Hiro Protagonist II
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Everything posted by Hiro Protagonist II
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I'm not the one who linked the article. And getting back to Josh, his design decisions and degenerate gameplay instead of accusing others of confirmation bias? Comment PrimeJunta? -
That's not what I asked. And taking forum posts from this forum is but a small segment of where Josh has posted over the last 15 years and it's very disingenuous to say his forum posts on this forum alone reflects his design goals. So you're data is faulty. And as I said, which you continue to ignore. Wouldn't it be better to focus on Josh and degenerative gameplay instead of random posters on the internet and if those random posters have confirmation bias?
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Okay, so you still want to play this game of some posters on this forum having confirmation bias? Then don't you have confirmation bias as well? You're even trying to form a hypotheses with his forum posting on this forum. And you completely ignore me with wanting to take this off forum posters and back on the topic of Josh's design decisions and the concept of degenerate gameplay. So who has confirmation bias now? No, that would be Josh and with the elimination of degenerate gameplay.
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Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this too. Have played the Beta and really love it. It has a Fallout style to it which I like and also like the 3D direction they took with it.
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No PrimeJunta. No confirmation bias at all and I'm not trying to to confirm my beliefs or hypotheses. Also, are you sure that's not confirmation bias at work where it barely even registers for you? Two can play that game. How about instead of playing games and throwing these 'confirmation bias' accusations at people we actually talk about degenerative gameplay and Josh's decisions? I think that would be better. As I said, Josh's obsession on trying to eliminate degenerative gameplay is legendary. Even back on the BIS boards. And there is a swag of quotes with him bringing up degenerate gameplay and ways to remove the degeneration.
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Damn, this is a minefield. Sorry, I should watch what I'm saying better. It wasn't even directed at you specifically, but rather at the general contingent of people expressing a lot of animus against Josh and his decisions in general. You've mellowed out a lot lately, and I'd hate to harsh that. Well you can understand why some people including myself are expressing concerns and questioning the design decisions he's taken. And with those design decisions which includes taking into account eliminating degenerate gameplay that he perceives are in the IE games. He seems to be caught up on degenerate gameplay and then trying to implement things to eliminate them. Having a look at a lot of his quotes, he includes things like the Stamina/Health mechanic to mitigate rest spamming. And while the Stamina/Health mechanic may also be for the Priest spells, in a couple of interviews I've seen, he's always brought up the rest spamming degenerate gameplay first. It may come across for some people, design by eliminating degenerate gameplay first and then shoe horning in other things that may benefit from it. eg. How do I eliminate rest spamming? Then coming up with solutions. Whether he's done that, I don't know. But his obsession on trying to eliminate degenerative gameplay is legendary.
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I never ranted about how Josh ruined the game by changing the wizard. But nice try to portray me as such.
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They're not assumptions when we have actual quotes from Josh himself.
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Well I would say Josh's intent is flawed. Stop trying to stamp our degenerative gameplay because he saw some let's play youtuber doing something he didn't like and concentrate on making a fun crpg. We would all be better for it.
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And as we've seen, some of the things he thinks didn't work in the IE games and promoted degenerative gameplay are not only present in PoE, but has made them worse and also introduced new ways of degenerative gameplay into PoE that weren't present in the IE games. That's a fail in my book.
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I never said it should spring from the designers head all in one go and ta da, finished complete rules. I don't even know why your bringing that up and then trying to argue against it. The goal may have been clear. An isometric, rtwp, with central hero, world map, exploration, combat, dungeon delving and paying homage to the IE games. That's a goal.
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I've also been following this from the start and it's been design on the run. You even said Josh hasn't finished making up the rules and we're probably a couple months from the game being released.
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Yes he is. It's being made up and changed with no clear direction. With regard to regenerating health and spell cooldowns, we're not intending on having the former ... and spells will not have cooldowns in the way that some people have assumed (per spell). when we discuss spell mechanics, i've tried to use the term "lockout" to communicate that it's much like a sorcerer exhausting an entire level of casting in 3E D&D. - Josh Sawyer
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And it shows. This is what happens when you make it up as you go along. It comes across as laying tracks down in front of on an already moving train and you have no idea where it'll end up or if it will crash.
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I don't think you're alone on that one.
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Which is degenerative gameplay according to Josh.
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Well PrimeJunta, one of the reasons for the current mechanics in PoE is: to mitigate the desire to rest-spam - Josh But then we have the bizarre response from Josh thinking that players will rest-spam anyway in PoE (LOL) so he's upped the level of difficulty with battles in cities to accommodate those rest-spammers because of easy access to inns.
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I've seen a few posts with Josh describing degenerate gameplay and there is no one definition. He moves the goal posts all the time. One day it's this, another day it's that. So it's not a question of what is degenerate gameplay, it's what Josh decides at any given time with what he perceives to be degenerate gameplay.
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I'm not going to get into an argument but I do agree with Indira. It does promote degenerative gameplay. As Josh said:
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ah, okay. Perhaps the devs will add in another line of text for all classes and not just the druid because it shouldn't be only for druids. But it would give the class like the druid that option for their class. Maybe quests in the game should take into account the 'class' aspect to it with extra dialogue options for all classes. I'm sure we haven't see the last of this type of slip up.
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PrimeJunta, I recall a post you made about degenerate gameplay and you gave an example: Now lets apply this to the Beta with the Dragon egg quest. I recall a poster on these forums who didn't want to take the egg whilst roleplaying their druid. Maybe stop the adventurers at the cliff face but also protect the egg due to the whole 'balance of nature' thing? How does a druid who wants to roleplay this type of druid also get rewarded with xp. Why does the druid who does take the egg get rewarded over the druid who want to protect nature? Would you say this is an example of degenerate gameplay?
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Do you want experience from combat?
Hiro Protagonist II replied to DnaCowboy's topic in Backer Beta Discussion
The arguments over the last 2 years have always had people arguing about whether something in real life is implemented or not in a video game. Similarly, you'll have people justifying why something is in the game due to something comparable in real life. Personally, I'll take fun over realism any day. For some people (not me), this is immersion breaking and they need the realism behind it to justify something. Disclaimer: I'm not in favour of the current xp system in PoE. I much prefer how it was implemented in the IE games. -
Sensuki, When you do your attribute thread, it may help to have game visuals to highlight your points. Or other types of visuals if you can't do screen shots from the game. Percentages can get lost in translation or misunderstood but when you see it in the game world, a lot of people will have context and decide if pumping an attribute like INT is worth it. Dependant on spells of course. To take a post from the Codex you could do something like this. Of course doing it for all spells is asking too much. But this example highlights to me that even an INT of 3 is still viable for AoE priest spells like Consecrated Ground.
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I've seen at least one Might dialogue option in the Beta as well as Per, Int and Res. There may be a Dex dialogue option but I don't recall, but will probably be in the final game. Con seems to be the only one that's out of place. It may be in the final game though to balanceTM everything out so there's no dump stats even in dialogue choices. If the game's design with it's flaws will be the same in the final game as it's in the Beta and going by the lack of meaningful and bizarre responses of late from Obsidian (Josh), I'll just edit my stats via a save game editor and bump them up to get all the dialogue options. I'll probably play it once and that's it as I can't see myself replaying this. It really depends on how the final product will ship.
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Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Announced
Hiro Protagonist II replied to CoM_Solaufein's topic in Computer and Console
Bruce is just trolling me like his usual troll self due to the romance threads in the PoE forums. Just look at his responses to me in this thread. It's okay Bruce, I can see you have nothing worthwhile to do than to troll me all over the forums.
