Amused

Now, that's sexism for you.

Lovely. Just plain lovely. Thank you for posting those. The animations of the character and the backgrounds it's on, the shadow and light work, the colors, the texture of the rocks and ground and ground cover everything is gorgeous. The plants and grass are even lovely, as well as the shadow play over them. The character, and its animations, blend astoundingly well with the world. I would support his kickstarter.

Lot's of text in the game. A series of novellas to read in a library or other places in the game I'm all for. I don't want to buy books outside the game though.

Has there been any indication about stats limiting the number of companions the PC can pick up? High charisma, party of 6, low charisma, party of... two?

Two souls in one body. Transgenders will be happy? I'm cool with all of this. Great update.

Of course your own personal desires do not render it a non-topic. It's a non-topic all on its own. Obviously not.

He's talking about the nex-gen-ification of RPGs. He's asking why you'd want these silly, inane qualities in a classic cRPG. I don't. Read my first post. That doesn't make it a non-topic.

I don't really understand how a transgender person with difficulty connecting to a nontransgendered character would find it easier to connect to an asexual race, much less a race that has no sexuality because it's a non-organic construct like a golem. And I don't understand how people fail to grasp role playing games are games where you're supposed to play(with implemented mechanics) other characters, not yourself. When asking for these gay/trans/furry/foot fetish/whatever people want to play themselves - you're a tranny irl, why don't you play a lawful neutral/dwarf/cleric-thief. If you want to play yourself having romances, changing clothes and arranging your house according to feng-shui, all the while making your avatar as close as possible to yourself, what the **** are you doing here? For such needs there is the Sims series. Sh**t, I've been doing it wrong? I always play as a male character finding it easyer to relate, and I've been having so much fun with my games! I do tend to mix it up a bit when it comes to the morality issues, but I never seem to be able to get the feel for female PCs the same way I do male PCs. Fu*k. Now I don't know what to do. Go play Sims/Second Life/Elder Scrolls Thanks, but no thanks - I think I'll stick to what I like. Then why would you try to turn that what you already like into something completely different What are you talking about?

I don't really understand how a transgender person with difficulty connecting to a nontransgendered character would find it easier to connect to an asexual race, much less a race that has no sexuality because it's a non-organic construct like a golem. And I don't understand how people fail to grasp role playing games are games where you're supposed to play(with implemented mechanics) other characters, not yourself. When asking for these gay/trans/furry/foot fetish/whatever people want to play themselves - you're a tranny irl, why don't you play a lawful neutral/dwarf/cleric-thief. If you want to play yourself having romances, changing clothes and arranging your house according to feng-shui, all the while making your avatar as close as possible to yourself, what the **** are you doing here? For such needs there is the Sims series. Sh**t, I've been doing it wrong? I always play as a male character finding it easyer to relate, and I've been having so much fun with my games! I do tend to mix it up a bit when it comes to the morality issues, but I never seem to be able to get the feel for female PCs the same way I do male PCs. Fu*k. Now I don't know what to do. Go play Sims/Second Life/Elder Scrolls Thanks, but no thanks - I think I'll stick to what I like.

Because this is supposed to be a return to the classic IE cRPG days, not a real life emulator. Where do you draw the line? "I am extremely ADHD so I want Obsidian to include a ritalin meter (come on, George Ziets!) where I'll go into an "interruption mode" where my character won't let anybody finish their sentences when it wears off. I want this because I have a hard time relating to people in a more appropriate format than videogames." Yes, yes it is. And different people propose different ways to enhance and better those experiences. For some, this is one of them. For others it is all about setting. At the end of the day it's up to obsidian to make the best game possible. The have to choose what to implement and what not to implement. Until then I would say most issues are of potential intest, from combat to story, morality, political issues and, yes, gender issues (maybe as a part of the political and/or morality discussion). It's not like anyone is going to make obsidian do anything they don't want to do. I just don't see why the things that are important to you should be up for discussion while the things that are important to others should be met with... well, non-discussion. A debate about the relevance of the topic itself. If you don't care for the topic, discuss something else! If you do care, let's say you're totally against what's being proposed, tell people why you are against it. At the end of the day few will be pissed off if this is not implemented. Hell, I'm pretty much against it (see my first post). It doesn't make it a non-issue any more than guns vs no guns is a non-issue.

I don't really understand how a transgender person with difficulty connecting to a nontransgendered character would find it easier to connect to an asexual race, much less a race that has no sexuality because it's a non-organic construct like a golem. And I don't understand how people fail to grasp role playing games are games where you're supposed to play(with implemented mechanics) other characters, not yourself. When asking for these gay/trans/furry/foot fetish/whatever people want to play themselves - you're a tranny irl, why don't you play a lawful neutral/dwarf/cleric-thief. If you want to play yourself having romances, changing clothes and arranging your house according to feng-shui, all the while making your avatar as close as possible to yourself, what the **** are you doing here? For such needs there is the Sims series. Sh**t, I've been doing it wrong? I always play as a male character finding it easyer to relate, and I've been having so much fun with my games! I do tend to mix it up a bit when it comes to the morality issues, but I never seem to be able to get the feel for female PCs the same way I do male PCs. Fu*k. Now I don't know what to do.

I think you are safe. And more to the point, you having an opinion on this goes a long way to show that gender-issues are important to many, including you (and me). Me? I want to play a straight guy - probably human. And yes, this is because it's familiar and easyer to relate to. I'm probably safe to. When it comes to sexuality I expect it to be handled in a mature and adult way. I expect to find homosexuals in the world, but how the world reacts to the issue can be handled in many different ways. I hope the reaction differs in the world from faction to faction (races, towns/villages, religious/secular institutions), but I'm cool with the Fallout NV version too. The most important thing is for it to make sense in the setting presented. The non-existence of homosexuality would feel the most jarring as far as I'm concerned. It would be like implying that people don't need food, don't need sleep/rest and other strange consepts. Sure, it's a fantasy-world, but you come to expect some focus on... Well, realism in these games as well. The existence of males and females is one such example. They could go for an all out male population with some sort of fantastical reproduction-system, but it would still feel...wrong.

I'm not sure why they don't just play Second Life if that's what people want. Why expect a cRPG to be some all-inclusive real life simulation? I don't get this reaction. This is a kickstarter. People want to debate and be a part of the creative process. Some people want turn based combat. Some want deep political story lines. Some people want cool companions, and some want a different approach to the gender issue. Why should this be a non-issue in this process? I don't get it. In this particular case I don't think it needs to be implemented specifically in the game mechanics, but that doesn't make it a silly topic. If this does not interest you at all, discuss something else. If you are against it, say so, but do it in an adult and sivilized manner. It's not that hard.

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer. I guess that woul com down to personal opinion. Some people want a fleshed out PC, somewhat limiting the role playing potential - but at the same time offering a rich in-game experience -, others want a clean sheet opening up for limitless role playing, at the cost of some times stumbling upon impossible encounters where none of the alternatives offered by the game really is "in character" for the role you have created. I like the first one better - and I expect you do too. I still tend to elaborate on the information the game provides me with though. I have your clean sheet right here: notepad.exe Think of the rich role playing possibilities with literary nothing to limit one but one's own imagination (that might be a bit of a hurdle to clear for some people, I admit). Some might enjoy that. Most people probably want something that is not of their own making to interact with though. Something along the lines of a video game world maybe? But they are not interacting in any meaningful way. If I am going to creepily stalk a female NPC across town and then lock her in her own house I can certainly pretend that she is my girlfriend, but it does not matter in the game unless some other part of it acknowledges this fact. And it won't. cRPGs should have a robust system that tries to take into account the most variables possible, not a barebones one that depends on you to do most of the work while ignoring your actions completely. That's just lazy design. I both agree and disagree. Given the example you lay out here, I agree completely. It doesn't make sense, and the game does not offer you any potential for interacting with it along those lines. But I always tend to add some info to the characters i play that is not offered by the game. In Fallout 2 I might give the protagonist racist tendencies based on him never before having encountered anyone not like him. The game does not give me any information supporting such a choice, but based on this choice I could play a character that kills any ghoul or Super-Mutant on sight. Similar examples could easily be made for a transgendered person. I could be wrong but Falout IIRC gives you dialog options to voice your opinions of ghouls/supermutants. And you can definitely screw them over by your actions instead of just some random killing spree - see Vault City. That's not really the point though, is it? Had this not been a part of the game design I would still have been able to play such a character without breaking Immersion the way your example would. I could play someone hating females too. I could refuse talking to females, and I could be an **** to anyone I was forced to talk to. The game does not give me this character trait - but it wouldn't be any less part of my role playing experience throughout the game.

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer. I guess that woul com down to personal opinion. Some people want a fleshed out PC, somewhat limiting the role playing potential - but at the same time offering a rich in-game experience -, others want a clean sheet opening up for limitless role playing, at the cost of some times stumbling upon impossible encounters where none of the alternatives offered by the game really is "in character" for the role you have created. I like the first one better - and I expect you do too. I still tend to elaborate on the information the game provides me with though. I have your clean sheet right here: notepad.exe Think of the rich role playing possibilities with literary nothing to limit one but one's own imagination (that might be a bit of a hurdle to clear for some people, I admit). Some might enjoy that. Most people probably want something that is not of their own making to interact with though. Something along the lines of a video game world maybe? But they are not interacting in any meaningful way. If I am going to creepily stalk a female NPC across town and then lock her in her own house I can certainly pretend that she is my girlfriend, but it does not matter in the game unless some other part of it acknowledges this fact. And it won't. cRPGs should have a robust system that tries to take into account the most variables possible, not a barebones one that depends on you to do most of the work while ignoring your actions completely. That's just lazy design. I both agree and disagree. Given the example you lay out here, I agree completely. It doesn't make sense, and the game does not offer you any potential for interacting with it along those lines. But I always tend to add some info to the characters i play that is not offered by the game. In Fallout 2 I might give the protagonist racist tendencies based on him never before having encountered anyone not like him. The game does not give me any information supporting such a choice, but based on this choice I could play a character that kills any ghoul or Super-Mutant on sight. Similar examples could easily be made for a transgendered person.

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer. I guess that woul com down to personal opinion. Some people want a fleshed out PC, somewhat limiting the role playing potential - but at the same time offering a rich in-game experience -, others want a clean sheet opening up for limitless role playing, at the cost of some times stumbling upon impossible encounters where none of the alternatives offered by the game really is "in character" for the role you have created. I like the first one better - and I expect you do too. I still tend to elaborate on the information the game provides me with though. I have your clean sheet right here: notepad.exe Think of the rich role playing possibilities with literary nothing to limit one but one's own imagination (that might be a bit of a hurdle to clear for some people, I admit). Some might enjoy that. Most people probably want something that is not of their own making to interact with though. Something along the lines of a video game world maybe?

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though. I know but it bears repeating every time the silly advice "just role play it in your head" comes up. It's pure cancer. I guess that would come down to personal opinion and taste. Some people want a fleshed out PC, somewhat limiting the role playing potential - but at the same time offering a rich in-game experience -, others want a clean sheet opening up for limitless role playing, at the cost of some times stumbling upon impossible encounters where none of the alternatives offered by the game really is "in character" for the role you have created. I like the first one better - and I expect you do too. I still tend to elaborate on the information the game provides me with though.

That doesn't start or stop with sexuality/gender-topics though.

Cross dressing would be kind of cool though. No "female only" clothes - and the world reacting to cross dressers. Everything from "Hello [(N)PC-NAME]" to "..um.. what the fu... ah, whatever" and "What the hell? Die, freak!".

Yes, here we go again... Really not up to drgonzo though.

To make the PC transgender should, as mentioned above, be pretty easy to do without making it a part of the game mechanics. The PC is never going to be as "fleshed out" as the NPCs in a game like this, and filling out the blanks is pretty much a part of the game experience for any type of character. As for the NPCs and the rest of the world at large I'm cool with anything that a)makes sense in the narrative at large and b) is well executed. Said it in the other thread (one of the others), sexual morality questions - with different views in different parts of the world - could be very interesting to explore in a game like this if it is implemented in a good way. The Fallout NV-route is cool as well. I don't want any straight or gay character throwing their sexuality at me in rediculous ways - keep it realistic an keep it dignified. We don't really need "I'm the only gay in this village"-characters - though, come to think of it, as a referance that would be pretty funny (Sorry about spelling errors - non-english auto-correct at work...)

Or how about the cRPG community where most people are more concerned about gameplay than crying out for the inclusion of blatant attempts at pandering to any consumer's sexual preferences, sex lives (or lack thereof), politics or religion? Yeah, how 'bout that. Why is it OK debating (read: ask Obsidian to include) turn based combat, guns and strongholds, but not gay characters and/or storylines? Why is it ok to ask for fleshed out characters with personality, but not characters with certain character traits? Why is the first up for debate, white the second should just end up being whatever Obsidian desides? Now, it is of course possible to say that everything should be made in the makers (hah!) image, but why are you here if you don't want to debate and hopefully contribute to the end product? What the hell folks, what makes this issue any different from all the others being discussed?

Agree. That beeing said, the idea of having different moral standards for sexuality in different communities in the game would be good as well. That goes for other political, religious and morality issues as well.

Agree. No sex. No politics. No religion. Come to think of it, no choice in any respect what so ever would be best. I vote Butterfly-simulator! But religion, politics and sex would be pivotal within the game's setting. A character's sexual preferences, however, would not be. Unless the game actively tries to make the concept of different sexualities a pivotal theme throughout the game; which in all honesty would be very odd. If sex is pivotal, how is it possible to portray it in any form without touching on orientation/preferences?

Agree. No sex. No politics. No religion. Come to think of it, no choice in any respect what so ever would be best. I vote Butterfly-simulator!