Elerond

I would say that Cameron's room is most likely much more interesting. Juncker probably don't even have plans to continue his political career after his tenure in Commission is over, which is probably before actual brexit happens. EDIT: It seems that Cameron's room has become much less interesting David Cameron resigns after UK votes to leave European Union

We see how it goes in two years (or longer if UK and EU so decide) after they officially declare that they will leave EU, until that current agreements are in force.

Nice to see they are getting a boost to their economy over this. It isn't necessary that good boost, because if people buy imported stuff then they actually may suffer even some lose. If they sell stuff that is produced in UK then they may get some boost.

And not so surprisingly SNP has started to speak about new vote for Scotland's independence and Sinn Fein leaving UK and joining Ireland.

They didn't reach constitutionality in that case, but decided that government can't restricting traveling without due process. But this is what is said about freedom of movement in USA. "Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), the Supreme Court recognized freedom of movement as a fundamental Constitutional right." But of course it is hard to say what that fundamental constitutional right actually entitles. So if they let people who are on no fly list buy air pistols then they only hinder people's rights bear arms and everything is okay?

But they have right to travel, "In Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958), the United States Secretary of State had refused to issue a passport to an American citizen based on the suspicion that the plaintiff was going abroad to promote communism (personal restrictions/national security). Although the Court did not reach the question of constitutionality in this case, the Court, in an opinion by Justice William O. Douglas, held that the federal government may not restrict the right to travel without due process: The right to travel is a part of the 'liberty' of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. If that "liberty" is to be regulated, it must be pursuant to the law-making functions of the Congress. . . . . Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, . . . may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values." And preventing person travel with plane hinders/restricts their right to travel quite lot especially when you take account that USA has territories where travelling without plane is difficult. And if that right can be restricted by those lists without breaking due process clause then hindering person right to bear arms should also not break that clause.

If no fly-lists aren't violation of due process then using them to put restrictions to person ability buy guns should not then be either. Meaning that if the right that those lists give officials to restrict person freedoms because they are deemed too dangerous for society to have those freedoms and way people are put on those lists are both constitutional then using those list to restrict more freedoms in name to make society safer should logically also be constitutional. Due process clause "No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgment of his equals or by the law of the land." If it is deemed that government don't break due process clause when restrict some rights from people based on those lists and how they put people on those lists then adding restrictions that they can impose with those lists don't seem anymore violation of persons constitutional rights than stripping them of those previous rights. In my personal opinion I think how people currently are put on no fly lists isn't just and terrorists watch lists seem to be even more problematic things. And I also am firm believer that people should be able to bear arms, even full military grade weapons although I think people shouldn't be allowed to buy guns before they are shown that they know how to use them and with heavier weapons being long time practitioners that have gone through military service. I personally own civil version of military assault rifle (meaning that its burst and full auto fire modes are disabled, but otherwise it is same weapon that is used in military). And I am currently supporting Finland's campaign to prevent EU regulation that would ban civilians owning such weapons.

The NRA would never let that get through. They don't even let the CDC do research on anything related to gun violence. NRA said they're for keeping guns from possible terrorists, what that means in practice I don't know. I do know that all the Democrat proposals involve complete violations of due process. So now Dems are against the fifth amendment, is there any provision in the bill of rights the Dems are still in favor of? Wouldn't that mean that no flight lists themselves are violation of due process? There's no constitutional right to fly on an airplane. But there is constitutional rights for due process and freedom of movement in my understanding

Suppose for a moment we had such a thing. Would you want a bureaucrat in Ottawa whom you have never met or is answerable to you in anyway having the authority of override or nullify the actions of you own legislature in Sacramento? I find the whole notion ironic really. Millions of Europeans have given their lives fighting wars over the centuries to keep their sovereign soil from being ruled by a foreign government that knows nothing about them and cares nothing for them. And in the end they just handed it all over pretty meekly. Now if the EU was, as conceived, a purely economic alliance it wouldn't be an issue but it's getting to be a lot more controlling and interfering as the years go from my point of view. That is still true. Whatever you like EU or not, it isn't foreign government that rules over us. It is complex institution that independent countries use to find common solutions to their issues. And there is always room to make adjustments, exceptions etc. to everything that is agreed via EU. Purely economic alliance is just illusion/day dream that really can't exist as other issues will always play in direct or indirect way when nations try to agree about something. In short issues that people have with EU would not go away even if EU was pure trade union and they also would not go away even if EU would not exists. Issues would maybe have bit different form because of how things would be decided but same issues would still exists. Question is more do EU make solving those issues easier or harder compared to alternatives.

Here some other other sources Business Insider Congress quietly renewed a ban on gun-violence research - http://www.businessinsider.com/congressional-ban-on-gun-violence-research-rewnewed-2015-7?r=US&IR=T&IR=T Self Congress Won’t Let The CDC Study Gun Violence, And That Needs To End Now http://www.self.com/trending/2016/06/congress-wont-let-the-cdc-study-gun-violence-and-that-needs-to-end-now/ PRI Quietly, Congress extends a ban on CDC research on gun violence http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-07-02/quietly-congress-extends-ban-cdc-research-gun-violence LA Times The NRA has blocked gun violence research for 20 years. Let's end its stranglehold on science. http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-gun-research-funding-20160614-snap-story.html ABC News Why the CDC Hasn't Launched a Comprehensive Gun Study in 15 Years http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-launched-comprehensive-gun-study-15-years/story?id=39873289 Washington Post Why the CDC still isn’t researching gun violence, despite the ban being lifted two years ago https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/ The Huffington Post Doctors Condemn The NRA-Fueled Ban On Gun Violence Research http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dickey-amendment-gun-violence-research-ban_us_56606201e4b072e9d1c4eaaa American Psychological Association Gun violence research: History of the federal funding freeze http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.aspx

In that case I would say that issue isn't that much about people on no fly list not being able to buy a gun, but process how people those end up those lists, which should be on top priority list of things to be fixed if it is currently against constitution.

The NRA would never let that get through. They don't even let the CDC do research on anything related to gun violence. NRA said they're for keeping guns from possible terrorists, what that means in practice I don't know. I do know that all the Democrat proposals involve complete violations of due process. So now Dems are against the fifth amendment, is there any provision in the bill of rights the Dems are still in favor of? Wouldn't that mean that no flight lists themselves are violation of due process?

I think you have right organization http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetstemwedel/2015/10/01/congress-still-bans-cdc-scientists-from-studying-gun-violence/#3136ff53b700

Democrats seem to have decided to play quite heavy political game for upcoming election. They invoke fear that no flight lists, fear mongering how nobody can know if there is terrorist among refugees, Muslims etc.. They proclaim idea that they are preventing these terrorists getting their hands on weapons at least not in any legal way. They use also distrust towards government, lobbyist, and big corporations to build up their argument They also heavily really on fact that GOP senators and members of congress will block any gun control bill that they propose. This all will create narrative that GOP senators and members of congress will not prevent terrorists buying legally guns and put american people in jeopardy, because they get millions of dollars from big gun manufactures.

eyyyy That seem bit failed study. Because data pointed towards Clinton winning over Sanders. Even I was able to predict Clinton most likely taking nomination based on poll and vote data in early March. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85040-us-elections-2016/page-10?do=findComment&comment=1786341 But of course there is always possible that poll data from all polling sources was fraudulent. And that there was country wide conspiracy in Democratic primaries, with thousands of participants.

I'm in the same camp but because I'm against globalism. It is communism for the capitalist elite and against the interests of nations, which cloaks itself in liberal policies that pretend or intent to do go but end up hurting the countries that have to obey those policies. So Global Capitalism is actually Communism? Bro you high or something? Communist ideology turns into a kind of socialism that promotes the spread of socialism throughout nations. It puts globalism and global interests ahead of national interests but instead of being the state that directs it, it's private entities. That is the thing that differentiate capitalism from socialism/communism. It is all about who is in the control of things.

Allah (Allāh‎ = Arabic word referring to God in Abrahamic religions, it is same word for when they refer Christian or Jewish gods [because they believe them to be same entity as the god they worship]) it is believed to be just contraction of al ilāh (the God). Although lots of Muslims have tendency to use Allah instead of their native language version for God if their native language isn't Arabic. Also Arab Christians use Allah when they speak about their god. But anyway sounds quite stupid and strange to translate/change words in transcripts.

Yes, well, countries like the Netherlands, Sweden, Finland and Denmark may feel quite a bit more uncomfortable in an E.U. without GB to balance out Germany and France, so I wouldn't be too sure things will be business as usual. Especially since GB's contributions to the budget will fall away, and that money will have to come from somewhere. And it sure won't be coming from those nice Eastern European chaps... UK has been more often against Finland in issues than on same side in EU politics. Although now that Finns Party (our anti EU - anti immigration - right wing nationalist party ) is in government and they are allies with Conservatives in EU parliament I would guess that our countries start to be more often on same page.

Dont get annoyed by this, people like this I consider fundamentalist Christians and dont represent the views of the majority of Americans or Christians ...very few people nowadays in the US would be this open about there bigotry I am not sure about your assessment of very few people, there has been quite lot people in twitter and facebook that have openly celebrated this attack. Although all don't necessary directly declare death for gays but aren't really that sympathetic towards people being killed just because who they love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJcI7zcBfc

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/06/13/sacramento-baptist-preacher-praises-orlando-gay-nightclub-attack/ A Sacramento Baptist preacher’s sermon praising an attack on an Orlando nightclub that killed 50 people has the local LGBT community outraged. “Are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?” he said in the sermon. “Um no, I think that’s great! I think that helps society. I think Orlando, Florida is a little safer tonight.” “If we lived in a righteous government, they should round them all up and put them up against a firing wall, and blow their brains out,” Jimenez said in the sermon.

There are eye witness reports that he shouted 'Britain First' which is anti EU party in UK. Also UK don't have total ban of guns. Although reports say that he used home made gun.

http://ktla.com/2016/06/15/orlando-nightclub-gunman-called-friend-tv-station-during-attack-officials-say/ "Salman, Mateen's second wife, has been cooperating with various law enforcement agencies. Salman told investigators that Mateen told her he had interest in carrying out a jihadist attack -- but she denied knowing of any specific plans, according to two law enforcement officials. She initially denied that when Mateen left the house Saturday she had any inkling he was going to do anything violent. But in subsequent statements, Salman conceded she had a suspicion he might be planning to do an attack, perhaps on Pulse, the officials said. According to one official, she knew "for a while" Mateen had thoughts of wanting to do something violent. He had been talking about it for months, if not years." "Federal investigators are focused on Mateen's and Salman's activities in the days and weeks leading up to rampage, which left 49 people dead and 53 wounded. Mateen appeared to be conducting surveillance at Pulse and Disney properties days. Investigators believe he made surveillance trips to the club and the Disney Springs shopping complex during Gay Days 2016, a citywide celebration, a law enforcement official said. Walt Disney World and other Orlando locations held Gay Days 2016, events from May 31 to June 6. Disney security officials told the FBI they believe he also visited Disney World on April 26 to conduct surveillance, the law enforcement official said." "Salman has told investigators she was with her husband on at least one trip to buy ammunition, according to multiple law enforcement officials. When and where that occurred is unclear. Salman claims she didn't know he was buying ammunition to kill people when she accompanied him, but such purchases were not unusual for him. CNN has reported that Mateen picked up a Sig Sauer rifle on June 9, four days after he purchased it from the St. Lucie Shooting Center. Records indicate that Mateen purchased ammunition from that store on June 9, according to a law enforcement official. The owner of the shop, Ed Henson, told CNN's Christopher Lett that Mateen visited the store on multiple occasions but he never saw Salman. More than a month after the Disney World trip in April, Mateen and his wife visited Pulse and Disney Springs -- apparently to scout out the locations, a law enforcement official said." "Authorities piecing together the timeline of the killing found that Mateen stopped to make several phone calls as his victims lay bleeding to death at the Pulse. He called a friend to tell him goodbye, two law enforcement officials said. He also called 911 to pledge his allegiance to ISIS. And he called CNN affiliate News 13 in Orlando to proclaim he was carrying out the massacre on behalf of the terror group. Producer Matthew Gentili answered the newsroom phone early Sunday. "I'm the shooter. It's me. I am the shooter," Mateen said, according to Gentili. "I did it for ISIS. I did it for the Islamic State." Authorities are facing the challenge of trying to glean information from the gunman's cell phone. It was damaged after it was submerged in water and blood, law enforcement officials said." "Mateen made derogatory comments about gays and expressed outrage over the sight of two men kissing, according to reports. But in the months leading up to the carnage, Mateen visited gay chat rooms, messaged people on gay dating apps and even frequented the same gay nightclub he would eventually terrorize, sources said. Investigators don't know whether the gunman frequented Pulse and chat rooms for personal reasons or for surveillance. Hopper said he had no knowledge of Mateen patronizing any gay nightclubs other than Pulse. FBI agents are interviewing people who claim they met the gunman on gay dating apps, a law enforcement official said. Those claims "certainly change the perspective," the source said. No men have publicly come forward claiming to have had sexual contact with him." "Was the mass shooting fueled by homophobia? Was the gunman struggling with his own sexuality? Or was he really inspired by ISIS, as his final phone calls suggest? An analysis of Mateen's electronic devices showed searches for jihadist propaganda, including videos of ISIS beheadings, an official said. A law enforcement official said the gunman increased his consumption of a variety of jihadist propaganda, such as beheading videos two weeks before the attack. Before that the source says his consumption was infrequent and he certainly wasn't immersing himself in it. The official described Mateen as an "angry and violent man who in the last few weeks started watching ISIS videos." A source said he was looking for any excuse to do something violent and he was a "boiling kettle." But Mateen's father, Seddique Mateen, said his son didn't have ties to the terror group -- which he calls "the enemy of humanity." He said he didn't believe his son was gay. "I don't know if he was, if that was his way of his life, but I don't believe so," Seddique Mateen said. He said his son was married with a child."

I wonder how that's going to go down with Isis. Will be kicked out of paradise now for being a conflicted gay man. It isn't uncommon that homophobic people go in gay clubs and look people from dating apps and sites that are meant for gays. And it isn't also uncommon that this behavior eventually leads escalation where said people start assault and even kill gays. And it is also common that in these cases people believe that these criminals just could not handle fact that they are gay, but usually there isn't no other evidence than their fascination towards thing that they clearly hate that there is anything gay in them. Usually people that show behavior where they become more and more fascinated with target of their hate and eventually escalating to violence towards target is called stalking but in cases like this people often jump in conclusion that person just could not handle being gay. Which may be because they think that it is insulting towards said homophobic criminals or because it works as easy explanation for that person's violent behavior, but this both things are quite problematic for people that were targeted by these criminals hatred. That's possible I guess. But he was on several gay social media. I took that to mean he had a profile. If you have a profile, I mean ods are you are gay. But having wife and child and no known male partners lowers odds to be gay somewhat especially for millennial who has grown in USA. And even being in denial becomes quite questionable if he really has have been visiting Pulse and other gay nightclubs for years and seeking male company (at least I haven't heard about one) from dating apps and sites, because that is quite lot time to be in denial about yourself but still constantly seeking environment with people that you deny being part of. This aren't behaviors that you commonly see in people that are in denial.

I wonder how that's going to go down with Isis. Will be kicked out of paradise now for being a conflicted gay man. It isn't uncommon that homophobic people go in gay clubs and look people from dating apps and sites that are meant for gays. And it isn't also uncommon that this behavior eventually leads escalation where said people start assault and even kill gays. And it is also common that in these cases people believe that these criminals just could not handle fact that they are gay, but usually there isn't no other evidence than their fascination towards thing that they clearly hate that there is anything gay in them. Usually people that show behavior where they become more and more fascinated with target of their hate and eventually escalating to violence towards target is called stalking but in cases like this people often jump in conclusion that person just could not handle being gay. Which may be because they think that it is insulting towards said homophobic criminals or because it works as easy explanation for that person's violent behavior, but this both things are quite problematic for people that were targeted by these criminals hatred.

Extremists target everybody that their ideology and society schools them to hate and everything that they think will forward their agenda or give them visibility/merit. Also it seem that both Trump and Clinton have already started to use this horrific act of hate to advertise their policies and candidacies. I would say that it is safe bet to say that this particular mass murderer's hate towards homosexuals was fueled by his religion and most likely upbringing. In news he is identified as second generation immigrant from Afghan background, so he is most likely grown his hateful self in USA and found ISIS's hateful world view corresponding with that hate, which has lead to his world view become more and more radicalized and given him motivation to plan and carry out his attack against those that he hates. To me it is senseless act of violence that ended lots of lives that should not have ended. I just hope that it leads changes that make society better for everybody.