Lord Elvewyn

Console's don't really relate to the PC experience which is what serenity is complaining about. That's my point. You buy bottles not jugs. Maybe if you milked the cow it'd be in a jug. You obviously missed the bit about there not being anything about Steam on the box (actually there was but it was covered by a sticker). So to get back to the milk scenario, the milk brand has always been associated with chocolate milk, so you expect that when you see that brand. Now IF this bottle of milk is labelled in such a way as to show it's not chocolate milk, it only says milk looks white etc, then you can't demand your money back because it's not chocolate. IF however the note on the side saying Warning: consumer must use straw to drink this product is covered up, and it isn't evident that it's not a standalone product, then a consumer has the right to demand their money back because they aren't getting what they thought they were due to misleading labelling. The buyer beware bit is when the bottle could be either milk or chocolate milk - it merely says flavoured milk, and you assume that it must be chocolate milk. Sampling's where the physical\digital metaphor always breaks down. Yes doing a taste test of the sample (demo) would have been wiser but it's not imperative. In this metaphor serenity tried the milk, which makes it a used product, but the bottle's still as full as ever, I'll leave it up to your imagination to work out how Who's complaining about the farmer anyway? You complain about the farmer if the milk is a bad product, you go to the shop if you want your money back.

Renting's only available for consoles. And we'll have to agree to disagree about DS3 being a great game. I think I'll hold my hopes for Skyrim, which sounds like Elder Scrolls meets DS, maybe. Either or will be fine, just not DS3. Your example would be better if you said bought a jug (??? and where do you get jugs from???) of milk then discovered you couldn't drink it without a straw. Then once you went and got the straw you need but don't want you discover it's not dairy milk it's soy milk. Okay you can't request a refund that it's soy not dairy, the product merely claims to be milk, but failing to note that you need a straw to use the product? Yeah that's a deal breaker. Depending on the product and stuff it's false advertising.

If it's advertised falsely - no notice about needing internet, or there was a sticker that precluded reading the requirements then it's not buyer beware. Of course if you bought it from EB Games you could just take it back. One advantage of their returns policy

No idea where this score comes from but at present it's #22 on Steam's top 100 played game list. Sounds good but if you check the stats it's only doing about 3x better than Oblivion which is a much older game and only just beating Duke Nukem which is a stinker of a game - rated 3.5 (BAD) by GameSpot! The real test of its quality, as aside from how much money it'll make, is how long it'll get played for. Rank | Current Players | Peak Today | Game #1 | 19,902 |24,657 | Team Fortress 2 #4 | 12,352 | 15,597 | Sid Meier's Civilization V #14 | 4,082 | 7,604 | Total War SHOGUN 2 #18 | 3,240 | 6,906 | Empire: Total War #22 | 2,727 | 4,220 | Dungeon Siege III #23 | 2,184 | 4,342 | Duke Nukem Forever #40 | 935 | 1,043 | The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Game of the Year Edition

Say what? Monsters do respawn in DS2. It's only DS1 they don't. Passive skills weere actually of significant benefit in DS2. You can also get all the unique items in DS2.

Here's the bulletpoint review from http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/dungeon-sieg...y%3Bread-review The Good Smooth flow of loot keeps you pressing forward Your choices steer certain story elements Simple but entertaining combat for up to four players. The Bad A fraction of the length of previous Dungeon Siege games Absurd co-op limitations The camera can be a pain Controls and interface aren't tailored properly for the PC. 6.0\10 - Fair: Games that earn 6-range ratings have certain good qualities but significant problems as well. These games may well be worth playing, but you should approach them with caution. For comparison ratings, DS1 scored 8.4 (Great), DS2 scored 7.9 (Good). Seems like anything under a 7 isn't recommended by GameSpot. DS3 is really DS for consoles, though if it weren't for the fact that it's set in Ehb, you'd never realise it's actually supposed to be DS. Fans will miss the ability to customise their own characters which the 4 forgettable characters don't make up for. Basically it's "... a short and simple dungeon crawler with no aspirations to be anything more ... And if you did play [DS1 & DS2] you're bound to be disappointed by how everything that made previous Dungeon Siege games special was stripped away" Hmm just noticed some additional critiquing on the review page: Disappointing, half finished and has a weak story - Not an issue for DS1\DS2 (they didn't claim story as a major component). Ouch!

DS1\DS2 and most games you stay 'balanced' with the enemy because as the game progresses linearly and as you level up you encounter tougher foes (who provide more XP). Oblivion etc, is one of the few games I'm aware of with levelling foes and I hadn't heard of it for DS3. Then again everything else is changing so why not this?

Mouse and keyboard are the basic PC control whereas controllers are for consoles. Sure if you're into driving games you get a steering wheel, or a joystick for flight games but a console style controller for a computer?!?!? Where do you see those? I remember having a gamepad back in the days of DOS or something but that's eons ago. I can't recall having seen one since. I admit I don't go PC shopping very often but joysticks and steering kits are common, console controllers for PC's aren't.

Seems like really strange poll results. Two thirds of people, as of posting this at least, say they want to buy the game but an equal number when asked whether they'll cancel their pre-order are saying they will. How can people love a game but still want to cancel their order?!?!? Don't you either love OR hate something?

Okay I'm resurrecting an old thread here. Topeira, have you considered Skyrim - Elder Scrolls V? I'm not sure how I stumbled over it, though I'm enjoying Oblivion just at present. It's an FPS style RPG (FPRPG?) so does the whole WASD thing. From what I've read Skyrim should have DS style health\mana, complex magic and weapons (split left and right hand usage), selectable DS2 style perks etc. Oh yeah, sounds like active blocking too if you want the whole grr me smash melee route. Might have to wait a while though - it's not scheduled 'til 11/11/11

DS vanilla was probably easier but that's easily tweaked. I don't think you can have more focus on combat than DS. The difference is how it works. DS1 controls what attack you perfom and who you perform it on. DS3 seems to be more controlling each punch you throw and where you throw it. One characters not the big issue. That's just solo-multiplayer. Nerfed abilities\spell casting is an issue. Retreat and regen's just an alternative to die-respawn strategies. It has the positive you can have a break get a coffee (or whatever you drink) and give your hands\wrists a break. Tactics strategy is how you take a boss\enemy down. If foes regen as well retreat regen streategies only mean you rethink your strategy it doesn't give you any benefit as in DS1 where foes don't regen. Agreed that it's too late for radical changes. This is a common misunderstanding. Positive reinforcement is indeed good, but nothing tell us that positive reinforcement to the exclusion of all negative motivations is beneficial. Especially in a game environment, you need to have an appropriate mix of punishments and rewards. Because it's not enough to just encourage the player to solve the problem, or to make him anticipate the rewards of solving the problem - you also want him to dread what might happen if the problem is not solved, and dread the various roadblocks and what they might do to him on the way. Because overcoming obstacles and achieving victory is all the sweeter when it comes after failure, or you know the punishments you have been able to avoid. The only problem is when the balance is off, and the player is too frustrated. (btw, I thought we had mild regeneration in DS3, at least in lower difficulties? No?) Yes I thought regen existed. May only be health - mage penalty? That's what makes it more exciting and fun, isn't it? I mean, we dont' enjoy watching a movie where James Bond/whoever always has exactly the right tool to defeat his opponent. We like situations where he has to kill 3 guys with 2 bullets, or forced to go toe to toe with someone bigger and meaner. Again, the only problem would be if Lucas was so handicapped against the boss it is much harder than usual (which would be a flaw with the encounter design, not the combat system), or if globules of health didn't drop like flies all the time like we've seen in previews. Hell, every character has a defensive stance where they regain health! I really think you're exaggerating the extent of the problem. That's not really an issue. mages often get penalised in games. Something that penalised a melee character would be a welcome change. The issue is if every encounter penalises a class.

I thought the defensive mode (3rd stance) allowed regen? Am I mistaken? If it's only health then that only helps melee\ranged units, well in DS1\DS2 it would. No idea about this.

Most gamers own a console anyways... Do they? And even if they do will it be suitable? I think of my crowd - Xbox, couple of Wii's, and of course PC only. No PS as I recall.

In an article I read, it stated there would be more than achievements and trophies. Which leads me to believe you get in-game items or power-ups. Personally I'd like a power-up. http://www.destructoid.com/obsidian-explai...ns-195120.phtml "Achievements and Trophies earned in multiplayer are still saved to your profile as normal and there are additional awards that you can only receive from playing in a multiplayer co-operative game." Either way, I like achievements. Rather it be lame or great. This game is cool and if my laptop can play it, then I will get it. I am boycotting Diablo 3 after all because of it's satanic theme and name. And yes I know DS3 is a lil bad too, but it's a lil better than way demonic. What is it you have against demonic and satanic stuff? You know it doesn't exist? That's a matter of opinion. Even if you're an atheist (and therefore don't believe in God or the devil) it doesn't mean you have to be comfortable with that kind of stuff.

Exaggeration's useful sometimes Yes I did think the P&C a plus but too little too late. Too much action not enough DS RPG

People also forget that Chris Taylor himself wanted to take the series in a one-character-focused direction anyway. Not to say that people don't have a right to not like if a component that they considered the core of the experience for them has been taken out, don't get me wrong, but I don't think Obsidian is altering the fundamentals of the franchise. Then again, it just may be because I have no attachment to it. Party play was only 1 componenet of DS. If you played multiplayer maps you lost it anyhow unless you had a team going. I don't think anyone's complaining much about not being able to directly play all party members.

I'm pretty sure about everyone at Obsidian would have rather worked on their own IP's. But that's not how the gaming business works... Also I'm pretty sure the publisher has a thing or two to say about what kinda features they are gonna implement into the game. I wonder if this is how Bethesda fans feel about original Fallout fans. "OMG they are ruining the franchise". When few things are done differently. I didn't even know original DS had a proper multiplayer until someone here mentioned it. Don't think any of the reviews I read mentioned anything about it at all. But apparently Dungeon Siege is only about online multiplayer. More the multiplayer world. I only played online once -dialup but played 'multiplayer' games a lot. It allowed for more exploration & character upgrading. DS3 seems to be more a case of a console party game. Drop in to play a bit then quit. As long as the host grinds to the end of the game everything's fine. Once that run's over everything resets and someone else can host. Okay maybe a really really long party game (20hrs?) but it sounds more like ultra casual gaming than months spent trying to get XXXXX.

Not.... really. Advertisment on TV, multiple Interviews, multiple Trailers, Comic. Its not as much as they do for Human Revolution but its still a lot. TV advertisment? I'm guessing on a US channel?

the game was built with a controller in mind so the gameplay fits fast reactions from the player. P&C is NOT for fast reactions. i think it was shoehorned into DS3 PC to allow a m\kb. i hope im wrong and i hope there will be enough constumizability to the keyboard. as i gave an example - spiral knights is a game that does this PERFECTLY - allowing both P&C and WASD movement. doesnt take a genius to do this. only will and the understanding that it's needed. @C2B, i dont hate ppl comparing things that shouldnt be compared. i hate IT when ppl compare. i hate the comparison. i dont hate ppl in general. ppl are nice most of the time there are a lot of common things in DS2 and DS3 but the way combat looks is not one of them. combat is fast and movement based in DS3 while it ISNT like that in P&C diablo style games where is "walk. stop. attack attack attack attack. drink potion. attack attack attack. potion. attack. win". in DS3 there seems to be a big emphasys on how fast u react to enemies attack which is more like "move. attack. attack. enemy swings your way so u dodge. attack. dodge again. attack. disingage close enemies and move to other enemies. attack. block. attack. etc". this type of combat is very action oriented. cant see how dodging quickly and keeping aim at enemies will work in a P&C method. if movement was WASD than u can keep the aim at enemies while u dodge and move with the keys. no problem here. the advantage of m\kb can be to its fullest with WASD+mouse to aim. this way u can aim and move seperately and aiming can be really accurate with long range attacks. the player loses nearly nothing over the controller scheme (he will be limited to 8 movement directions but that's never a real problem in action games) and gains extra accuracy with projectiles and efficiency with multi tasking. I can appreciate that you hate the comparison (not the people making it) The problem is this game is called DS3. If the game had been called anything else, Dungeon Siege: XXX the comparison wouldn't be made, or at least not as readily. It'd be like comparing C&C1-3 (strategy) with C&C Renegade (FPS?). To me the game feels more like Streets of Rage or Golden Axe (really old!) than anything else I've encountered. It's set in the DS universe but doesn't play or feel like DS. And that's the problem.

The problem I see with this is it assumes only two abilities. Are you positive about this? With DS1 there was 1 melee slot, 1 ranged slot, and 2 spell slots. DS2 had additional spell slots, at least 2 autocast. Both had extensive spellbooks with selectable options, though the drop down menu was slow. While I've no issue with pruning this to only what's relevant it seems to me that Reinhart at least should potentially have more than two attacks to use at the same time, after all he's supposed to be some sort of wizard. I'd suggest right mouse as abilty\attack with ~,1,2,3,...,0,-,= as action selection. Perhaps / for stance switching instead? There's also the issue of companion interactions. Are they a totally independant entity or can you give them orders - move their, attack them, etc? To steal ME2 controls, perhaps Q&E and given there's no need to reload guns R for the final companion. Any other commands required? No potions so H&M aren't required. Oh what about Tab for the map? I don't have any issue with the P&C, it's a rare positive for me, but like you I've hit pessimistic and beyond. I'll keep watching\posting for curiosity sake but ...

Up to four players online, each player using one of the pre-defined characters (Lucas, Anjali, Katarina or Reinhart). No character can be used by more than one player. As far as we know, characters exist only in the context of one play-through, so you can't take the character you used and store it on your profile. As such, DS3 is meant to be played with friends or with an organized group. Still seems to be mixed messages about local storage. That's what I thought happened but someone said something about inventory being stored locally or something. Obviously a great deal of confusion\uncertainty still.