illathid

Me. I can't stand Arcanum. The music makes me want to slash my wrists. I don't like Fallout 1 either. Bwahahahahhahaha. The feeling of liberation is like fire flowing through my veins. OMG .... What is your place here, why did you even back this game guys ? Didn't the 'bring back the magic of the old games' sign at the door make you turn the other way ?? Someone can like some old school games and not others. I loved BG 1 & 2, IWD 1 & 2, but have tried multiple times to get into Arcanum but I just can't do it.

Vol, you said rogues should not be as good as fighters in a fight. What metric are you using? Max damage? Average damage? Ability to take a hit? Battlefield control? Protecting allies? Some other thing I haven't mentioned? As I see it there are lots of ways a caharacter can be good in fight. Does the fighter need to be better in everything or just some? I'm trying to unpack your statement.

See, I would argue that EULA is in itself a mechanism to manage your rights. It is a binding agreement between the parties who have agreed to it. First sale doctrine is about distribution rights and the Sony v. Universal was a matter of copywrite law. Niether is that relevant to the fact you are only licensed to use software you've purchased, you are not the owner. You seem to be conflating the "right to sell" a posession as "full ownership," which is not the case.

So, after reading the past few pages of this thread I've decided I'd rather not interact with some of the people who have been posting here. Does this forum have an ignore function? I've checked the few obvious places, but thought I'd ask in case I'm missing something.

Yeah, and I don't mean to say that it's wrong to do that either. I just can't but help shake my head during most discussions about DRM because of how many people fundamentaly don't understand the nature of the software license. You are right that there is a big difference between the two extremes, but they're both still on the DRM spectrum.

I personally just think people grumble about Steam DRM due to inertia. There's a lot of us though who won't buy a game that has DRM period though. Which is why I end up not owning many modern PC games that aren't indie. If I can't feel like I genuinely own what I purchase I don't want it, and I can't feel that way with DRM. If they sell the game through Steam with DRM, I don't care.. but if that was the only way to get it? I'd request my money back. I used to think we could own software too and was concerned about DRM, and then I went to law school... Seriously though, the whole DRM v. no-DRM fight was lost decades ago when it was decided that the best way to sell software was through licensing. The software liscense you agree to when installing pretty much any program is at its core managing your "digital" rights. There are more restictive ones and less restrictive ones, but all of them limit your rights in the way you use the software.

Old paradox released bug-ridden games and then followed them up with free support for months or years on end. You didn't want to buy a Paradox game on the release date, but in a few months you'd (in many cases) have a fantastic strategy game on your hands. Yes, when you bought the expansion. Paradox Devs have said that the current model lets them put out more free patches and content than the older system, and I'm one to believe them. Also, Fred Wester has said a few times that the reason their earlier games were so buggy was because they literally ran out of money had to just put the game out there so they could get money to keep the lights on. I'm more than okay with paying a bit more money to make sure one of my favorite game companies can keep making games I love that you can't find anywhere else. Umm... What? You're the one who thinks Paradox is trying to 'nickel and dime our customers for everything they have' not me. I think they DLC policy is actually really nice and I'm entirely behind it. Here's the what the discussion has been so far (apologies in advance for the hyperbole): You: the new Paradox DLC makes me think they're trying to 'nickel and dime our customers for everything they have.' Me: I disagree, the new DLC policy lets you get the content you want without having to pay for the content you don't want. You: yeah, but they're probably inflating the price of each part. Couldn't they offer all of it for one lower price? Me: they probably could but there might be other consequences to doing that which I'd rather not have. You: that's a false dichotomy. Anyways, Paradox is experimenting with the DLC model. Rajas of India includes both the Indian face pack and unit sprites, and it costs $15. So who knows, maybe you'll get your wish?

I've seen this sentiment before I just really don't get it. What's wrong about selling it in separate pieces? I have more than a few friends that couldn't care less about unit sprites, music, and face packs. Why should they have to pay the extra $5 to $10 dollars just to be able to get the expansion stuff they want? It's not like if they included them all in one pack the price would remain the same. Regardless, that's not how it will work with PoE. When I see a whole crapload of unit packs being sold for $2 a pop, with another $2 for music and $2 for portrait packs and $2 for this and that and everything else, I don't get the sense that Paradox is helpfully separating content so as to limit price for customers who aren't interested in all their content. I get the sense they're deliberately separating content so as to inflate price and force people to pay more than they normally would if they want the complete package. You really think it would destroy their bottom line to add in music to a map pack with a few new events and gameplay mechanics they're currently selling for $15? Would it destroy their bottom line? Probably not, but it might mean the have less leeway to do things like bug testing and polishing. Do you remember when HoI3 was released? Now compare that to EUIV.

I've seen this sentiment before I just really don't get it. What's wrong about selling it in separate pieces? I have more than a few friends that couldn't care less about unit sprites, music, and face packs. Why should they have to pay the extra $5 to $10 dollars just to be able to get the expansion stuff they want? It's not like if they included them all in one pack the price would remain the same. Regardless, that's not how it will work with PoE.

Down with simulationism!

I think the issue is in examples you're using. The idea of the "threshold of usefulness" (something you may wish to run ahead and get a copywrite on before I do) is a very fair point and makes a lot of sense, but then you go on to talk about the dps of fighters and rogues which isn't an example people are getting on board with because they don't see things in the same way. Perhaps because they view the threshold as being party-specific rather than member specific, or simply because people aren't opposed to the existence of contingency classes and jack-of-all-trades. See part of the problem is that many of us have an eye for optimization and don't even realize it. So because we play RPGs and want to be effective we will jump through all sorts of hoops make a rogue that doesn't fall below the "threshold of usefulness" when fighting undead, for example. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with rogues. If the only way to meet that "threshold of usefulness" is to do a variation of one specific build, it makes rogues as whole a less interesting class to play. Err... I hope that made sense. Basically, what I am trying to say is I agree with Jarrakul.

Well I'm not a lawyer (yet*) but that is not how I understand the law to work in the United States, although it could be that way in the EU or Finland. *I will be done with law school by the end of May, and will hopefully be a fully licensed member of the bar by October.

While I see what your saying about legal liability, wouldn't that require an actual violation of your license agreement? At least with CKII & EUIV the flash drive transfer we've been talking about is perfectly fine. I understand it isn't the case with all companies regarding their DRM, but it at least has been with the newer Paradox games that have been released, and I see no reason why that wouldn't continue to be the case with PoE.

See, the thing about D&D is the baggage it has around the name. It is my option that many people who disliked for 4e did so because it was too different from what they were used to. I mean look at what happened to Dark Heresy 2e. If D&D 4e had been released as a complete new RPG system, I think a lot of the people who hated it wouldn't have. And while you're joking, there is some truth to it. It's not outside the realm of possibility that 4e, plus the recession, could be what causes the eventual collapse the RPG portion of WotC.

See I get what you are saying about online activation being a form of DRM, but I am almost 100% sure that is not the case with newer PDS games. As it stands, the files have to be downloaded and updated using the steam client (legally), but there is no "activation" to speak of. This is why you could then place the files on flash drive or cd without running it once, and put them on a computer with no internet connection and everything would work fine. If GOG suddenly required you to use their client download any game from them would you consider that DRM? Regarding the boxed copies, iirc any boxed copies of CKII that were done by PI were of the GamersGate version. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason that any PI game has DRM is because that's what the developer wanted, not PI.

Just noticed I do not have a K as I should. Thanks in advance!

Of all the editions of D&D I've played and DM'd, 4e was by far my favorite. Unlike the OP, I thought each of the classes really did a good job of feeling different. Defenders felt different from strikers, and rangers felt different from rogues. I also really appreciated how the designers tried very hard to make sure every class was effective in combat from level 1 to 30. You didn't have classes balanced like 2e wizards where they would be very weak at low levels and godlike at high levels. It had its flaws, but I'm glad that PoE seems to be taking some of it's better points and integrating them into its rule set. I think it's been mentioned before, but I personally would love to see a PnP version of Pillars of Eternity.

Well, so what are these: And I'm sorry, but one can't dismiss online activation even though you have to buy the game on a website. Because on each install, the game requires to be online to activate it. That's the whole point of DRM-free webstores like GOG or DotEmu: yes you have to be online to purchase and to download but that's it. You can install your games on a offline machine, no need to install another software, no need to have a web connection. Burn DVDs or transfert on a HDD, and install into the offline machine. You could say that the no-steam.exe allows you to copy the installed files to transfert them manually, but it's a workaround, and in the first place, again, Steam is used as an online activation DRM. So again, I disagree. For someone like me, using a Linux PC only to go online to purchase goods, to browse the web, etc... and using another offline Windows PC to play Windows games, and using another PC which is a data server (where I store my backups, installers, saves) in a local network, well it's important. My boxed copy of CK2 disagrees with you. Mount & Blade isn't a Paradox Development Studio game, Its developed by Tale Worlds and published by Paradox Interactive. At ve Kılıç edition (aka Turkey edition) of that have 2 options. You can install from disk and later manually download patches from taleworlds.com or you can activate and download it at Steam. Those CK2 and EU4 boxes isn't maked by paradox. Third parties buy the "steam key" from paradox or other stores then sell the keys in a box. It isn't different than cd key seller web sites. Yeah, exactly. Those were not made by Paradox. Also, I'm really not sure what Huinehtar means by no-steam.exe. CkII and EUIV have only one exe included in the game, and it never requires steam. it's possible to download EUIV to a flash drive, put into another computer and play without it that computer using or connecting to steam.

IIRC game mechanics can not be copyrighted, which is part of the reason Pathfinder is a thing right now. So even if PoE does just copy the Baldur's Gate spell list whole cloth, there's nothing illegal about it. Whether it is a good idea or not is another question, but still.

As I previously said, Paradox keep a no-steam.exe, but they stick to Steam online activation, what is just a move from other web services online activation, like the Vicky 2 addon - a House Divided - IIRC, which needs an online activation at their own website during the install. There was controversy IIRC when they released the boxed version of Vicky 2 + a House Divided, and the DVD setup only installed the original game, you should go register to their website to have a House Divided. So basically, the boxed version was useless. That didn't happen for Vicky 1 and its addon Revolutions, since boxed Victoria Complete Pack doesn't have any DRM at all. Again regarding boxed copies, if you compare to the other series, Crusader Kings II or Europa Universalis IV need Steam to be installed, but Europa Universalis III Chronicles and Crusader Kings Complete Pack didn't have any DRM just like Vicky Complete Pack. They now require a Steam online activation at install for every boxed game they make and/or produce for few years. Even though they can provide a no-steam.exe, Paradox still use Steam as an online activation DRM. Thus, they aren't anti-DRM anymore, no matter what they can say. Ummm... Paradox Development doesn't do boxed copies for thier games anymore. The only way to get CKII, EUIV, or HoI4 (when it is released) is by downloading it. There are no boxed copies. With CKII do you could either download it from Steam or Gamersgate. They eventually stopped the Gamersgate version because it was causing too much trouble maintaining two version and only 2% of all copies were from Gamersgate. It is disengenuos to say that they require online activation if the only way to get it is online. So, yes they can say they are Anti-DRM.

They used to be anti-DRM until few years ago. Their games usually have now a no-Steam.exe but Paradox moved recently to Steam-online-activation only. And I don't see them changing their stance on Steam anytime soon, since they say loudly how they love it. Sad... Steam may not be terrible, (Starforce/SecuROM/Origin/GFWL/Ubiplay terrible), but still a far cry from DRM free... Just to be clear, Paradox Development games do not require any connection to Steam other than to download, update, or use multiplayer. I could link posts from Paradox devs describing exactly how to get one thier games running on your computer without it ever having it used Steam or Steam getting any information about you. Granted this requires a friend with steam on thier computer and creating a false steam account and paying with Steam gift card. Regardless, the point is that Paradox is generally very anti-DRM still, even with thier adoption of Steam.

I think the dialogue should be similar to how GrrM did it in a Song of Ice and Fire. It's English, but it isn't modern or archaic English. It is its own thing.