ogrezilla

portraits are pretty much completely separate from the rest of the in game graphics I would think.

Chanters and Barbarians seem like they could lean to the evil side without stretching the imagination. Even this paladin is less holy than most. Mages could have necromancer type abilities. Another rogue-like class or two I agree with.

It also gives those of us who are OCD about it something to do. I can't be the only one that systematically clears a map with FoW trying out every bend and corner to remove as much of the FoW as possible you most certainly are not.

They are using the same basic methods as ToEE. So that is the baseline that I am expecting. Anything better than that would be bonus, but anything worse would be a bit of a letdown.

I don't think its like that. Let's say they use your money to make plastic cups and put popcorn in it and then try to sell you soda in the plastic cup you already paid for. Wouldn't you think, hold on I've already paid for the plastic cup, shouldn't I get the discount? that analogy is not good. do you have a problem that the higher tiers getting things like t-shirts and stuff? because they aren't paying to develop those either. I don't think you're game experience is complete if you aren't using a PE mousepad and wearing a PE hat while looking at your cloth PE world map hanging on the wall. You haven't bought anything from anyone on kickstarter. You donated money. They are nice enough to give you free things based on how much you donated. At best, you bought a cup. They gave you free popcorn. now you want free soda too.

- You lose the ability to aim spells effectively because units keep moving all over the place, making it extremely difficult to avoid friendly fire (every time you move your tank, enemies just immediately follow him; you never get a chance to throw a spell after he backs away, nor do you get to open combat with a spell as enemies often are right next to you by the time it goes off) That's not a difference in strategy, its a difference in difficulty. - Movement ranges are meaningless. There's no reason for a unit to stop moving before it gets to its destination, you are describing mechanics. as a counter example, movement speed is meaningless in a turn based game. It results in different strategies, not diminished strategy. and there's usually nothing its opponents can do to stop it before it actually gets there (especially when there's several units moving at the same time) This is purely game design. It has absolutely nothing to do with being real time or turn based. - Initiative is meaningless in real time (which is extremely important in D&D-type systems, as anyone who's ever played a D&D caster will know) Literally moving first is not meaningless. If you can start acting before the opponent knows you are there, you will get a meaningful advantage. If you don't act before they can react, there is no good reason you should get that advantage. That isn't diminished strategy, its different. - You break the action economy (no swift actions, quickened spells, etc.) Cast times and attack speeds largely do the same thing. There's no reason you couldn't include quickened spell mechanics or swift action mechanics into a real time game. In fact, real time games do it all the time. - You lose surprise rounds (even if you notice the enemy first, by the time whatever attack you're using goes off, they'll already have started attacking you back) Same answer as initiative - Attacks of opportunity are a lot less useful. Making a Lockdown build is almost out of the question. That's a game mechanic that could be implemented regardless of real time or turn based combat. It might lead to wonky animations I guess, but there's nothing stopping the mechanic from working in real time. - Attacking is less precise (you lose the ability to strategically use single attacks, full attacks, keeping opponents out of range with bull rushes, etc) Can you explain this? I don't see how it has anything to do with real time or turn based beyond being more difficult to do in real time. You lose the ability to know what the outcome of one attack is before deciding what another should do, but that just changes strategy it doesn't diminish it. - You lose "Ready vs." actions, because everything happens too fast for them to be useful No you don't. They are harder to use, but they can still be used. Especially with pause. - You lose reach weapons, because anyone can just waltz in and out of your threat range whenever they want (again, because everything happens too fast) weapon range is more difficult to utilize. you don't lose it. the strategy is different but its not gone or diminished. And keep in mind, you can move in and out of the enemies ranges too. That's added strategy for real time. - You lose the ability to use positioning to control the battle effectively (i.e. you can't use Enlarge Person on your tank to block a hallway, because it's not tile-based, so anyone can walk wherever they want, whenever they want) Just no. I just blocked a pathway in Icewind Dale with my fighter and paladin while the rest of my party used ranged attacks (included a two handed sword using fighter who could reach over the two in front of him) while the enemies couldn't pass through them. Unit collision doesn't go away when you get rid of tiles. And for the record, you can do turn based games without tile-based environments and you could even do real time games with tile-based environments if you wanted to. - Movement is less precise (you lose 5ft steps, running, withdrawing, etc; anyone can move any distance at any time) You can still keep distance between units in real time. Its harder, but you can do it. You can still have movement modifiers in real time. I'm not sure I get what you mean here. And no, you can't prove something right with one example. You can support an argument with an example, but you can't prove it right with a single example. ToEE being more strategic than NWN2 doesn't mean every turn based strategy game is more strategic than every real time strategy game.

play checkers, then play warcraft 3. There is a huge difference. No, don't do that. Because giving examples that support your argument is not the same as your argument being right. Look, you are making a lot of arguments about your preferences. you are making a lot of arguments about common game design and attributing them directly to the real time system. You even make the ridiculous assertion that real time games can't use positioning to control battles effectively because they aren't grid based. Sure, real time doesn't have movement range. But real time does allow for different movement speeds. Different, not better or worse. Turn based games inherently allow you to have more control than a real time game. That makes it EASIER to use good strategies. But that is not an inherent problem with real time. The strategies are still valid, they are just more difficult (or even impossible) to pull off. Adding in pause eliminates that problem. These points show how strategy is different, but not worse or lessened. - You lose the ability to aim spells effectively because units keep moving all over the place, making it extremely difficult to avoid friendly fire (every time you move your tank, enemies just immediately follow him; you never get a chance to throw a spell after he backs away, nor do you get to open combat with a spell as enemies often are right next to you by the time it goes off) These points are design issues, not real time issues - Movement ranges are meaningless. There's no reason for a unit to stop moving before it gets to its destination, and there's usually nothing its opponents can do to stop it before it actually gets there (especially when there's several units moving at the same time) - Initiative is meaningless in real time (which is extremely important in D&D-type systems, as anyone who's ever played a D&D caster will know) - You break the action economy (no swift actions, quickened spells, etc.) - You lose surprise rounds (even if you notice the enemy first, by the time whatever attack you're using goes off, they'll already have started attacking you back) - Attacks of opportunity are a lot less useful. Making a Lockdown build is almost out of the question. These points are solved by allowing pause (and really aren't removed with real time, they are just very difficult do to controls) - Attacking is less precise (you lose the ability to strategically use single attacks, full attacks, keeping opponents out of range with bull rushes, etc) - You lose "Ready vs." actions, because everything happens too fast for them to be useful - You lose reach weapons, because anyone can just waltz in and out of your threat range whenever they want (again, because everything happens too fast) This point is just plain wrong - You lose the ability to use positioning to control the battle effectively (i.e. you can't use Enlarge Person on your tank to block a hallway, because it's not tile-based, so anyone can walk wherever they want, whenever they want) And I'm not sure what you mean by this one - Movement is less precise (you lose 5ft steps, running, withdrawing, etc; anyone can move any distance at any time)

I can't describe how happy I am to have just ordered this game now that I've seen this picture.

that's because they are packaging all the stuff you hated about D&D Bards into the 3M stretch goal class. Or maybe the main villain

Actually that game seems to be quite a rarity these days, because rights went back to Hasbro and since then it has been unavailable through all digital distributors. Few online shops still have retail copies, but prices are outrageous for 6 year-old game. It's not on Steam anymore? I bought whole NWN2 package from Steam like a year ago because I was missing SoZ. It is no longer on STEAM sadly amazon has 2 copies of mask of the betrayer left for under 8 bucks. they had 3 before i just order mine. NWN2 and MotB for 25 bucks after shipping. SoZ is like 45 though quoting myself because now they have 5 copies left. what the hell amazon tricked me

i wouldn't want it to be required. just something you have the choice of doing if you really aren't sure.

I can't see how that could possibly be an advantage for this type of game, given the enormous amount of strategy you lose when that happens. The only reason I can see for making a system real-time is if you're interested in making the core gameplay twitch-based, like Diablo or Star Ocean. If you ever have to pause, that's a sign that it should have been turn-based in the first place (especially if you end up like the hard mode in Dragon Age, where you're essentially pausing every two seconds and the game becomes much slower than it would have been were it turn-based). I disagree with this post so much there is no inherent loss of strategy between real time and turn based. Real time is much harder to properly implement your strategies, so developers typically design them to require less. But a lack of strategy or tactics is not an inherent quality of real time. RTwP is in my opinion a happy medium between the two. It allows time to actually give commands to multiple units, but it doesn't simplify things to one unit doing something at a time.

Actually that game seems to be quite a rarity these days, because rights went back to Hasbro and since then it has been unavailable through all digital distributors. Few online shops still have retail copies, but prices are outrageous for 6 year-old game. It's not on Steam anymore? I bought whole NWN2 package from Steam like a year ago because I was missing SoZ. It is no longer on STEAM sadly amazon has 2 copies of mask of the betrayer left for under 8 bucks. they had 3 before i just order mine. NWN2 and MotB for 25 bucks after shipping. SoZ is like 45 though

So we will see how PE will look like in 2 days.

I disagree. And rouges/thievs/sneaky types done right are generally done right in a different type of game. Ok, so how is that the save system's fault? You're still repeating this? I'm not (hypotheticly) getting what I want. No matter how many times you repeat it it won't be true. Get that into your thick skull. "I have to live with a little temptation?" Tell you what - how about you get to live with a little bit of (loading-related) frustration? The idea of having to re-do a battle because of a save point bothers you? Well, this bothers me just as much. whatever. I'm glad I'm going to get what I want. Sorry that you won't get what you want.

some sort of test tutorial to help choose difficulty would be a good idea for most games

meanwhile, back at EAware headquarters

A good question. I'm guessing he'll do this as a freelancer? "Have pen, will travel" reads the card of George Ziets

how good must this update be that we aren't even talking about excitement for a promised screenshot on thursday?

I like that it sounds like Paladins are less specific than a lot of games make them.

How cool must it be to be George Ziets and know you are good enough at your job that you are a stretch goal

The classes, they're everywhere!

what? is this supposed to argue FOR reloads as a good measure of difficulty? What if I don't plan to play badly? Counting how many times you reload because you play badly is not measuring difficulty, its measuring how often you play badly.

double post

now, what's the point of tiers below $165? We help to finance the project, yet we have to pay for the expansion. Without backers there would be no game, thus no expansion...I might as well cancel my pledge and wait for the "GOTY" edition, I don't want to own/pay for half a game. kickstarter is not a store. the point is to help get the original game made. they aren't taking anything away from you by giving others the expansion for free.