Odd Hermit

I'm perhaps a little biased but IMO the problem is the companions are so poorly built the difficulty hinges on your PC meshing well with what's there. It's my biggest issue with the game. Personally, I added a custom min/max Paladin tank and a Cipher and it made everything way, way, way easier than dragging along 5 nigh-useless meat shields just for their personalities. Now I just drag three along. I can 3 man most encounters with Paladin/Druid/Cipher anyway.

Lol, not on Path of the Damned they don't.

Last good early game chant, please don't nerf it to the ground or move it up. :[ I don't want Dull the Edge / Winds of Death to be the only thing I ever use on Chanter for half the game. It could definitely be toned down though.

I feel like Cipher and Chanter are mandatory for PoD if you don't want to spend a ton of time resting. You will burn through Wizard spells extremely fast. Cipher and Chanter let you deal with smaller encounters without spending them.

I think there may be something funky going on with her starting armor. She has abnormally high DR against everything for me. It's supposed to increase DR by ~1.5x while under 25% endurance but I think it's displaying that and possibly granting it all of the time now. Maybe something bad/buggy also happens when you take it off. Edit here's what her DRs are when I take it off - http://i.imgur.com/SkNCutN.jpg O_o

I like the idea I saw in another thread: each point of Con lets you ignore a percentage of armor action penalty. So characters with really high con would be able to wear armor with little or no penalty. Yeah I like this idea. I suggested something similar awhile back too: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71046-attribute-based-talent-suggestions/

I agree, just figured I'd add it to the list as it's been suggested by others. I do wish we had more ways to gain accuracy for spells - there're lots of +accuracy sources for weapons. But of course with the AoE control spells available it could cause balance issues.

Everything I said about attributes in the beta I pretty still feel the same about, and my dislike is stronger due to companion builds being stuck with poor point distributions. Now that the game is release it just feels like the dead horse has been resurrected and it's a good time to talk(/rant) about them again. So... PERCEPTION/RESOLVE Interrupts are not a strong enough effect for damage-classes to invest in these. And a caster with a melee enemy on them is in trouble anyway, I rarely am trying to stand and cast while engaged and if I am it seems like Dexterity is a better bet to get casts off faster. Deflection also doesn't help non-tank build's survivability enough either. Deflection has almost the opposite of diminish returns right now, it sucks at all lower values and gets increasingly good as you get higher and higher values up until you can barely be hit. So if you're not stacking it, it feels like a small-medium investment in it is just a waste. This is also why many +deflection wizard spells kinda suck(plus costing spell/rest being an issue when they last only one encounter). CONSTITUTION Durable/higher deflection class/builds have enough endurance/health without investing in it. Fragile ones have low base endurance/health which means they get less out of it. And for the most part, even a 15-30% boost in endurance won't stop a squishy from dropping like a stone. MIGHT High might just feels like it gives a lot more than just a 21-30% boost to damage for me. I assume it's because it can be the different between dealing little-to-no damage to higher DR enemies, and actually getting substantial damage through. And as get higher and higher damage as you get better gear/level up, it just keeps modifying bigger numbers. It's a very no-brainer attribute to dump points into currently. The overall result right of these issues right now is that min/maxed builds are generally better at their jobs. There are almost no builds that can really benefit from more balanced attribute spreads. Potential solutions: Buffing interrupts. I don't really like how interrupts work/how random they are, but it would make perception and resolve potentially matter more. Putting accuracy on perception again. Not sure it wouldn't become just another thing to dump con/resolve to stack another damage attribute but at least it'd make the NPCs stuck with it better. Giving constitution a substantial flat /level endurance/health bonus. I'm not sure this alone would make it worth it, but it'd be better. Adding concentration to constitution, maybe in addition to the above. Tweaking deflection to have diminishing returns(or tweak the thresholds for miss/graze/hit/crit?), so smaller investments are worth more. Putting +duration on Resolve. Int is a bit of a no brainer caster attribute currently. However, with only AoE it becomes bad for many other classes so I'm not sure it'd hold up with only +AoE. Class-specific benefits for different attributes. This is the easiest/safest way to tweak things, but it probably conflicts with their goal of a simple/understandable system(though I'm not sure we have that currently anyway...).

They're high deflection and fairly high damage, something the PC/companions can't pull off at the same time. And there are limited ways to increase accuracy to counter high deflection which not all parties will have access too. They're pretty much cheaters. They do have low health though. Tenuous Grasp is how I do it w/my Cipher - can be used while not in combat unlike Whisper of Treason/Puppet Master

No matter what you're going to make mistakes with your build until you're familiar with how the game plays in practice, no just what looks good on paper. Play and figure things out as you go along - worst case scenario if you ruin a build you can restart or hire adventurers to pick up the slack. Or take a recommended build from someone more experienced for your first time, you can learn how to play with a safe bet and experiment later.

Arquebus has made Pallegina not terrible for me so that's been nice. I've got a Blunderbuss Cipher hired adventurer too. Generally I choose guns for all characters with good enough weapon accuracy, and crossbows for the rest. I even gave Aloth a crossbow despite his blast talent, because his might is too low to deal significant damage on anything with DR with a Wand anyway. Perhaps I should be trying Arbalest for Pallegina though, I just happened to come across a Fine Arquebus and haven't swapped.

It helps in many situations. Some enemies are still too fast, but that's what shadowing beyond(invis) is for - so make sure you get high int!

Chanter doesn't suck if you use summons well. Phantom and WIl-O'-Wisp are great. Granted, many encounters don't last very long - but the glory of summons is that you can send them out to pull another group as long as you've got one enemy keeping you in combat. Keeping chants and summons rolling can let you burn through multiple encounters quickly/efficiently. I'd say get 15+ Might, 17+ Intellect on a Chanter and the rest you can play with all you like. Kana is a decent character due to this, it's a class that doesn't rely that much on ideal attributes. Mainly just high int for chant AoE and overlapping longer durations.

I soloed the beta content with a rogue and leadsplitter + using shadowing beyond to escape any tough situations. I tried some other classes as well, but often the faster enemies were an issue(spiders) with no real escape tool. Most important talent for solo is probably fast runner, heh. I doubt there's a class that can do it w/out hit and run tactics.

Shadows are annoying because high deflection and teleports makes the fights feel very random, especially at low level and with a smaller party where you may not have a lot of options and you're just whiffing a lot against them. I luckily had a Druid PC and sunbeam spam(due to misses) made them much easier, but they're definitely some of the toughest encounters and not necessarily in a fun way if you're simply not equipped to deal with them so early on.

Ah yes you're right - I actually said he had Bear's Endurance in my first post(and complained about it), and then I must've put the talent I gave him @ level 4 in the post w/the info instead of his first talent. Unfortunately my saves are all past the point I can look at their low level skills now. None of them had high mechanics for me, Durance had 3 total - no idea why they put it on a class w/no bonus to mechanics. Kana or Aloth would've been better suited to it.

High int is definitely not worth it, I tested this and the distance you can be away from the paladin aura isn't very far even with 20 int. You're never going to comfortably cover a balance party of ranged and melee with the whole thing unless you crowd together which isn't a good idea. And Liberating Exhortation is good enough @ base duration really. I'd take some Int only if for dialogue options on the PC, otherwise leave @ base of 10 or lower it a bit.

Will make an effective tank and give you good dialogue options. Don't expect great damage output though. I'd wear a large shield and use a hatchet for maximum deflection, then swap to a good damage set-up when you don't need the high defenses. Grab weapon and shield style and cautious attack as first two talents IMO.

Easy: Eder Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 16 - 10 - 16 - 11 - 13 - 12 Aloth Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 16 - 10 - 12 - 11 - 16 - 13 Durance Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 15 -- 9 - 14 -- 9 - 19 - 13 Kana Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 16 - 12 - 14 -- 9 - 17 - 10 Sagani Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 18 - 11 - 14 - 11 - 13 - 10 Pallegina Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 15 - 11 - 14 - 13 - 12 - 13 Hiravias Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 15 - 11 - 14 - 10 - 14 - 13 Grieving Mother Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 17 - 11 - 12 - 10 - 16 - 12 _______ I've made them all offensively focused 'cause none have high enough durability for it to matter much. If I could swap Pallegina and/or Eder's talents out for something more defensive I could turn them into passable front-liners though. Hiravias and Pallegina are just really middle-of-the-road still though since they have no high attributes to work with at all. Grieving Mother would probably end up the most competent companion character with these swaps.

I believe Eder when you first get him says something along the lines of "hope you're not expecting much". Which I thought was a little bit funny. I still would be fine with their personality being separate from their build. I mean, keep the class as obviously it's a big part of characters, but it's not like they can use their attributes in dialogue checks anyway. It doesn't have a meaningful link to their personalities for me, I'd rather have the interesting character and a decent combatant than some odd attempt to build their combat stats with their personality in mind. I also think they may've built the characters before changing what attributes do(since they did multiple changes), but I'm not sure.

Here they are, and I think there's a lot of comfortable room between "perfect" and this terribleness - Eder Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 16 - 16 - 11 - 10 - 13 - 12 Gotten @ level 2 w/ Rapid Recovery talent. Aloth Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 12 - 10 - 11 - 16 - 16 - 13 Gotten @ level 2 w/ Blast talent. Durance Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 14 - 15 -- 9 -- 9 - 13 - 19 Gotten @ level 3 w/ Interdiction talent. Kana Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 16 - 12 --9 - 14 - 17 - 10 Gotten @ level 3 w/ Ancient Memory talent +Seems to gain +2 Intellect from quest(?) at some point along the way. Sagani Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 13 - 14 - 11 - 18 - 11 - 10 Gotten @ level 4 w/ WF: Peasant and Faithful Companion talents +Marked Prey and Wounding Shot abilities Pallegina Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 12 - 13 - 11 - 15 - 13 - 14 Gotten @ level 4 w/ Intense Flames and WF: Soldier +Lay On Hands ability Hiravias Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 14 - 15 - 14 - 13 - 11 - 10 Gotten @ level 4 w/ Bonus Lvl 1 Spell and WF: Peasant talents Grieving Mother Mig- Con- Dex- Per- Int- Res 11 - 12 - 16 - 17 - 12 - 10 Gotten @ level 4 w/ Draining and Biting Whip talents I should've waited to make this thread and put in the OP. Ah well.

Just finished grabbing them all, Grieving Mother wasn't where I expected heh, and instead in one of the places I was less likely to look. And her attributes are terrible too. The devs definitely didn't realize Might/Int = the caster stats, unequivocally. I am looking forward to fixing them. I might go through the game without any of the pre-mades this time, it'll leave some interesting content for my second play-through when I can tweak them with a mod.

Yeah, it definitely feels like my PC is carrying the group way too much. At this point he has done multiple times the damage of Aloth and Eder - granted the intro they're not present for and the PC gets a bit ahead from that, but not enough to come even close to closing the gap. Numbers right now are - Eder ~2200 Aloth ~1850 PC ~7050 Overall it doesn't feel like I'm playing a well composed group, it's my PC doing most of the damage while hiding behind a bunch of useless meat shields that feel like they were made with a character randomizer. Aloth is a bit better once you fix his Grimoire selection to not be horrible(and more focused on debuffs since his damage sucks) but it takes awhile before you can do that. And he still drops like a stone if anything attacks him, so his high perception definitely isn't helping anything and would be much better spent raising Might/Int more. Pallegina is kind of like Eder, just kinda meh stats - a little more defensive w/attributes but then comes with two talents that prevent me from being able to make her into a decent tank. Paladin is just a solid class right now though so I may stick with her. I'm thinking I'll use a hired adventurer to build one real tank, then use Pallegina, Kana Rua, my PC, maybe Grieving Mother if she's decent, Aloth will be put on debuff duty and I'll hire another adventurer to have a second competently build damager.

Got Sagani and Hiravias. Hiravias at least has somewhat sensible talent choices if they were assuming Shapeshift is worth spending talents on which it isn't(weapon focus peasant I assume is aimed @ unarmed for shift) and bonus lvl 1 spell isn't the worst thing in the world I guess. His attributes are.. well the total lack of int is bit confusing for a druid. He kinda looks like someone just hit the random roll button in the old 2e IE games. Sagani I'm not sure is salvageable + ranger is already underwhelming. I definitely won't be using her. At least spellcasters can be decent w/bad attribute spreads just 'cause spells do other things than damage. I am trying to rush through areas finding the companions to get them as low level as possible to save as many talents/abilities as I can, I think I've only got Grieving Mother(and I think I know where she is) and Pallegina(know where she is) to go now. Uh... completely fine? Happier than I am now with him definitely.

In the order I've picked them up: 1. Eder. Eder is pretty mediocre but nothing particularly ruinous either. His first talent is one of the worst picks possible though, and he doesn't seem built well for durability or damage. He's very "meh". 2. Aloth. Aloth's attributes are pretty really bad. He has 9pts spent in deflection attributes above the base, that he gets almost nothing out of while his might is very low. His spell selection is also awful. There's no Slicken. There's no Eldritch Aim. He has a useless touch spell and deflection boosting spell. 3. Durance. Durance has very excessive resolve but whatever at least it's a bit more useful than Aloth's 16 perception since. Talent selection though... bear's fortitude? Ugh. There are plenty of no-particular direction priest talents that are way better. Interdiction is what I'd have put on him. Bear's Fort is like throwing that first talent away, and Priest is a class that's already talent starved due to so many Interdiction/Holy Radiance talents you want. 4. Kana Rua. Poor chant and invocation choices, otherwise a decent build. He's workable. Also Aloth or Kana really should have had mechanics boosted. I don't know why it got put it on Durance. He starts with 3 which is somewhat acceptable for early areas but a bit of waste to put it on a class with no bonus. I really can't wait for a mod that lets us build them from scratch. I don't want to go without the banter and extra dialogue and so on but their builds are driving me a little nuts right now. I was hoping the early-game companions would be a little more practically built. Hopefully the other companions are in better shape.