Longknife

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this. So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage? +50% dmg per hit is on par with a crit, so yes, it is ridiculous amounts of damage when you have a class "critting" every half a second.

It's actually hard to pinpoint if they're OP or not. I think anyone going from any other class to a Monk would grow very nervous watching the Monk's endurance drop, but it's also practically a fact that a Monk will outpace any incoming damage with his own damage. That's what makes Monk so awesome, but it's also kinda hard to bring out the nerf stick vs. Monk because people will debate how consistent it is that Monk outpaces incoming damage. Some calmly use Monk and know that even if he has 10% endurance, he'll drop all enemies before they drop him, others will insist Monk is screwed.

And again, Monk can spam the ever living hell out of his. You can't use it with an arquebus. But yes, yes, I get it. You don't care about the Paladin's support abilities at all. You won't rest until the Paladin is equal to other strikers, or equal to a tank, thereby obsoleting other strikers and tanks by virtue of also having better support. No... What I'm saying is that while it's great Paladin can use a very specific setup of Flames + Arquebus to get a free kill or two, that alone is not enough to carry Paladin's weight as a viable option. This would be quite helpful for the boss like encounters, but very very poor in larger encounters with multiple enemies, where 176 damage is absolute overkill and the Monk or Rogue or Cipher's ability to consistently hit for 40-50 damage is going to help the team out more. The Paladin would overkill a mob, then spend the rest of the fight reloading while the other three drop everything and everyone they touch without pause. It's very nice that Paladin can do that, don't get me wrong, but it's still somewhat specialized in both the way it needs to happen (Arquebus is specifically named, which I believe it's accuracy is not so great. I can name at least one boss aside from the adra dragon and endgame boss I'd expect misses on) and in when it really shines. What I'm saying is that alone will not carry Paladin's weight in a squad. That comparison feels similar to Wizard. Why? Wizard is an often criticized class, and yet it or Druid is considered a fundamental part of any team. Why? Because if you get into a huge battle with tons of little moblets running around, Wizard or Druid practically feels like a requirement to come out of there alive. These two will do clean up duty like no one else, and you'll feel your team overwhelmed without them. Outside of such fights though? You expect Cipher to outperform the Wizard for the smaller-scale fights, with Wizard being an ace in the hole limited to two per encounter spells for normal fights. Paladin now has this same effect but with bosses, the problem being that Paladin would be a luxury for bosses rather than a neccesity. It needs more in order to step past that, namely it needs a boost to either it's abilities as a tank or it's abilities as a support.

And again, Monk can spam the ever living hell out of his.

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

Nothing you named actually factors into Higher crit chance, or does so minimally. Even so, you're failing to realize that you're arguing the barbarian has higher crit chance. HOW? This is practically impossible, because the Monk is "critting" with every Torment's Reach, which he is spamming out at every .5 second interval. It's a move that adds as much damage as a critical but isn't actually a critical, meaning it too can critical and hit even harder. The Monk also naturally has better accuracy and therefore better crit rate. Barbarian can easily outdamage Monk when surrounded and able to exploit his AOE melee, but if we're talking single target, I dare say Monk is the champion amongst all the classes for killing singular targets the fastest.

How? Torment's Reach = Guarenteed Crit. A Monk with wounds is "critting" every .5 seconds. A Barb definitely does better group damage, but how would a barb bring down a single target faster without One Stands Alone?

Sharpshooter - Gain 15 accuracy with ranged weaponry, however, you lose 25 accuracy with melee weaponry. Determination - Your attack speed increases by x1.3 when you're below 40% Endurance Opportunist - Your accuracy drops by 20, however, your critical percent is upped by 35. Effects melee attacks only.

No. Wanna know why? A Monk's Torment's Reach is identical to Paladin's Flames of Devotion, except with Crush damage instead of flame damage. The difference is the Monk can spam Torment's Reach back to back and can easily get 6+ wounds to spam it with. A Paladin is capped at two and doesn't attack nearly as relentlessly as Monk. It's also important to note that 50% additional damage = a crit. So classes like Rogue and Ranger are easily outpacing Paladin just by critting reliably as they do. Paladin cannot hold a candle to any of these three classes. A guarenteed crit is nice, but not when half your team can do it far better than you. Isn't that good...? Prone means the target is easier to hit and takes more damage, and a proned target can easily buy time to save the fight. Sometimes the target you're proning spams stun or charm and having that guy on his butt is the window you need. Your second argument is also odd, as you're basically saying "what Moon Godlike and Priests can do is really good and useful. Therefore, because the Fighter does the exact same thing to a smaller, more consistent degree, it's worthless." Lolwat no. Healed endurance is healed endurance, and it's VERY useful. The Fighter can essentially negate an entire opponent this way, something the Paladin cannot. The Fortitude argument has little to do with Paladin vs. anyone else and more to do with the build. Some paladins will get stunned quite easily, some will not, just like with any class. You also mention engagement won't help with certain enemies. Guess what will? Fighter's aggro pull move. Once you use it, the enemy it's used on immediately targets the Fighter, no matter how far the Fighter may be. Then you've missed the point entirely. Losing a Fighter or a Monk is a big deal because both can assist the team by drawing aggro, killing quickly (monk) or knocking the opponent on it's butt. This benefits the entire team. Paladin's raw defenses benefit absolutely nobody except himself. The Paladin will not accomplish anything with raw defense and no skills to show for it aside from being the last one to die....if that, because as stated, the Fighter easily outpaces Paladin with regen abilities.

Nonsense. There's plenty of ways to encourage build diversity by simply offering more diverse benefits. The problem currently is that most of the talents are arbitrary stat bonuses. The class talents are better because many of them add or modify existing abilities, the all-class talents are crud because they just give +10 Will or something like that, which simply won't mean jack against the toughest opponents and will hardly be noticeable in normal fights. Take for example the Monk's talent that reduces all hostile effects by half. This? This is a good talent. This is flexible and can universally help your monk across the board. But no such all-class talents exist. There needs to be more like that. Yes, there need to be more options like the ones that you consider the best. But then you won't be able to take them all. So for the ones you aren't taking to compete, they'll need to be more like the ones that you are taking. Ad infinitum. Your argument is to bother try because there will always be room for more options...?

Because: 1) Fighters can disable an enemy that's a big threat with a knock down, thereby decreasing the immediate pressure on them and decreasing incoming damage. 2) Fighters regenerate endurance over time. Yes, this DOES add up and become a factor. Paladin can lay on hands, but this can get interrupted or simply isn't an option during a stun or prone, meaning in some situations it just won't happen. 3) At higher levels, Fighters gain additional ways to regain health, easily outpacing Lay On Hands. 4) A Fighter is going to protect the team with higher engagement and the ability to pull enemies off of teammates. A Paladin's tankiness doesn't count for squat if they're helpless to protect the team. 5) Fighter honestly has better offensive capabilities aswell. While this is hardly a strong suit of Fighter or Paladin, I HAVE had fights where Fighter was last man standing and finished the job slowly but surely. I cannot say the same for Paladin, who typically succumbs to the enemy due to a lack of damage and lack of endurance regen.

Nonsense. It's not the game's fault Monk makes you feel like the Incredible Hulk, Batman and Superman combined. They just so swole it's impossible to design them as a sub-par class. :D

What's sad is I think a lot of this could easily be remedied by simply doing some basic changes. For example: 1) Why are only the good parts of choices being highlighted? It's clear there's room for morally grey areas. Let's hear about all the abandoned babies and Wichts that would suffer if Hylea's plan is followed, or about how a Hollowborn vessel that's 2 years old would have all sorts of development problems under her plan. Let's hear about how Galawain's plan results in some people getting stronger while others become downright insane, incapable of coping with the multiple souls they now house and more prone to awakenings. 2) Factions could be made loads more interesting if they just got more content. Honestly Obsidian, if you're willing, just patch in 3-4 more quests per faction group and they'll feel more substantial. And double down on the unique perks they offer. Dunno if Obsidian would consider this a waste of time or not, but I for one would consider this an immense improvement. 3) The hardest to remedy is dialog reputations. There's just no way they can fix this overnight, nor do I expect them to make an effort.

How many of my brethren have also realized the true key to achieving victory and realizing your inner strength is to run at your enemy with your shirt off?

Nonsense. There's plenty of ways to encourage build diversity by simply offering more diverse benefits. The problem currently is that most of the talents are arbitrary stat bonuses. The class talents are better because many of them add or modify existing abilities, the all-class talents are crud because they just give +10 Will or something like that, which simply won't mean jack against the toughest opponents and will hardly be noticeable in normal fights. Take for example the Monk's talent that reduces all hostile effects by half. This? This is a good talent. This is flexible and can universally help your monk across the board. But no such all-class talents exist. There needs to be more like that.

The issue isn't with Jack of all trades as a style, the issue is with how much they contribute. Currently, almost all other classes are specialists that provide 80-100% potential in a given category such as offense, defense, crowd control or support. Paladin meanwhile has 40%'s in every category. Paladin will NOT compete with 40%'s, those need to be cranked up to 60%'s for Paladin to be viable.

He's a suggestion of what I think could help: You can get enchantments that provide Retaliation, Second Chance and whatever the self-healing one is....why not offer these as talents? Why not give a Talent that provides Second Chance? I don't think it'd be too OP since all this effectively acts as is another enchantment slot, but would a talent that provides a character with Second Chance be tempting? Dear lord yes. As it stands now, no one in their right mind is having trouble debating between grabbing Psychic Backlash or Bear's Fortitude....

It feels as though 90% of talents and abilities are garbage, to the point where any attempt to innovate and try something new is just a lost cause. It almost feels like the class talents were the only ones with any real thought or effort put into them, and aside from those there's just a handful of good all-class talents to put to use, with many being pretty weak. Likewise the whole game feels very....controlled. There's a very limited range of additional accuracy you can gain permanently, as is the case with a lot of stats. What I mean is it doesn't really feel as though it'd be possible to build a character that's insanely good at offense but obviously lacking in defense, like even if you tried your hardest to achieve this, the stats are controlled enough and the scope of what stats you can gain is small enough that no character is gonna stand out as truly unique, and all Ciphers or Wizards are gonna feel more or less the same. I understand that of course the stats need to be controlled to a degree lest there be stupid broken overpowered builds or the like, but I guess I'm still disappointed in the range and scope of what you can accomplish. Customizing squads can feel unique, but customizing individual characters seems like it'll get old fast... Thoughts?

It's a flat bonus RIP Paladins. Rest in Peace. This means that a Fighter vs. a Paladin, as far as defense goes, looks like this: Fighter: 15 Deflection, 10 of everything else and 35 deflection with 30 of everything else when Vigorous Defender is active Paladin: 15 Deflection, 26 of everything else once both positive dispositions are maxed at 4 and Deep Faith is taken. (at the start of the game the paladin should have around 15 of the other defenses if just deep faith is taken) It's a difference, but it just doesn't feel as though it's near enough to matter. Most incoming damage will be deflection-based, fortitude based attacks give you plenty of time to react to them, and will based attacks like stun, charm and petrify typically get spammed after the casters in the back. In practice, deflection is the number one concern for the frontline, and if a battle truly does have other problems such as spell spam or the like, Vigorous Defender, multiple heal methods and knockdown can keep the Fighter alive, whereas the Paladin....can't really do anything except hope it's raw stats are enough.

BTW, has anyone been able to confirm whether Deep Faith is a flat bonus or an increase to each disposition increase? If it's a flat bonus, then Paladins suck even more than expected. You also fail to mention that the guy who posted it explicitly stated he chose Paladin to try and make the run as challenging as possible. All it really showcases is that any class can do it, not that Paladin is secretly OP.

This. It's painfully clear that the developers were playing favorites with the classes. Cipher got all the love cause they invented it. Wizard and Paladin clearly received quite a bit of neglect, comparatively. How's that Kool Aid? How the HELL does drinking the Kool Aid apply here...?

Lucky Milhouse. He's not a meme.

And you can gather a crowd to help. Peasant's gimmick is that if left alone too long, he can form an angry mob of villagers to swarm the enemy.

Gandalf the Xaurip

This. It's painfully clear that the developers were playing favorites with the classes. Cipher got all the love cause they invented it. Wizard and Paladin clearly received quite a bit of neglect, comparatively.