Delicieuxz

Delicieuxz. Signifying that I'm missing my K badge

Have you completed the Pledge Management process? Oddly, I had the same issue, though it's possible that I just hadn't hit Confirm Order at the end of the process. Now, though, I have an interesting second issue, which is that I only have a Backer badge, and not a Kickstarter badge, though I backed the project through Kickstarter. Maybe it just takes time to start showing up.

Yup!!! The Wasteland 2 is DRM-free, and exclusive to Steam :) That's great, and I hope Obsidian aren't going to do the same!! Oh, the cross-platform support of Steam is one of the biggest features of all, I can't believe I didn't mention that :doh!: Cross-platform, DRM-free, cloud-saves, 2-click install, inviting friends to game through the friend's list, and built in community features, biggest and cheapest sales... Why even have an alternative, apart from to satisfy people's ignorance? Being against Steam is nothing more than counter-culture demonstration at this point, and has been for years. (I'm all for alternatives, but I'm mirroring people's foolishness in asking others why they should care about whether there's a Steam version, and the question actually makes 100%sense when reversed, while it doesn't the other way. So let's just have a Steam version!)

Pledge credit allotment question, but I figured it out.

GoG is zero DRM, Steam still needs to hang around in the backend Incorrect. There are lots of DRM-free games on Steam. Even Skyrim was DRM-free on launch, until Bethesda patched the exe to require Steam. "To clarify: There isn't any Steam DRM in the ArtRage 4 build for Steam, you can run it directly from a shortcut if you create one (Steam does not need to be running). - Art Rage 4 dev Uh... what? How about DRM-free, platfor-independed self-executable single file installation that you can use when the internet goes down? Cause you see - if you got steam version: you still can't install it withouth internet connection - even if the game itself work just fine. And it's by far more free platform to customers than Steam. Oh - and GoG actually DOES have support that works quite well and tries to help you instead of trying to get rid of you ASAP. Steam support tries to get rid of you? You and I have had very different Steam support experiences. With many interactions across over 300 game purchases, I've only once felt that a responder was curt and didn't go out of their way to be very friendly and exceptionally serving. And Steam support knows what they're doing, to be contrasted with, say Origin support who, although often very nice, are not technically knowledgeable and just read out of a script book. DRM-free is entirely possible with Steam, and is the method of countless games. Backing up the folder as an archive and extracting it and running it wherever is an option with Steam, if the developer sets the game to be DRM-free. But, don't take my word for it: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1 And that's a very partial list of DRM-free games on Steam, which hasn't been updated in over a year. It is a common misconception that Steam games require Steam to be running. That's simply an option which the publisher of a game (in this case Obsidian) gets to choose to make use of. Most games do on Steam, but many still don't. And if they don't, then you can back up the folder and run it from anywhere, never having Steam running for anything. If Pillars of Eternity requires Steam to be running on release, take issue with Obsidian, not Steam, because that's up to Obsidian. It's unfortunate that just because Steam offers the option to incorporate DRM, and because most developers/publishers choose to use it, that people come to assume that Steam forces DRM. Blame the publishers, it's their choice. In light of the fact that Steam can serve the purposes of both GoG and Steam users, there's no reason to have a GoG version. Personally, though, I can hardly tolerate playing games without the efficiency, cloud-saves, and ease-of-use increases that Steam offers., as well as things like inviting friends to game through the overlay and ability to stay in touch with people without minimizing a game. No bloat, just many great enjoyment increasing tools. Don't want to like them? Then never run Steam beyond downloading the game initially. The Steam client is a password-secured download delivery system and installer all in one, no different than loggin in on GoG's site, downloading an installer for a GoG game and running it. Except Steam has the benefit of requiring one logging in and one installer download for all games, whereas GoG requires visiting the website, logging in, and separate downloads for every single installer - a waste of effort and time and redundant HDD space consumption for the same installer *whatever-number-of-games, in my opinion.

Integration, safe-keeping / posterity, Steam's many built-in features, game invitations, Steam reviews, Steam forums, game recommendations, Steam groups, community guides, backup option, easiest way to download/install a game, option to make it DRM-free if the developer wishes. I don't think that GoG has anything to offer beyond what Steam does. In light of that, I'd ask what's the point of having a GoG option available, when Steam gives the same option, has a much better future availability outlook, and has multitudes of options available that GoG does not. If people want to download it once and then back it up and copy the folder wherever and have it still run without any need for a client, they can do that with Steam. That covers GoG's contribution right there. Then for everyone who wants to use the vast complimentary user features that Steam offers for their products, and which make playing games so much more hassle-free and enjoyable, those are there for them. It's win-win with Steam.

Well, the suggestion names leads to a bunch of creative thinking of the possibilities for interpretation of the two elements: Underground Gardens Dimensions Warps There could be a couple of levels inhabited by thick prevalent moss and unique dim-light flowers of attractive sorts. There could also be really deep floors that effectively do not take place in that area of the Earth, but warp the player to a different dimension entirely, that could even not take place underground, but could take place on some alien surface. In fact, there could be entry there to a significant portion of the game, taking place on the surface of that alien location - which, somewhere, holds another re-entry to move on to the subsequent lower floor of the dungeon. I expect that the 13 level mega dungeon might become trying after several levels (although your artwork showing the progressing nature of the levels suggests some growth). Some totally unexpected themes, such as that above, would really shake potential monotony and re-alert the player when they're most likely to be in a mental lull.

That's a good read, thanks.

Since Project Eternity is hopefully a labour of love for them, I hope that they will release it in a polished state, but I'm worried, given their track record. Have they said anything about this aspect of the development and release schedule?

I don't suggest that there only be a Steam release, I'd like to see it available wherever people would like to buy it from. I'd just like to see the Steam version have no unnecessary restrictions, particularly when Obsidian show that they are not in favour of those restrictions, themselves.

You can release it on Steam and make it DRM-free, no different than releasing it on Desura and making it DRM-free: "To clarify: There isn't any Steam DRM in the ArtRage 4 build for Steam, you can run it directly from a shortcut if you create one (Steam does not need to be running). - Art Rage 4 dev and List of DRM-Dree Games on Steam: http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1 While you're at it, please also make the Windows Steam version DRM-free.

That's not true, and I think it's been covered multiple times over in the thread already. Check the post directly above yours. Although GOG's system don't give you right to sell games forward that you have bought, as they restrict license owning to your GOG account, but you can give copy of the game anybody you want, in limits of your country's laws. You can do the same thing with DRM-free titles on Steam.

Great list, thanks for posting it! It needs some updating, though, as I know there are other DRM-free titles. Art Rage 4 is one, as the devs said: "To clarify: There isn't any Steam DRM in the ArtRage 4 build for Steam, you can run it directly from a shortcut if you create one (Steam does not need to be running)." Skyrim was also DRM-free at launch, but Beth changed that with one of the early patches. Obsidian, please also make the Steam version DRM-free! You still need an internet connection and GoG's servers to download from GoG, and if you have an internet connection, it doesn't matter where the download source is. Thanks! A lot of people are missing this logic. If it's possible to forego Steam's DRM and give people the choice whether to run with/without Steam in one copy, why would you deny them that choice?

I think the bigger question is: why are these types of responses still coming? What happens when you later want to play with certain Steam features? I know, wait for it... buy a second copy? That's mind-nimbingly illogical when you could have 1 copy that gives you both options. And suggesting that you're opposed to wasting dev time and then wanting them to spend time adding DRM to a game is also illogical. How do some people figure that it takes time to not add something?

Keeping your game library in one place, play options, more established and collapse-proof business. Why would someone oppose having an option that takes no time to implement, that people would make use of, and actually saves dev time?

The line of thinking "I use Steam but I hate it!" is comedy gold. it's hardly naive if you wish for Steam to fail/ be boycotted before its model (which usually includes DRM) becomes dominant in this industry. Not that it wasn't already apparent, but the fight for Steam to have DRM is precisely only so that it looks worse. Hey, let's start demanding that GoG copies lack part of the game, just to f with those customers' ****, too! That's really jerkish. And, yes, it's naive. Because Steam not having DRM in titles would make its model no longer what you're oppressing, and would lead to more titles sold through the medium adopting the example. It's shooting yourself in the foot, and just getting on other people's nerves due to the meaninglessness of it.

Your use of the word "logic" doesn't fit its definition. So... you think Obsidian must have DRM on Steam because it would otherwise deflate the purpose of their being a GoG DRM-free version? Your "point" is that one must shoot oneself unnecessarily in the foot for the pure sake of idiocy. And I've been around since the beginning. The relevant questions are: 1. Why should someone who has the Steam version HAVE to have meaningless DRM? 2. Why would you bother caring that someone else have the option to play DRM though their retailer of choice? 3. Are you about done being a child? What exactly is so bad about Steam's DRM? Is this just irrational hate on your part or do you honestly think Valve is spying on you? Who said I hated Steam DRM? Why would you unnecessarily want something that's unnecessary, and which limits your options? Why would somebody want to be locked into playing either with or without an app running/with or without the benefits of the app? I have nearly 400 games on Steam (over 400, counting collections) and probably more than 50 on GoG. There is a brazen irrationality here where people think DRM is needed for the sake of having a copy with DRM to contrast against the copy without it. I can only guess that these sentiments are coming from very young minds which don't yet grasp what logic is and what it is not. Omitting forced app running if its possible and efficient is logical. Arguing to have DRM in a version of the game where it serves no purpose is not. People who plan to get it on GoG have no motive to insist there be DRM in a Steam copy, except for naive hatred towards Steam and a desire to see it not receive parallel treatment. It's extremely immature and laughably feebly-thought-out.

Your use of the word "logic" doesn't fit its definition, astonishingly. So... you think Obsidian must have DRM on Steam because it would otherwise deflate the purpose of their being a GoG DRM-free version? Your "point" is that one must shoot oneself unnecessarily in the foot for the pure sake of idiocy. And I've been around since "the beginning," lol. The relevant questions are: 1. Why should someone who has the Steam version HAVE to have meaningless DRM, and actually oppose it? 2. Why would you bother caring that someone else have the option to play DRM though their retailer of choice, and actually have a fit over it? 3. Are you about done being a child? You must really hate Steam to meaninglessly fight to see it get implemented with DRM, despite it being unnecessary and an unwanted as a mandate by Steam purchasers. Since you obviously won't use it, why don't you keep silent on the issue and let those to whom it actually relates speak for their own preference? Lol, it would be like Steam people arguing that the GoG version be given DRM just to be annoying. It's an ill-thought-out stance to say the absolute least about it.

Your post did not display logic, and the straws were grasped by your own fingertips. Here's the logic that you're missing: It's irrelevant how many other versions there are without DRM. If DRM isn't needed somewhere, then that's called "good news." Here's another bit of logic which slipped by you: you don't speak for people who use Steam, and to say that people who use Steam don't care about DRM is, honestly, idiocy, and complete arrogance.

Oh, well that I like. I was interpreting "tones" in the likeness of certain games which suggest a positive/neutral/negative remark, or which give only black/white choices. I was testing a certain game recently that, at least in its early form, splits the dialog into such spelled out designations. Mass Effect is another game which likes to split things into good/neutral/bad, and that's just so unappealing, boring, and unnatural. But Lie/Threaten/Convince are very desirable.

Why would you worry about the Steam version being better at no cost to anything or anybody? That's much more futile. Regarding what they'd like, I'm sure they can judge on their own regarding that matter. Speculation here is moot, and if stat feedback is missing a big chunk of the player-base then the relatively small number of people who choose to launch the Steam version outside of the Steam app will not skew things further than they already will be skewed. The detractors here can logically only fall into one of two categories of sentiment: 1. Obsidian are great, don't show them up, leave my Obsidian alone, you hurt them with your words! 2. I hate Steam and don't want it to feature a better product because that will cause people to hate Steam a bit less and I want them to hate it more! Outside of those, there is literally no existing purpose to naysay. Maybe these naysayers simply haven't realized this? Why would you call for a limited and worse product at the cost of additional production effort and time, as opposed to a better and freer product that saves dev time and cost? lol

I really hope for the exclusion of this one: I hate being told in what manner I mean something when I choose an option. This is role-playing, is it not? I don't get to choose how a person responds, but I do get to choose how I intend my comment. There are countless conflicts and disconnects between me and the played-character when a game forces an intention of remark on me. Absolutely hate it to the core.

So you're just a knee-jerk defensist? You don't know a thing about what Obsidian wants, and how would you form a logical argument around Obsidian wanting something unnecessary and unbeneficial, not to mention added work and wasted time (which you pretended to care about), particularly when they openly show and state that they have no qualms with releasing the game DRM-free? They don't need you to come to their rescue, particularly where there is no attack, lol. Maybe you have an idea of less than you think?

It that your sorry excuse for a troll attempt? It would save time to not have to implement Steam DRM. Why do you want Obsidian to waste time to make a locked-down release? Go home.

Or... get it on Steam, run it without Steam and not worry about achievements not tracking? I don't know what achievements even has to do with an issue of Steam not being required to play the game. If people want them they'll obviously have the choice to launch the game through the Steam app and not from the folder exe, lol. And also obviously, an all-in-one package of options would be the best and most desirable thing to have. Why would you hard-lock somebody into one permanent choice when it isn't necessary, beneficial, or easier to implement? Are you assuming that Obsidian are gluttons for the unnecessary punishment of self-and-others?