Death Machine Miyagi

There's an example. Four choices, although one is certainly more dark than the other three. Do you: A. Support the NCR, giving the Mojave the most security but putting them under the control of a government that really doesn't care and will just tax them? B. Support Mr. House, who will keep indepence and order (to a lesser extent) but is basically a ruthless "enlightened" tyrant C. Support Caesar's Leion, who are Darwinists that are very brutal with inhumane punishments and slavery, but who also have the most stable lands and little to no criminal activity and a strict ban on drugs and alcohol. D. Support an independent Mojave free of House, the NCR, and the Legion, which may be the only ending with someone in power who is really doing it for selfless reasons (or not, depending on who you are) but then having to deal with the fact it will probably have the highest amount of anarchy. Just between A. and D. alone is "Do I care about safety over freedom, or do I like freedom over safety?" Yep. Basically, when P:E hits the proverbial shelves, I want to see some truly impassioned arguments on these forums about a bunch the choices people made over the game and which were the 'right' ones. If New Vegas had fleshed out Caesar's Legion a little more, it would have been even better. As it stood, three of the choices had pros and cons to them, were arguably better or worse...and the fourth was just clearly bad, involving the Mojave being taken over by a group of misogynistic, slaving, mass murdering Luddites led by a hypocritical thug with delusions of grandeur...or, alternatively, his lieutenant who just likes killing everyone.

Agree. Especially if the game gives you the option to play a selfish/evil character of some sort. Give the character a motivation...an understandable, personal motivation...for wanting to do all the quests and things the game offers, other than 'I get lots of loots and XP.' I shouldn't ever have to wonder why my Chaotic Evil (or equivalent) character gives a flying crap whether Neverwinter gets eaten up by the King of Shadows.

Ah, yes, this reminds me of another critical point: allow some room for the player to use their imagination. You really, really don't have to explain everything. When you explain everything, you leave no room for mystery or wonder. What were the motivations of the Blind Archer? What did the First Incarnation do that was so terrible that a thousand thousand lifetimes of do-gooder stuff wouldn't be able to salvage his soul from damnation? What were the details of the grave crime Morte commited that landed him on the pillar of skulls? What is the TNO's name? And so on, with any number of plot threads. They work best unexplained. Imagine if the game said, 'And now you remember your name was Bob.' The best kind of fantasy/sci-fi, CRPG or no, is the kind that truly makes you believe that the story you're playing/reading/whatever is just one story among many in this world. There were any number of stories before yours, and there will probably be many after, of which you are likely to hear only the most cursory of details. The world did not begin when you rolled your character, nor will it end when the credits start.

I don't think its necessary to have all grey, since even in the Real World there are groups that are pretty much unambiguously a bunch of douchebags. Its why Nazis have been staple villains since the 1930s to today. But for the most part I agree. In particular, give me hard choices. Choices that make me think and reflect on what I (or, at least, my character) really believe. Mask of the Betrayer did a very good job of this. *SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T FINISHED IT* My first playthrough of it was with a Paladin, sworn to a god...and then suddenly, that Paladin was presented with the choice of supporting his god or standing against the suffering of countless people whose greatest 'crime' was not worshipping a god. On the one hand, the argument from the gods that the Wall of the Faithless was absolutely crucial to sustaining existence as a whole, a 'necessary evil' even for the good deities. On the other, the raw gut reaction that mass torture of innocent people can never be justified, and the urge of any decent person to stand against it. I loved that my character was challenged in such a way. When I chose to support the Betrayer's Crusade and stand beside a fallen angel and a demilich even against other paladins, that character felt more like an actual character facing actual conflict than he had at any other point in NWN2. Standing between what was Lawful and what was Good, he chose Good. Its really one of the moments that made the expansion for me. Of course, I think MotB also suffered its own share of plot inconsistencies: if the Wall of the Faithless is necessary to make people worship the gods, why is it that it isn't portrayed as common knowledge for everyone in the realms? Its like the Doomsday Device in Dr. Strangelove; a deterring threat only works if people know its there and how to avoid it. Moreover, if it was made by Myrkul as I seem to recall, then how can it be so pivotal to existence? Myrkul had a definitive start to his reign as God of the Dead; what did they do before then? And so forth.

One major thing that always bugs me: plot consistency. Writers need to figure out what happened when and to whom, remember what they wrote previously, and if they plan on changing it provide some rational explanation for why what the player was given to understand earlier is not true. The treatment of the relationship between Gorion and Charname's mother in the Baldur's Gate series came under discussion on the BG:EE forums for this reason. In the first game, Gorion leaves a letter talking about how Charname's mother was his friend (and, on occasion, lover....ick) for many a season when she was impregnated by Bhaal and died in childbirth. Fine. Then the writers of Throne of Bhaal apparently completely forgot this letter, did not bother to check up on what was written before them about Charname's mother, and instead portrayed mommy as a vicious, child-sacrificing Priestess of Bhaal who Gorion saved you from. There is not even the slightest effort to reconcile these wildly diverging accounts. The end result? ToB's plotting comes across as some pretty lazy, half-assed stuff. There were valiant attempts to reconcile these stories via Fan Wank, but such attempts should not have been necessary. The ToB writers should have checked on what was written before, acknowledged the confusion it could produce, and (if they still intended on going with the new story) attempted to explain it in-game in some fashion. So yes. A good plot involves getting your story straight. How many years ago did something happen? Why did it happen? Who was involved? Why were they involved? And so forth. Remember it. If you can't remember it, store it somewhere where you can check it. Ignore what you have already written in the hopes no one else remembers at your own peril, especially in the age of the internet.

Planescape: Torment leads the poll (Which game hook brought you to Project Eternity and interests you the most?) as to the single game which inspired the most pledges and I'm guessing makes up a big chunk of the people voting 'multiple'. The big selling point of Torment wasn't its combat (pretty lackluster to be honest) or its huge game world (fairly small), but the fact that its plotline left its competitors in the dust. Over and over, on this board, the impression left is that people like a really good story, want to see one in an RPG again, and are hoping P:E will supply it. But that's pretty general. Talking specifics, what do you think are the most important elements in a good CRPG story? What works and what doesn't? What have past games done right and what have they done wrong? Is there a difference between what makes a CRPG story work and what makes a movie or novel or comic or whatever story work?

Too much exposure to the comment sections of any portion of the Internet are liable to kill any lingering faith one has in us as a species. I'm certain the people at Obsidian are Internet savvy enough to know that by now.

I'd rather have 2 or 3 levels full of interesting stuff rather than 14 levels full of same-old-same-old hack 'n slash. I really hope they can do these 14 layers justice and don't just make them 14 layers filled with pointless combat. EDIT: For the record, a dungeon like Watcher's Keep is perfectly acceptable. Plenty of combat, but not completely devoid of context or interest beyond killing things.

I second the notion of a 'Let's Play' on YouTube. It'd be fun to watch streaming and all, but not so fun that I would be willing to set aside that much time watching someone play on their own schedule without the ability to pause and come back where I left them.

Yeah, saw this one coming.

That feels almost biblical.

Haha! I love it! Obsidian has actually been doing a magnificent job of dangling rewards just out of reach lately.

Incidentally, if I'm not around for the last few hours, someone has to post the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyggY_R3jU8

They say they want to make the game better rather than just bigger with the extra money. Maybe not as sexy a stretch goal as a bunch of new classes or races or whatever, but an attitude I very much prefer to 'more is better.'

I do disagree with one of the premises of this thread: that we are here to support Obsidian's design decisions. I will support Obsidian's design decisions if I think they're good. If I don't think they're good, I will criticize them, whether I have a title next to my name or not. I'll do it politely and with the understanding that they'll have the final say, as the developers, but criticize them I will. Everyone else should do the same. There's nothing dignified in being an echo chamber for designer decisions, and a lot more of interest in voicing your own opinions, arguing about what you think works and what you think doesn't work regardless of where Obsidian stands on the issue.

Anyone here been around long enough to remember the Unwashed Villagers, back in the days of Fallout 2? I actually used to post on the Black Isle message board at that time. Basically the equivalent of OO, except without the donation. They received their own random encounter in the game itself, as I recall. The most OO is owed is something similar, though preferably without the smashed fourth wall.

I expect somewhere along the way we'll find 100 named enemy NPCs in a large, cramped room, each with 1 hit point. Which will subsequently be cleared with the equivalent of a single 'fireball' spell. Ha! Suckers.

I know as a goal this isn't as exciting on its face as huge mega-cities and player strongholds. Yet, to be honest, there is nothing they could add at this point that would interest me more than a simple declaration that from now all funds will be used to ensure the product has the time and appropriate funding it needs to be released polished, balanced, and ready to play from start to finish without rampant bugs and CTDs the moment its out the door. Perhaps they already have that money, as some suggest. If so, great. The extra money is just an insurance policy.

I post both here and there under the same user name. So yeah, looking forward to it.

I was very skeptical of reaching this second city when it was first announced. A lot of money to raise in such a short time....but damn, at this rate it would now be a miracle if we don't get it. Well played, gentlemen. Well played.

At $3.6, they promise to use the extra $100,000 to polish everything they've added already to gleaming perfection.

I'm sure Obsidian is aware that, unlike publishers, the people pledging money would rather see a finished game than an early release. If they need the time, they'll take it. Unless they're idiots and don't want people to ever pledge money to them again.

If I were expecting P:E to go the KOTOR route where everyone just passes out when they've been hacked repeatedly with a lightsaber, I would actually find the lack of raise dead to be a negative thing. I think the Obsidian people are smarter than that.

They don't say, but it could be something like Dragon Age where you suffer a bunch of stat-diminishing afflictions until you get the wound properly treated.