Sensuki

Oh now you're speaking as the voice of the community. Feeling alone? Looking for a little support? Perhaps I hurt your feelings. Only further proves my point. Already proved that the statements weren't taken out of context - but feel free to keep telling yourself that they were.

Hypothetically or from experience?

Just be glad you don't have to rely on the Russians for support

That is a severe misconception. Have you ever played a hard turn based game? go play Knights of the Chalice or Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 bro, come back and tell me how well you did. For the record I really like real-time with pause, but I find it hilarious how many RtWP fans hate turn-based. Whereas most of the turn-based fans enjoy both.

I have a question to those who hate turn based. What difficulty do you usually play RPGs on ?

Indeed. That info is from a post Josh made on Something Awful ~two days ago. It is cited on the wiki. It would be safe to assume they have the best Fortitude of any class.

Since there's an influx of new posters on the forum after the Backer website going live and this is (ironically) the forum that receives the least information, I have updated my class primer that I posted a few months ago. I was going to do a longer one with the general mechanics as there's some stuff in here that doesn't make sense without the context - such as Melee Engagement. This information is up to date as of 14/12/13. There have been some changes to the Fighter, Chanter and Barbarian classes and some new information about Rangers, Rogues and Druids. Information on class abilities can be found on the wiki. This is a summary of the class roles, mechanics and default playstyle. All classes will be able to be built differently to described here through attribute, skill and talent selection. Fighter The Fighter is Eternity's primary Tank class. They are a melee focused character that will make up the front lines of your party's combat setup. They gain a bonus to Melee accuracy and they have a modal ability called Defensive Mode that sacrifices this bonus for melee defense, it also allows them to engage up to three opponents in melee combat and this is their primary method of protecting your other party members from melee characters. Fighters have a high deflection score and many defensive abilities that make them very hard to take down. They are the only class that gains passive stamina regeneration in combat which can be augmented by an active ability called Surge that increases their stamina regeneration rate for a short amount of time. Fighters are not very good ranged characters, because most of their abilities are melee-oriented. You could sacrifice your alternate weapon slot and open up fights with a ranged weapon such as a pistol or a blunderbuss and then switch to a melee weapon and wade into combat. Rogue Unlike their pre-4E D&D counterparts, Rogues are not a skill-monkey character. They are the primary damage dealing class in Pillars of Eternity. Rogues have the highest single-hit damage potential of all of the classes and they have a lot of ways to qualify for Sneak Attacks which are a passively applied large percentage-based damage bonus. There are no creature type restrictions on Sneak Attack and it's automatically triggered by a lot of different conditions on the target. Additionally, rogues gain more and more ways to cause those conditions. Rogues can be played as a melee character or a short-ranged ranged character (as most of their abilities require them to be close to the target). They are one of the most effective classes with firearms (second to the Ranger). Rogues are fairly paper, but have a high reflex defense and a couple of abilities that help them escape melee engagement. Priest Priests are primarily a ranged caster class. They are closer range casters than Wizards. Unlike wizards, priests have access to their full spell list though it is less extensive than the wizard's. Priests have the only non-self Stamina regen spell(s) so far that we know and they are the go-to class for support style spells though they also have a few crowd-control and single-target strike spells. The party benefits from priests being in close proximity to allies to give them their Sacred Circle passive accuracy bonus, but if there are no allies in range they get it themselves. Priests have a high Psyche(Will) defense that makes them harder to hit with Mental attacks such as charm and confusion. Wizard Wizards are primarily a ranged caster class. They are the go-to class for dealing ranged AoE damage. Wizards cast spells through the use of a Grimoire, which is a heavy tome that they carry in their off-hand in combat. Wizards can only cast spells from their currently equipped Grimoire. Grimoires currently hold four spells per spell-level. Wizards can swap Grimoires in combat, but have to wait until they align themselves to the new one before they can cast spells from it (essentially a short-medium cooldown). Wizards gain an accuracy bonus from using implements (rods and wands) which are long-range, low-damage weapons. Wizards wand/rod attacks do damage in a small AoE around the target. Wizards gain access to a small list of spells upon level up and find the rest in the world. Like the Priest they also have a high Psyche(Will) defense. Monk Monks are Eternity's other Tank class. The mechanic that makes Monks a tank and sets them apart from other characters is they have a mana-like resource called "Wounds" that can only be filled by taking damage in combat. A portion of that damage fills up the Wounds resource that powers their class abilities which are primarily status-effect based. Monks have to spend Wounds to prevent the damage that they initially resisted, otherwise it is applied as a ticking DoT effect. While under DoT effects Monks gain a passive fire-damage bonus to their attacks. Monks benefit from being unarmed and unarmored. They deal special unarmed damage and need to take damage to power their abilities. Being unarmored means they take damage faster and attack faster. However like all characters, monks can wear armor and all of their status effects are applied to all weapons, so they can be built to wear armor and wield any melee weapon. The Monk, like the fighter is not really a ranged class, since they need to take damage to fuel their abilities and some of their attacks do not work with ranged weapons. There is a class update on monks . Cipher Ciphers are similar to the Soulblade class in D&D. They have a resource that is the inverse of the Monk's, and is generated by dealing damage using the Soul Whip modal ability which deals reduced damage but lowers the Psyche(Will) defense of the target. Ciphers can use both melee and ranged weapons to generate power. They spend their power on Powers (essentially spells) that include range of status effects, telekinesis, mind-influencing effects and temporary ability draining powers. Ciphers are the third highest damage dealing class by nature (behind the Rogue and Ranger) and have a high natural Psyche(Will) defense. There is a class update on ciphers. Paladin Paladins are a support character that are used most efficiently when positioned near allies as their primary mechanic revolves around the use of passive short-range modal auras that give different benefits (such as bonus to accuracy, or attack speed) to party members in close proximity. Paladins have naturally high defenses, powerful single-target buffs and an ability similar to Smite. Paladins can also revive a downed party member in combat and give them a temporary stamina boost through the use of Reviving Exhortation. Theoretically, Paladins are a useful melee or ranged character as long as they are positioned near the bulk of your party members. There is a class update on paladins. Ranger (There is not much information available on this class at present) Unsurprisingly, Rangers are the most effective ranged weapon users in the game. They are a high damage dealing class that can mark a favored enemy once per encounter to receive a damage bonus (and maybe an accuracy bonus?) vs. that opponent for the duration of the encounter. Rangers have an animal companion that shares the Health and Stamina pool of the Ranger. Animal Companions are very durable and have a variety of uses such as engaging opponents that try to slip to the back to attack the Ranger. The bond between the Ranger and the Animal Companion is terminal and they will both be knocked unconscious if they lose all their stamina and suffer the same fate of being maimed or dying if they lose all their health. Druid (There is not much information available on this class at present) Druids are primarily a ranged caster class. Their spellcasting takes the same form as the Priest and they are the best class for AoE crowd-control. The main class feature of the Druid is the ability to shapechange into anthropomorphic animal forms, more like lycanthropes in appearance. This is a limited use ability that gives them special powers and gnarly claw attacks based on the creature type. They can cast spells while in this form, but not use weapons. Druids are likely best played using a ranged weapon such as a Longbow, staying at the back flinging spells. Their Beast form and their Firebrand spell (flaming sword that attacks Reflex) gives them some limited-use melee power. Though they will probably have Talents to augment their shapeshifting and melee capability. Barbarian (There is not much information on this class at present) Barbarians are melee-based AoE damage dealers. They have a passive ability that gives small AoE damage to their melee attacks. Barbarians take less Health damage than other classes and are more durable across the adventuring day. They have a Wild Sprint ability that allows them to charge across the battlefield ignoring impediments and an attack that targets Fortitude instead of Deflection. Recent information on them is conflicting. Past statements say they are good at dealing with creeps/scrubs but have bad Deflection and will suffer vs stronger enemies. The most recent statement says they have good personal defense. It is possible that the Barbarian concept is developing over time as previously they sounded like a weak class. Look forward to a class update on them in the future. Chanter (There is not much information available on this class at present) Chanters are supposed to be pretty versatile, they can be melee or ranged, have good accuracy, average defenses and they chant while fighting to give buffs to the party or debuffs to enemies. These chants are made up of 'phrases'. Chanters learn phrases on level up and can learn more in the game world. Chants have a large aura range compared to the Paladin. After a Chant reaches a certain amount of 'ticks', Chanters can unleash an 'invocation' which is a powerful spell. Invocations cannot be used at the start of a fight. Disclaimer: Some of this information is assumed, some of it is based on old information. If there are any discrepancies I'm sure the developers will chime in to correct me.

Says the guy who told me to get a life because you found my persistence annoying. You also used the "no offense but actually I do mean offense" tactic. Whatever I am, you're just as bad - or worse.

One of the best things about using a U shaped UI on a 16:9 screen is that it can give you the same 16:9 perspective of the game. The screenshots where the BG2 Widescreen mod UI was pasted over it actually looked really good, despite taking up more physical space than the bottom par in pixels. Alas once again I fear I have to state that I do not actually think this will ever be used to avoid some misquote.

Your mockup does not include feedback from users. Your UI includes the total amount of action bar buttons on Obsidian's U1v1 mockup. I will not pretend that mine does either. My mockup includes the larger BG1 style portraits, removes most of the dead space on the UI and allows room for 24 interactive buttons and all of the menu options required. My UI is more functional than yours will ever be. The only negative of mine is that IF you want to see negligible amounts of the screen below the UI height is that you can't. Mine however, could be improved as it does not handle Animal companions and it does not have room for extra class resources such as the Monk's Wounds or the Cipher's Power bars. I could still remove the decorative pillars and squash things in together a bit more though. I could also trim the decorative bar from the top, or thin it to a couple of pixels. You photoshopped yours quite well and the decorative part looks nice, but it doesn't have as much functionality as mine does. As far as I am concerned, you are ramming yours down ours as well and you also act with an air of superiority so that's the pot calling the kettle black tbh. The only person calling you out is me, and I have made a mockery of your favor of Dragon Age Origins and XCOM Enemy Unknown as tactical RPGs and your proposition of buttons like select all and formations at the top of the screen. Also your use of mainstream game reviews as evidence to support your claim that XCOM is a good example of 'tactical RPG UI design' when it is a console game with significantly less inputs. As far as I am concerned all of those things are truths, as well. DA:O and XCOM are only tactical games if you haven't played any past tactical games of note from the 90s or early 00s. Goddamn right. I don't like you or the userbase that you are part of and I don't like what you stand for. But the benefit of dishing out the brutal truth is unlike most people, you always know where I stand.

Once again. You fail to use the search function. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63854-ui-style-preference/ This poll has a 60% favor to the larger skeuomorphic UI design. The posts in the Update 54 thread also suggest a large amount of posters that like this UI. The developers in a recent interview also stated that the minimalists are an 'insignificant' crowd. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2071423/deep-dive-with-pillars-of-eternity-project-lead-josh-sawyer-the-full-interview.html?page=7 I find it amusing that people continue to use these arguments without evidence. Also not taking into account mouse settings at all. Did you see the example of the BG2 UI that I gave using mspaint? The three mouse movements required to select a portrait, select an ability at the bottom and select a unit on the map are actually very natural movements. Also you are not taking into account distance on the mousepad. Very small movements can actually be harder to make than medium ones as well.

That's just an excuse IMO, and one not backed by very good evidence.

I'm not they'll be able to drop people from the Eternity team actually, during post-pro. Kaz and Polina are needed for portraits & paintovers, UI & menus - so both the concept artists have to stay at least for some of the time. Josh will need to stay on for balancing stuff and overall vision, he's the main guy behind this. All of the programmers have their own little jobs - Tim handles the class implementations and the stronghold, Adam handles the 'engine stuff', Steve the gameplay and AI. They'll all need to be there handling bug fixing. Mark Bremerkamp will be animating ... forever. Dimitri and James will also be on full time right until the end, polishing all the models. Hector and Sean (& co) will need to be on right until the end to fix up all the areas. Bobby and Jorge will be adding/tweaking content (and the design interns prob) And the writers will be writing companions, adding reactivity and polishing dialogues right up until the end as well. So yeah I don't really know who they could drop really, besides a few interns. They've got A LOT of work to do. We payed for an extensive post-production as well. What he possibly means is that the pre-production team will be a different team entirely, and they will transition some of the Eternity team over to the new Kickstarter, and keep some (Josh, others) for PE to train more staff up on Unity and the new way of doing things.

So the Eternity team would roll over to the new non-Eternity Kickstarter? wat ? What about the Expansion ... and the sequel Can't say I'm interested in the 'more for the masses' ideas. I'd love to see Josh get a chance to do his historical RPG, even if it was just a small one. I'd also like to see a Wuxia-style RPG (Ancient China style). An Obsidian space opera / sci-fi would also be interesting depending on what the concept was. Can't say I was too big of a fan of that Backspace one or whatever. Definitely keep the 2D background style though pls :azncuteface:

Possibly could be modded in though, who knows. I don't think their default UI will be bad.

The Action bar is all of the ability icons. In Icewind Dale 2 those were mappable buttons, rather than static in the other games. Their argument for placing the ability icons above the portraits was to minimize the mouse distance between them. Go back and read the Art Update thread for exact quotes. If they were next to the portraits Josh said that they should be on the left because "the right to left mouse movement is more comfortable". Curryinahurry and I have already talked about that specific argument a few pages ago. I have already stated ITT that it's not something I agree with specifically, but minimizing the distance between portraits and icons isn't bad design. Edit:

Waste of money. Better spent on content & stuff.

Project Director has the final say though. I think it's a bit too "optimistic" to think that they are going to change their UI design. The UI probably isn't done because it's being implemented. They have a Programming Intern working on it. There's also probably "features" that aren't in yet. Personally I don't like the proposed L-shaped design, because they stated that the portraits must be next to the action bar. So if they did an L shaped design - the action icons would be next to the portraits, rather than the Baldur's Gate style.

Originally I was against the simplification of things like damage on the same stat, but it works within the system that Josh has created - as it follows his overall design. I will be interested to see how it holds up in terms of legacy systems and how "fun" it is in comparison.

You say that as if I am the one designing the UI for PE. Lol. Not me you need to convince bro. Josh sounded like the design was pretty much final at this stage. Go read his posts from the Art Update 54 - you will not see a U shaped UI under his watch, the one thing he considered was an L shaped UI, but they never ended up going there. When I made this thread we were not sure what they were doing with the UI, I had a suspicion that they were doing something like the mockup I posted in the OP, or the "Karkarov style" one - going by the last quote. Josh has since posted in this thread saying that the UI is a bottom bar style. What I meant by the above statements were you seem to be disregarding anything the developers say - which leads onto the next quote. They did and even when they posted the update about Crafting, Josh posted that the Crafting skill was the one he was the least sure about. The response to the skill was overwhelmingly against durability, so they didn't really lose anything by removing it. There's no majority voice on the UI though, so the developers are going to stick to their guns - feel free to think that they're going to change it, but I don't think they will. I stated my preference order - BG2 UI, which was never going to happen. Followed by a full skeuomorphic bottom bar. That's what I hope we get. If we end up getting a centered bar, and the devs ask "tell us what you think" then I will, but from other discussions I know that once Josh has made a decision, most of the time he sticks to it no matter what.

The reason you can't create your whole party at the beginning is because the early game is balanced around staggered introduction of characters. You will be able to gain Adventurer's party characters at roughly the same rate as companions. In a recent interview Josh Sawyer said that the places where you can hire them are accessible around the same time as gaining a companion (whether that be before or after).

The link was in the OP.

Right well since you have a problem at taking my word for stuff I'll link you. http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9059 Here are the two references to it in the OP: and right down the bottom of the OP: Constitution probably does govern vitality.

No, but would you bet against it ? What else would govern damage and healing out of Dex, Con, Int or Per ?

I had the thread open, it really wasn't that much effort. And they were not taken out of context at all. You belong to the minimalist crowd. You like pop-out menu elements. You like Dragon Age Origins and XCOM Enemy Unknown and consider them examples of a tactical RPG. You don't care about a full range of menu buttons for functionality, you use hotkeys and just want to get rid of most of the UI and you seem to take stock in mainstream video game reviewers. Those are all things that you said and all of that evidence falsifies your statement that you're UI is not designed for any crowd. You've got me though, I am a fanatic. I want this game to be the best it can be. I conducted an interview during the KS, participated in the AMA & the RPGCodex Interview, I participate in discussions on the game across multiple forums, I have a loud voice and I don't back down from a discussion. I don't own a console, I've never played Skyrim. I don't play MMOs. I don't want influences from those things interfering with my nostalgic IE experience. If you don't like that, there's an ignore button. That's right but a centered UI is better than gaps in the middle. I do hope it takes up the full width, but if it does they'd have some issues with scaling and aspect ratio to consider.