Bitula

If you need a number to go up to do something you already enjoy doing in a game, may I humbly suggest that you don't actually like doing it very much? EDIT: My apologies for the multiple posts, by the way. I'm using my phone to type, and there doesn't seem to be a way to quote multiple people in the same post in the mobile version of the forum. What I was saying is that advancing in an in detail measured manner is a source of fun in itself. Other fun factors are added up, these are really not contradicting each other. A flat quest XP does not reward the “how” aspect. It only rewards the “did it or not” factor which is quite binary and boring. There is the fact that same things can be done in a better and worse way. This hugely improves the game and the replay-ability of the game.

To avoid the „dumb down” effect, the stash should be a limited but high capacity cart, or mule (eg.: donkey). Then the normal inventory could be IWD or BG-like. Solves everything: our beloved classical inventory management remains, “degenerate” game play is slightly prevented. I don’t think a magic bag is a nice option, that is an “uber” item, which should cost a fortune, and available at mid to end game if at all. The scavenger guild is a bad idea, it eliminates the fun of checking your opponents on the spot, since any, even low level foe can rarely have something valuable on him, that is the point of random surprise.

I don’t see this change as substantial or decisive, but the lack of realism is bothersome. You can’t say it is a cart or a courier, because then why is it tied to resting? What does this stash mean in the game? A dimension door which could be opened while sleeping, perhaps in your dreams? I cannot even think out anything realistic. Also cheap drops, like armor are a must to have even if you do not pick them. This adds a lot to realism, credibility and immersion. I don’t even know, do the developers want to make a realistic game, or there is a trend to sacrifice game mechanics for realism. Hope the former is the case.

I see a quest only based reward fundamentally flawed for two reasons. Firstly there are lots of us who grew up on classical RPG-s including BG who enjoyed the combat XP. Not everybody, but definitely a lot of us enjoyed this aspect and found it as a fundamental aspect of these old D&D based series. One reason – not exclusive - to visit every single room and cave of a dungeon is just to get a little more of that XP and the hope to find more loot on those corpses. And so the other reason is that sneaking past a foe would leave you in a quite unsatisfied state of mind: what did that creature had, which I may have missed to pick? Clearing a dungeon dry, is not that bad as you think, and is in no way grinding per se. Grinding, or its negative connotation rather applies to MMORPG-s where you ruin others experience by frequently revisiting dungeons and depriving others from the full experience. In a crpg this is not an issue. Although a very different game, in Skyrim, I spend reading books in dungeons several hours, sometimes I spend a half a (real) day reading if I find many in a dungeon on shelves and then killing the next goblin is still fun. So no, in a CRPG the purpose of combat XP is not to level up as fast as possible, but to get the maximum enjoyment out of the game. So please leave the good old combat system alone, or make reasonable changes to is, and make up rewarding pacific elements parallel. Let everyone do what they want, you do not need to force people via mechanics. I somehow do understand Helm’s apocalyptical stature, because such “innovative” changes may lead to an unfortunate decline of the project. However I still see it in a way that combat XP is not yet out ruled. Hopefully I am right on this.

Both wrong. As far as i understand yes, the deep stash is infinite but you can take out something in safe areas only. You can put something in it at any time though. That makes the inventory management a valuable part of the tactics as you have limited space for things you can access, but at the same time you don't have to go back and forth to sell stuff. Hmmmm, well that sounds better, though not too realistic. Or will it be a "magic bag of infinity" or so? Btw, but then this won't discourage to want to kill every foe for a potential valuable loot, not if though I like these sort of design level anti-combat directions. So whether the XP is quest based or both quest and encounter or instance based is not yet decided. Hope it wont be just quest based.

Ah so if you deep stash junk then later you cannot replace it with valueable items in the same dungeon unless you find a place to rest. But that will simply encourage exiting the dungeon to sell the stuff, or visiting the latest resting place, then returning, which is the possible worst solution. Bad design decision. Edit: font size

I don't understand the part that, if in PE at least some valuable loot can be picked from corpses, why would anyone sneak past a battle risking loss of potential loot. Also if any foe has at least cheap loot on them (armour, weapons), why isn't it an advantage for diligent players to pick it and sell it?

Dont know, where my previos post gone, but point is that Helm's concerns are substantial in the sense that a flat XP amount for Quests without any other alternatives is simplistic and boring. if the designers insist on rewarding non combat based solutions, than it should be handled with equeal measure. Than sneaking through more or harder enemies should be rewarded better. Talking yourself out through dialog options should be counted and rewarded according to difficulty. Killing enemies should be measured and counted according to their difficulty and amount, or the difficulty of an opposing group as a whole. This is a good workaround to solve this dilemma, and it does not matter when you get the XP, it could happen at the end of encounter or quest as well. So as far as I see, this is not yet decided, although Helm is looking for the link, so lets see, but, well a completly static amount of XP per Quests would be a very bad news.

Where is it stated that the game will be "Quest reward only XP"? I see that there is a trend to make the game rewarding even without frequent kills. But this in itself does not mean that combat in itself is not rewarded. There are really several ways realize this, not just the simplistic "Quest only" method.

Hi, here's my first post! I really followed PE as a potential old school RPG remake (I primarily liked gold box series, BG is OK too though), and so got a bit disappointed about what I read here. AFAIU what the OP stated is completly false, which is nice but the XP kill part seems to be true. What I read Helm claims that there is no XP for kills. Then there comes the argument that XP rewarded for quests is equivalent to XP for kills if you chose so, which of course is false, because it does not scale with the amount of kills, difficulty of monsters and difficulty of opposing parties. So that is rather equvalent to "NO XP for kills", I agree with Helm. But how OP and Helm know this is the truth? I don's see anything in the forum definetly suggesting that this is how it will be. Ofcourse none of the typical old CRPGs had such a simplistic and unmotivating concept as "XP for quests only", so that would be a bad news. Anyone can show me to where is it stated that it will be so? Ofcource MR. Sawyer disliking BG, even if it is somewhat ambivalent in his satements, is also a concern, maybe he could clarify, what did he mean with those statements? Btw, did he like the old Gold Box RPG-s like Pool of Radiance, because if he does I'll forgive it ?