Qistina

Nothing to maintain i think because there should be no canon, if they wnt to set a canon for KotOR such as Revan is a male and in love with Bastila, better just remove character creation choices, remove gender and class choices for all Star Wars games, like The Force Unleash TOR is just another Star Wars universe, i can consider Revan and Exile in TOR are just "ester eggs", Revan and Exile in TOR is just a version of them in Star Wars TOR universe, if you get what i mean Bioware have changed much, changing policy, changing theme, changing staff and writers, if they make KotOR 3 i believe it will be like DA2 or Mass Effect, i don't want. Better Obsidian make it and maintain the "KotOR" feeling...

LS and DS points are given when we do good or evil...but from what i understand of the philosophy behind it, actually have nothing to do with good or evil. LS and DS are just forces that drive something, pasive or active. Many situations where i see there is confusions regarding LS and DS, mechanically and storywise Example, if the player character use agressive dialogue, get DS pints but many LS characters use agressive dialogues and agressive behavior and they still LS. Bastila is arrogant, proud and agressive character, she maintain LS until get captured by Malak. Exile use Mind Trick to make two gangster jump to death for helping a guy but get DS point, but how much Force powers being used to kill people don't get DS points? What's the difference? LS= good DS= bad is absurd actually, we can see clearly the Jedi Council is BAD...they mind wiped Revan and injecting false memories, just imagine that, mind wipe someone and making that someone somebody else...isn't that evil? Why they are LS? Jedi Council in KotOR 2 are also bad, they clearly bunch of annoying arrogants... In KotOR if we betray Gadon we get DS points, but in the end Brejik turn on us and we have to kill him, thus destroying the whole gang in Undercity...isn't that LS? We destroy the whole gangsters of Taris both Black Vulkar and Hidden Beck...but we don't get LS points for that because the mechanic is "you betray, betray is bad, you get DS point"

For me, Revan and Exile in TOR cannot be a canon because of the title of the game. You see, KotOR and KotOR 2 :TSL share the same title that is "SW : KotOR", Star Wars : Knights of the Old Republic. TOR is not KotOR just by the title itself, it is a different game and different universe, Revan and Exile are just added in. Similar with the novel, it is not under the same title So, i think if want to fight about what is the canon Revan and Exile, fight the title Example, if i create a game, i call it "Galaxy Heroes", then there's a continuation "Galaxy Heroes 2 : Big Bang", soon after there's an MMO using the title "Heroes of the Galaxy" and put in some characters from "Galaxy Heroes", it is a separate series isn't it? Separate title. The characters in "Heroes of the Galaxy" cannot be a canon of "Galaxy Heroes" Christopher Reeve Superman is not the same Superman with Man of Steel, it is a diffetent title Edit : And so many other like Spiderman, Bat Man, X-Men...there are many version of the original, none can be canon of the original. Does Bat Man really learn Ninjutsu? Does Spiderman really firing web from his hands or using some gadget? Why must Star Wars stick to a "canon", why must KotOR stick to a "canon"?

.... you have not proven that at all. Your opinion =/= fact. Opinions doesn't have to be based on facts

I don't know if this have been discussed before, but have anyone try this? Play as Dark Jedi but always do good, play as Jedi but always do bad, for each get maximum DS and LS points in doing the paradox? Is it possible? It is because of doing good will earn LS point and doing evil will earn DS point, how i want to play a max DS point character but actually a good character and in contra max LS point character but a bad one? As we can see, the so called good Jedi are not actually good in the story like those Jedi council, and Dark Jedi not actually bad like Revan. And the Force actually have nothing to do with being good or bad, it's just our decisions. So i got this idea of making a contradiction character, but how want to escape earning DS/LS points in doing bad/good to reach max, and how to reach max DS/LS without being evil/good? I don't want a grey character Just want to prove that "kowledge is not inherently good or evil but how you use it"

No, not just tropes, but the whole idea is copied from KotOR 2

Yes, Star Wars have millions of fans, they cannot resist to make more money out of it. They admit themselves that KotOR have solid fans and is a game that still played today. So they decided to make SWTOR, and is MMO. But they make a mistake by making it an MMO and copying novel version of Revan and the Exile. It is because the original story being merged into Dragon Age. As i have stated in above posts, the thing about Mages, Blood Mages and Templar is so similar with KotOR 2 premise. And what suppose to be KotOR 3 premise is Dragon Age : Inquisition premise. Like i mentioned above, Tevinter Imperium is an empire of Blood Magic run by Blood Mages. While the rest of Thedas are run by Chantry, Mages are under the Chantry. It is like Sith empire that run by Sith/Dark Jedi vs Republic where Jedi don't rule. But in KotOR 2 the Handmaiden don't yet controlling the Jedi because the Exile manage to stop Atris. Dragon Age universe is when the Templar controlling Mages under the Chantry rule, i can say that it is the world where Handmaiden watch over Jedis. So what if Atris success in controlling Jedis? That is the world of Dragon Age. What happen in Dragon Age is because of that, where Mages or "Fade sensitive" persons are oppressed by religious order in Chantry kingdoms, while there are others "Fade sensitive" who roam free in other kingdom In KotOR 2, people see Jedi and Sith are the same, like in Dragon Age, people see Mages and Blood Mages are the same.

I think what was intended to be KotOR 3 plot, they make it into Dragon Age, they cancel KotOR for some reason, they use KotOR universe to create Dragon Age instead. Later they make SWTOR but because of the original idea of KotOR 3 have been used for Dragon Age, they scrap it all and make new one, that is why SWTOR is 300 years later after koTOR 2 event story. To make it esy, they just copy the novel version of Revan and Exile as "conclusion" Isn't it obvious? For me it is

Another similarities between Dragon Age and KotOR 2 i. Arishok and Qunari got stranded in Kirkwal, they live in confined space given to them as a gift of peace. They are hated for their history and culture. Mandalore and Mandalorians living at Dxun, a small moon on Onderon. They are hated and feared for their history and culture. ii. Qunari attack Kirkwal. Mandalorian attack Onderon iii. In Dragon Age : Inquisition, it is rumored that the Inquisitor may ally with Qunari, the ex-enemy. The Exile ally with Mandalorians the ex-enemy to against the Sith. iv. The Warden defend Redcliffe from undead attack with whatever the town can provide. The Exile defend Khoonda with whatever the town can provide. v. The Warden must choose who become the leader in Orzamar, Harrowmont or Bhelen. The Exile must choose who become the leader of Onderon, Vaklu or Talia vi. Denerim is the place of final battle with Darkspawn. Citadel Station is the place of final battle with the Sith. Both places are the place where the main character familiar with, the final battle not happened at new place vii. Andraste Temple is an ancient tomb of prophet Andraste, the founder of the religion. The Warden and co goes there and fight with some cultist. Fredon Nadd tomb is an ancient building, a tomb of a Sith Lord. The Exile companions fought Sith cultist there.

you mentioned mandalorians being analogous to quinari. if they were, they were so in kotor. you mention sith as tevinterish and or blood mage.. no different in kotor. you mention suspicion of mages similar to suspicion of jedi. as you recognized, hk-47 were bioware. etc. hawke as exile... well, that is just silly. if hawke had created a wound in the fade... was a wound in the fade, and he went in search of the warden commander at the end of da2 after killing his mentor... nah. just kinda falls apart, doesn't it? most others parrallels you draw is even more tenuous. sorry, but it just don't work. HA! Good Fun! I don't say Hawke is The Exile copy, but Hawke character is...Hawke is a war veteran, well non-Mage Hawke is, even hawke is a mage he/she quite experience in magic not like any other Mages. Hawke and family are exiles from Lothering. Hawke raise to power like the Exile is. He/She involve in the religious struggle in Kirkwal as the Exile involve in religious struggle between Jedi and Sith. Hawke make contact with the Merchant Guild/Carta, the Exile make contact with The Exchange. Hawke make contact with the Arishok of Qunari, the Exile make contact with with Mandalore of Mandalorian. Hawke meet with his/her father spirit, The Exile meet with Revan "spirit". Both Hawke and The Exile at the crossroad of the incoming war that is war of belief In fact Dragon Age 2 and the incoming Dragon Age : Inquisition have very similar plot line with KotOR 2, that is the incoming war is war of belief, religious struggle. In Dragon Age it is war between Mages and Templars/Chantry, KotOR 2 is about war between Jedi and Sith. Let see, i. Mages in Dragon Age are "Fade sensitive", they are taken away since children to be trained as a Mage in the Circle. In Star Wars, Jedi are Force sensitive, they are taken away since children to be trained as Jedi. ii. Mages can be corrupted when demons of the Fade possessed them, this is always a threat for a Mage. Jedi can fall into Dark Side and this always an issue for a Jedi iii. Blood Mages are mages who use blood for magic and commune with demon, they can suck human life. Sith are Dark Jedi using Dark Side of the Force, they can suck everyone life iv. Magic come from the Fade, a realm of Spirit and Demon. Jedi power come from the Force, Light and Dark v. Templars watch Mages for corruption. Handmaiden watch Mages for corruption vi. In Dragon Age 2, Templars are under Meredith, a woman. Handmaiden are under Atris, a woman. vii. Meredith corrupted by ancient relic, the Red lyrium idol. Atris corrupted by ancient relic, Jedi/Sith holocron viii. Flemeth is a manipulator, an old woman, a powerful apostate Mage. Kreia is a manipulator, an old woman, a powerful Sith Lord ix. Flemeth save Hawke who being hunted down by darkspawn at Lothering. Kreia save The Exile who being hunted down by assassin at Peragus Just few...there are many more...

Actually KotOR 2 is not KotOR, these two are totally different. The characters except few are not Bioware standard character types. The only thing from Bioware in KotOR 2 are Canderous/Mandalore, HK 47 and T3-M4, the rest are not Bioware character archetype. Even those three characters are different from their original in KotOR. Other characters but not the main characters from KotOR are Carth and Bastila. KoTOR 2 is not Bioware game, have different feeling when playing it, not the same with all Bioware games. So i say Bioware did steal KotOR 2 much in their recent games. The premise of KotOR 2 is not the same with KoTOR, but the premise of Dragon Age is much similar with KotOR 2...

.... I think it's safe to say that you're reaching. I mean, it's cool to hate BioWare, but come on. No, really, Dragon Age copied too much from KotOR/KotOR 2/Star Wars, they just change little bit here and little bit there. Another example Genoharradan - Antivan Crow Exchange - Carta/Merchant Guild HK-47/Visas Marr - Zevran Kreia - Flemeth Anders is actually Revan in Dragon Age 2, he is an abomination, he against Chantry teaching but the same time he don't support Blood Mages either. He goes against the Chantry by blowing up the church in which spark the Mage Templar war, the same like Revan did. Hawke is the exile, her character is so similar, in the end she disappear like the Exile The world of Dragon Age is parralel with KotOR 2, that is the world where Mages and Blood Mages are problematic that make everything turn up side down, the same time Qunari trolling everyone...much like Jedi civil war and Mandalorian war Tevinter Imperium is an empire build by Blood Mages, we can say that it is an empire build entirely by Blood Magic...in KotOR there is true Sith empire in which build entirely with Dark Side of the Force Cut off Mages from the Fade is a punishmet for Mages, cut off Jedi from the Force is a punishment for Jedi

More and more i played KotOR 2 i realized that Dragon Age is so much "stealing" KotOR 2 storyline and concept. Jedi - Mages/Chantry Mages Sith - Blood Mages/Tevinter Imperium Sith Empire - Tevinter Imperium Handmaiden - Templar Mandalorian - Qunari Dragon Age is about wars caused by religious sects of Mages, pro-Chantry Mages and pro-Tevinter Mages, actually the war was caused by Mages who have so much power and abuse it. Similar with KotOR 2 universe where wars are cause by Jedi and Sith, two religious sect. Templar job is to watch Mages, watching signs of corruption. Templars don't have magic. Handmaiden job is to watch Jedi in Atris new order of Jedi. Handmaiden cannot feel the Force. Peoples fear Mages, and peoples are victims of corrupted Mages. Peoples fear Sith and Jedi, and are victim of corrupted Jedi. Qunari is a warmonger race who invade large part of Thedas, Tevinter Imperium and Chantry Mages who hold them back. Mandalorian is a warmonger race, Jedi/Sith who hold them back. Hawke is a war veteran who suddenly involved in Mage and Templar conflict, also involved in Qunari invasion on Kirkwal....Exile is a war veteran who involve in conflict of two religious sect of Jedi and Sith, also involve in Mandalorian war... Dragon Age : Inquisition is somewhat a "conclusion" i think for Dragon Age series, i think it is actually the plot of KotOR 3 but they make it into Dragon Age

Re-install the game....

You need to talk to Lt Green on Telos about the fuel

I see...so it is "investigation mission" themed? Now it sound like Dragon Age : Inquisition a bit...the world is in chaos out of supernatural phenomenon and event, the Veil to the Fade torn apart, sky open up and demons comes into the world in Mage vs Templar war...the Inquisitor must investigate who is the culprit and solve the problem...either change the world to be a better place or leave it to bitter end...

Thanks guys, i am just an end user, all the mechanicl things just make me dizzy reading them, but i can give some ideas and suggestions, only if i have already see and experience the game my self, so for now i just wait and see the game when it released From what i read so far i still didn't see what the game really is, The Pillars of Eternity, still have no idea what it is about Is it about i. a hero save the world from utter destruction? ii. a group of awesome peoples stop a mechanism that could change everyone's fate in the world? iii. a war between races, a hero and co try to bring peace upon the land? iv. a hero mission to find a mysterious ancient artifact guarded by evil magicians and undead? v. a zombie apocalyspe? vi. a quest of seeking immortality or prevent evil guys from using the device of immortality? Atleast for DA:I, we already know it is about The Inquisitor a survivor of the sky open up and demons poured into the world event, searching for the culprit behind Mage-Templar war

Yes, the game is isometric - Which is pretty much one of the biggest hooks that snagged all us filthy backer types. Graphics and lighting, from what we've seen, are shaping up to be superb. I know DA2 is bad enough lol I don't mind much about graphic actually as long as it is not like Arcanum in which too pain to see. Anyway, the game is still in developement isn't it, then i wish you guys good luck. I will seek out this game if God will the camera will be like that of arcanum but the graphics will be much more clean... just look at some screenshots. So there is no 360 degree rotation? I think there will be some problem with that, especially when want to position your team mates. In DA:O we can rotate the camera and so we can micromanage our party members Example, AoE spells, with rotating camera we can position our spells where we want to execute them. If can't rotate the camera, it will be like Diablo, you can't attack enemies off screen, but enemies can attack you off screen

Yes, the game is isometric - Which is pretty much one of the biggest hooks that snagged all us filthy backer types. Graphics and lighting, from what we've seen, are shaping up to be superb. I know DA2 is bad enough lol I don't mind much about graphic actually as long as it is not like Arcanum in which too pain to see. Anyway, the game is still in developement isn't it, then i wish you guys good luck. I will seek out this game if God will

Thanks all I didn't go to front page, i just go to KotOr 2 forum instead..sorry Still no better summary than that one. If you're wondering what Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment are, well, I envy you. You're in for about six hundred hours of some of the greatest video games ever made. I know Baldur's Gate but never play it, Bioware games i started with KotOR and then DA:O and DA2. The only Obsidian game i play is KotOR 2. From what i see so far it does look like Dragon Age, if it is, then that take my interest But the graphic look like older games isn't it? I mean not something will come out from 2014

Hi guys, I am sorry, i am new to this game, i have watched some trailers on You Tube also some videos that have suggestion about this game, but i know nothing about this game other than what is there on You Tube Can someone tell me about this game, is it a new game or already established? Where could i find more about this game? Thanks.

KotoR 2 cannot be the end, TOR is not an ending for KotOR either, so there must be KotOR 3 I no longer BSN member, and i fed up with Bioware, not interested in that company anymore I intereted on your mention about KotOR 2 Jedi, I can see that DA "steal" many concept of KotOR 2 have established, they only change it into Mage vs Templar war. Mages are "KotOR 2 Jedis" in DA world, Mages who set the world upside down, but yet peoples need Mages when they are in trouble.The Warden is "Revan" and Hawke is "Exile". So it is not original. i just hope that Obsidian can take part on straighten things out, making KotOR 3, and conclude it.

With all the discrepencies of TOR, it is justified if Obsidian or anyone creating KotOR 3 based on the premise of KotOR 1 and 2. We can consider TOR as "alternate universe" for MMO and not as KotOR sequel. We can see there are many versions or alternate versions of X-Men, Superman, Transformers and many others. It is nothing wrong if KotOR maintain it's own storyline and identity. As i said TOR can be an alternate universe for MMO while KotOR is KotOR the universe of single player If Lucas Art or Disney or anyone who is related to Star Wars is wise, they should being rigid about "canon". By the way the game itself give liberty to the player to shape own Revan and Exile, what canon is "canon" if the prmise of the story is shape own destiny? It is not a novel or a movie, it is a game. Even Star Wars itself changed from the original, the Star Wars Trilogy have many changes in it. So it's nothing wrong to release KotOR 3, not wrong in the Star Wars universe, not wrong in the narrative and not wrong legally

Yes i agree with you. It seems to be in game industry today what is important to them is making money, they don't care about "art" anymore, the "art" is not just graphic, the "art" is everything, the product. Even the previous KotORs are "ancient" games and system but i find out they are more worth to play than any modern grapically boosted games such as Skyrim. So they just fill in the games with BS for players to play, make up it with graphic, copy everything from WoW and then call it Star Wars. Of course KotOR have some DnD layout, but it just minor and i don't feel it being DnD. TOR is WoW. In both games, the main character is unique character, they are not like any Jedi (or even Sith) ever existed. They are detached from the common Jedi thrope. But sadly the canon ending now making them just ordinary common Jedi. I don't know how they decided to destroy the premise they themselves made? Let see i. Revan no matter light or dark, left the known galaxy in search of the mystery of the True Sith ii. The Exile who is a "leech" Jedi also left the known galaxy, to find Revan, to help Revan with whatever Revan is facing iii. Revan no matter light or dark, ask Canderous to be prepare for his/her return, that is to face the incoming war of belief, the war that everyone destroying everyone iv. Lightside Revan asking Carth Onasi/Bastila to keep the Republic strong, prepare for the incoming war v. Revan no matter light or dark never really have war with the Republic, he/she just using the infinite armada as a diversion, as a cause to make everybody move, the Jedi, the Republic, everyone to move and not become stagnant, it is for preparing to face the unspeakable war that will come vi. Kreia training The Exile not a Jedi or Sith, it is for The Exile to understand both extremes and not bias toward the "religion". It is for preparing The Exile toward the incoming war. vii. Kreia try to destroy both extemes of Jedi and Sith. Kreia said that Revan need allies no matter Jedi or Sith for the incoming war. The extreme belief is only to blind the Force users from seeing the truth. viii. Both Revan and The Exile must leave their love ones, because such attachment is dangerous in the place they going ix. Revan was mind wiped by the Council, it is mind control technique. revan lost his/her memory x. The Council also can cut of the Force from any Jedi xi. The Exile lost memory from the past because he/she cut off him/herself from the Force xii. Battle Meditation is a mass mind control power. Bastila have mastered it xiii. Rakatan peoples are extreme Force users and they build their empire by it. They lost their connection to the Force. That is the premise of KotOR so far...what is the premise of TOR? It totally destroy it. That is why in my other thread i suggest that the "True Sith" is actually building a mind control machine that will control everyone and making peoples fight each other. That is just my conclusion. TOR story however unrelated to everything that being presented in KotOR. In my opinion, the threat is related to mind control thing. To fight it also must be related to mind control technique such as Battle Medation of Bastila. The reason why Revan must leave everyone is because of fear they will fighting each other. The reason why revan want to break the Jedi is because to face this threat, the Jedi cannot be conservatives, or else they are easily being played by the true enemy. The reason why The Exile must be unbias is because he/she must see things clearly to make decisions. The Exile must not be blinded by both etremes of jedi and Sith teaching. The Mandalorian War is NOT Mandalorian choice isn't it? So i believe it is because they are mind controlled. The truth is Light, Dark and Neutral are all THE FORCE. Jedi only focus on light side, Sith only focus on dark side, they become conservatives, stagnant, unchanged, extremists...that what destroy each other. What Kreia taught both Revan and Exile is about "The Force" and not just one sided view. So the "True Sith" i think is the master of the Force like the Rakatan peoples. The Rakatan even navigate their ships using the Force and not engine. So the "true Sith" must be related with Rakatan and their technology. Rakatan lost their connection to the Force because of "something". i suspect that KotOR 3 must reach that conclusion, not like what in the novel or TOR Just my opinion anyway.

I disagree, if someone can create another version of what happen to Revan and Exile, no one can argue. The book and TOr is just alternate universe, interpreted by the writers and Bioware, even Bioware themselves taking other sources in EU in the making of KotOR. KotOR is a serries of it's own, TOR is on it's own, and so many other EU stuffs. If want to take all EU stuff as canons then Star Wars is in ruin long ago. Just look at low grade stories and comics that have Star Wars stamp on it. By means there is no canon of Revan or Exile other than in KotOR game itself, if it taken from outside KotOR game, it can't be considered as canon because they are not KotOR. Similar like we can't take any EU stuff as Star Wars canon other than Star Wars movies itself. So, if i can make out my own story about Revan and Exile, i will make it, sadly i am not English user, if i do will it automatically considered "canon" if it become a best selling book or comic? Or it need Lucas Art or Disney liscencing? Or it's only a fan art and head canon?