Marceror

I've got more than 200 hours clocked in WL2 and feel I understand the mechanics pretty well. Here are a few things to consider: Having a highly skilled party is going to eliminate A LOT of headache, and maximizing skills can be accomplished via INT (bump to 4 for 3 survival points per level, 8 for 4 and 10 for 5, below that you get only 2). But you can't just expect to throw all of your points into INT and expect to do well. In combat, what is most important is your character's Combat Initiative (CI) followed by Action Points (AP). A character with high CI might be able to take 3 turns in the time that a character with low CI can. It doesn't matter how skillful your character is if they don't get to fire their weapon. Non combat skills that you are going to want to have, in a very, very general order: Leadership (give to a high CHA character for a large radius of influence, increase hit chance for all party members, and decreases chance of your "hirelings" going rogue. When you hirelings go rogue, they are generally going to F up your tactics, so you don't want that to happen. Field medic (XP) - this is your heal ability, give this to at least one of your team members. You can't use this ability to help a dying character (i.e. knocked below 0 CON), so you also need: Surgeon (XP) - when a character is "dying", bleeding out, diseased, etc. etc. this is where you need a surgeon. Lock Picking (XP) - there are LOTS of locks Safe cracking (XP) - there are LOTS of safes with good items, ammo, and other stuff that you're not going to want to have to pass up Awareness - Allows you to see traps, find hidden stashes buried in the ground, and increases your sight radius. It also allows you to notice things about people that you otherwise might not. Very important skill Demolitions (XP) - basically this is a disable trap/landmine skill, and there are A LOT of traps in the game now. Computer science (XP) - This comes in handy a lot. There are plenty of electronic locks (doors/safes), and you are occasionally going to find computers that you can hack into to make your life easier. In some cases this skill is needed to complete a quest with a positive result. The Ass Trio - Smart Ass, Kiss Ass, Hard Ass (Group XP) - Opens up options in dialogue that you wouldn't otherwise have. Sometimes this means you can get an item donated to the group, convince a leader to go along with your idea, or just generally get more information out of someone. Useful to have all 3 in your party. The whole group gets XP when used. Outdoorsmen (XP) - Allows you to avoid random encounters encounters on the world map, as well as solve certain problems that require outdoorsy knowledge. Alarm disarm (XP) - there are a lot more alarms in the game now. Not nearly as many as traps, but you're going to want to have someone who can help you bypass them. Weaponsmithing (XP) - trick out your weapons with mods that make them far more effective. Mechanical repair (XP) - there aren't a ton of direct uses for this, but it comes in handy several times. I wouldn't prioritize this immediately, but make sure to throw at least a few points into it. Also it was recently "buffed" to allow a chance to repair safes/doors/etc if your "infiltrator" character critically fails in their attempt to get past them. Otherwise, a critical failure means that you've lost your opportunity. Toaster repair (XP) - fairly useful. Generally toasters allow you to find a unique item, that if you give it to the right person you will get a reward. Don't sell the items you get from a toaster. Animal whisperer (XP) - Not essential, but can provide some decent stat bonuses to a character. A goat, for example, gives "devil eyes", +1 to awareness. Barter - not super critical. Maybe give a few points to a hireling to get better buy/sell rates with vendors. Unless indicated, having a single character assigned to each skill is sufficient. Skills indicated with (XP) give your character XP when used (just the character that used it) I should also point out that my observations are based on playing the Arizona portion of the game. I haven't gotten to CA yet, but I imagine a well built party is going to do well there also. I generally try to have 2 smarties (10 INT), 1 ranged god, usually a sniper (high coord/agil), and one melee god (high str/agil/speed). Higher strength also means more carrying capacity, which unlike in PoE is a big deal in WL2. As previously mentioned, spread out your combat skills, so you can spread out who uses what ammo. A few comments here: Having a sniper is essential, but their weapons are only effective at long range. They have excellent range, but are slow to fire. Choose either a pistol or a melee weapon as a secondary. Assault rifles are the most "general purpose" weapons there are. A couple of guys with this weapon is a good idea. It has great range (not as good a sniper rifle, obviously) and is effective up until point blank range. More advanced assault rifles have different firing modes, making them even more tactically advantageous. SMGs - An effective short-ish range weapon. Not essential to have, but I always try to have one person spec'd in this. Energy weapons - Effective only against high armored targets, like synths and a few others. I wouldn't start with this skill, but you're going to want one or two of your squad to add it later. Handguns - A great short ranged weapon that can fire quickly. Usually not a good choice for a primary weapon, but it's an excellent backup weapon. Heavy weapons - Includes machine guns, RPGs, and grenade type weapons. It's a fairly expensive category, so I would only assign as a secondary weapon skill. Best to give to one of your melee characters IMO, since the weapons are very heavy. A high STR character can handle the weight though. Not an essential category, since you can still lob grenades without it. I usually give it to one particular hireling you can meet in the game and add to your squad. Shotguns - can be your best or worst friend depending on the situation. They damage an area, so as long as that area doesn't include friendlies, not a bad way to go. Also has low armor penetration. Blunt weapons - a great weapon for your main melee tank character, with a devastating critical hit. Bladed weapons - less overall damage than blunt weapons, and less critical damage, but higher chance to critically hit. Brawling - A very quick way to attack, but with low armor piercing, so best against low armor targets. Remember, you start with 4 characters that you can pre-generate, but you can add up to 3 more for a total party size of 7. You can use your hirelings to cover some of the skills. Some NPCs wont' join if your party's overall CHA is too low. Also, remember that CHA grants a bonus to non-combat XP, so it's good to have some CHA for your characters who will do a lot of the non-combat skills. For your leader/face character, shoot for 8 - 10 CHA. That should at least get you started....

I guess he'd rather have a "quiet" place to discuss his ideas rather than deal with the raging hordes all the time. So that's why he's using a site that you have to pay to post on. Honestly, I get it. If I were JES, I don't think I'd particularly enjoy posting my ideas here, since I doubt I'd have time to wade through 10+ pages of comments, which can happen in a day on a particularly busy day.

For as much as a grognard as I can be, I'm honestly not pissed about not having traditional D&D style alignment. I always found it a little restrictive. People are much more complex than the alignment system portrays. It's rare that a person is truly evil or truly good. People are more nuanced than that. Reputation feels like like it supports that better.

Is so very very annoying. Once you get more comfortable with the controls you shouldn't have this problem. I've been playing most of the day, and haven't had this issue a single time. Maybe it's just me, seven hours and I'm still doing it. I should clarify, I've put in, err, around 200 hours during the beta.

Is so very very annoying. Once you get more comfortable with the controls you shouldn't have this problem. I've been playing most of the day, and haven't had this issue a single time.

It's up to the Steam server. And even then, *eye roll*. Pfeh. The Steam server is PART of it, but is absolutely not what I'm talking about. The devs actually have to deliver a completed game in order to Steam to deploy it. That's the challenging part. The Steam part is hardly worth mentioning.

Back in the day I played plenty of MechCommander, the expansion and even more MechCommander 2, including numerous fan made campaigns, including the excellent Exodus campaign by Magic. In fact, in 2012 I even completely rewrote the manuscript for the Exodus campaign for Magic, since writing was not his strong suit. It was a pretty decent story I think, tacked on to an amazing campaign. But I think he got so overwhelmed with all the changes he was trying to institute into the game that he never got around to releasing it. Maybe one day. At any rate, I would pretty much kill for a "spiritual successor" to MechCommander. And would be plenty happy if it was turn based or RTwP as the originals were.

Party created and ready for service with the desert rangers. Starting at ranger difficulty, one down from the hardest.

Starting... Wasteland 2

They actually launched on time. Amazing! I hope OE is taking notes on this!

6 hours, 49 minutes to go!

I'm not sure how close it is to Jagged Alliance as I've never played it. I did take a peak at a lets play hoping to give you a better answer. There are some similarities. Might be easier if I just describe. In MechCommander you traditionally play as an up and coming a mercenary commander. You job is to direct a team of mech-warriors in the field over a series of missions. You tend to start with mostly green pilots and perhaps a couple of regulars. You also tend to have just a few light mechs that aren't particularly impressive -- generally they have only short and medium range weaponry, and not the good stuff. Before a mission (usually) you have time to choose which mechs you want to take into the field, and you are limited by a maximum drop weight tonnage. So do you want to take fewer heavier mechs or more lighter mechs? Or a mix? You can usually customize the mechs with the weapons you have on hand, and try to establish a load out that is a good complement to a particular pilot's skills. You can also choose to add more armor in lieu of additional weaponry and many mechs can be outfitted with jump jets (jump that thing over walls, or right behind an enemy mech for a flanking attack). In addition to light and medium mechs, there are also heavy mechs, and the extremely powerful assault mechs. Your pilots can specialize in different mech weight classes, and they will be more efficient if they pilot that sort of mech. They can also specialize in different classes of weapons in order to gain an accuracy bonus with them. There are other specialties such as jump jets, scouting, sensor specialist, and toughness (reduces chance of dying if a pilot is forced to eject from their mech). Over time your pilots increase in rank (green, regular, veteran, elite and ace) and gain additional and more advanced skills. Ammo management is a factor for weapons that require ammunition (machine gun arrays, autocannons, missiles, etc). You can also equip lasers, plasma rifles, etc. which don't use ammunition, but generate more heat for your mech. Always the trade offs. Your goal isn't just to win missions, but also to pick up salvage. If you can defeat an enemy mech-warrior without utterly destroying his mech, you may be able to add the chassis and weaponry to your personal inventory. What I really love about MechCommander is squad dynamics. You generally want to have your scout, who will pilot a light mech that can move at high speeds. Having a sensor specialist with long range sensors is invaluable. You will also want to have some heavier mechs to be your punching bags, and ensure you have a nice mix of short, medium and long range weaponry. And you can have anywhere from 1 to 16 mechs in the field at the same time (though 4 - 8 is more the norm). When resources permit, you can call in airstrikes, resource trucks, and other boons. And there's plenty more. So yeah, if that sounds like Jagged Alliance with Mechs than there you go. To me it just sounds like a whole lot of tactical gameplay awesomeness.

The cloak says to the amulet, "this bar ain't big enough for the two of us." "Oh yeah," questions the amulet, glaring from it's one eye. "Well my neck loving brilliance will be staying. You can piss off, you dirty piece of cloth." The rings plead, "hey guys, there's room enough for both of yas! No need to argue." "Hmm... maybe you're right," says the cloak hesitantly. "I suppose so," agrees the amulet. And just then a bunch of kill-joy posters enter the bar and start spouting something about balance this and balance that. And from there things really got ugly. That was the last time anyone ever heard from old cloaky. Was a real sad day.

Yep. You totally called it Gromnir! I mean there's Marceror over there, salivating over amulets and cloaks like a love starved nymphomaniac. And Elerond actually thinks he's going to have a conversation that's above the level of grunts and snarls with such a character? Preposterous!

I had forgotten about this. I guess I have no choice but to hereby retract this thread.

@Elerond the word basically is key in post you linked. There is a difference between basically all and all. And yeah, there was some hyperbole in there for sure. I'm not sure what you mean by this. I don't recall saying anything insulting about you, but please know that was never my intent.

Come on Sensuki. What's with all the positivity? Channel your inner ****.

I've already explained the point of the thread as clearly as possible. I'll leave the balancing to OE. I asked point of thread because you don't actually give any rational point for it in whole thread There's a saying among jazz lovers... "if I have to explain [jazz music] to you, you won't understand." This thread was never meant to be expository, an essay, or even an argument for a particular viewpoint. It's simply an acknowledgment of a great, tried and true, RPG formula for character equipment. If you don't get it, that's fine, but in that case I'm really not talking to you. I most certainly never said that "all other crpgs" do this. Further, as I explained to Gromnir, you never asked for my reason for wanting this. You asked the point of the thread. If you wanted to know former, than that's what you should have asked. I went ahead and answered the question you actually asked. You can't convince me that PoE couldn't be balanced to accommodate an amulet and a cloak at the same time. OE is not made up of incompetent baboons. I'm betting they could balance just about anything. If the game is currently balanced for only one of those items, that's not the result of some magical irreversible formula. But frankly, I'm not convinced that the game even is balanced in this regard yet. The game still has a long way to go, and fine balance between items I expect still requires plenty of tuning. And as long as that tuning still needs to be done, the game could be conceivably tuned using the configuration promoted in this thread. Easiest and fastest doesn't sound particularly inspired to me, but to each their own. And further, please understand that when I make a thread like this I'm not expecting Obsidian to throw off their entire production schedule for the sake of a suggestion. I'm just throwing my opinion out there because, well, that's what we do on message boards like this. I'm happy to see plenty of other forumites who agree with me, even if OE never acknowledges this post in the slightest (which is exactly what I expect will happen).

That was clearly the magical formula. Adam wasted no time responding after that. I guess someone is probably going to need to send those promised rewards over to the OE office tomorrow, lest the lead programmer go on strike.

I have a slightly twisted sense of humor. Don't overthink it. Elerond was asking me the point of this thread. The point is very simple, and I reiterated it to him. Then he started asking me if the point was something other than what I stated (something about balancing, if I recall), and I went ahead and reminded him that I had already explained the point. If I say the point is x, and someone asks if the point is y, I find that odd. No, the point is x, just as I stated. Also, he never asked me why I wanted this change. He asked me the point of the thread, which is a different question. So I didn't see any reason to answer a question that hadn't been asked. If we're asking why I want this, yes, a big part of it is the fact that this configuration is deeply ingrained in me (and many other fans, I take it) over many dozens of RPGs that I've played over the years. Also, I happen to find an inventory slot that swaps cloaks and amulets as rather bizarre and illogical. Just give us one of each. There's room in the UI for it, so why not let us have both. Take away something weird and illogical and replace it with something logical, that adds to the customizability of our characters? Seems like an obvious change to me. Also, I'm not "demanding" anything in this thread, so please stop putting words in my mouth. I'm simply making my preference known. I never stated Obsidian needs to make the change (i.e. a demand). This is a subtle, but rather important difference.

*Thank you* for the update Adam! Keep up the good work.

*sigh* elerond were/is the rational one. that were our point. to him we said, "don't be rational when somebody is demanding stuff be more like previous games... with the only apparent reason seeming to be that such is how things were done in previous games." am knowing our posting style can confuse, but this doesn't appear to be a case where we were obscure. HA! Good Fun! I got that you were calling him the rational one, evidenced by the fact that I said "if Elerond's the rational one, I guess that makes me the lunatic." (slight paraphrase) I followed you just fine. Not sure why you are thinking otherwise.

Not so sensitive really. I was laughing as I typed my post. Just thought if Elerond was the rational one, I guess that would make me a raving lunatic. It's funny. At least I think so. Hey, maybe I really have cracked!

don't be rational when somebody is demanding stuff be more like previous games... with the only apparent reason seeming to be that such is how things were done in previous games. you take away such appeals and near 1/2 of the threads/posts on this board would disappear. HA! Good Fun! ps we want an option for a devil's haircut Right. Clearly I've lost my mind because I want 2 rings, an amulet and a cloak. Watch out. I just might snap!

I've already explained the point of the thread as clearly as possible. I'll leave the balancing to OE.