the Exile about Revan as a friend, he told Revan (in KotOR 1) him/herself about Revan as a "creation to a creator". So if want to know the truth about Revan, ask him. So this is my opinion, there is no truth about Revan actually because everyone beside the droids are unreliable sources of information. They are biased with whatever agenda they have, their own opinions and their sentiment toward Revan and the Exile.