BruceVC

The development of both Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity could potentially be a paradigm shift in the way games are financed going forward. As mentioned the games should be now designed more for what fans want that actually funded the games, however there are few considerations Once the games are released there will be some very upset fans as the developers can't put in every feature that people want. So expect some raging and comments like " thats the last time I support a KS project" Publishers aren't all bad and do some good things. Like distribution, marketing and support. Also remember the days when games like BG2 used a publisher,Interplay, and the games released were still complex and entertaining Finally we still need to see that the 2 listed RPG from KS are going to be financially successful when released. For me this is the most important point,until the games are released and we see how good they are we can only assume that this type of fan funding will continue. I don't believe in a real revolution until we see the revenue generated as then other developers will follow this route

Just for that I'm going to start one of my own tomorrow. Lol, that was quite funny

Normally I would say debate is healthy, but we won't agree so the points raised agagainst Romance\Sex are generally the same and become repetitive.

Here's the weird part: we're not trying to change your minds. In fact...this has absolutely nothing to do with "you". Excellent, then don't comment on threads that want romance\sex. You made your point perfectly clear. I appreciate the input.

If that's the way you feel, why are you even posting in this forum? Virtually this entire place is devoted to people asking the devs to include stuff they care about in the game. It's also dedicated to having discussions and giving feedback on what we don't want. Romances in video games are terrible and are never done well. They aren't needed for a good story. That's just crazy talk. And I'm not sure why we have another one of these threads when one was closed yesterday. Heres the weird part, you won't change our minds about Romance\Sex in the game yet you continue to comment against what we want? Why don't you start a thread entitled " I don't want Romance\Sex" and then you can debate all the reasons you don't want relationships in the game until the cows come home. I promise not to comment in your thread. I am not trying to offend you but we have reached an impasse as you pointed out so lets leave each others views alone.

It's Jim Sterling. What'd you expect? I have no clue who that is. He is one of the contributing editors at Destructoid and writes "news" articles and gaming reviews. I don't like him as he manipulates gamers by raging and then exaggerating issues that he knows gamers are passionate about. He does have certain fans though

Yes please, I voted for Undead in tombs and crypts. I consider Undead part of all good fantasy settings, so why not?

I can't see how this would happen unless the developers choose to sell there IP and then its there choice. Up to now most developers had to use Publishers due to limited funds. But they did agree to this, it wasn't like they were forced. Yes its not right but it was the way the world worked... until now. KS can permanently change this type of financial model and if Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity are financially successful then I predict we will see a paradigm shift around the way the games are produced.

I don't particularly like Jim Sterling, he is a master of theatrics and a populist when it comes to his rants to gamers. He knows how to get gamers riled up and supportive of his articles. I remember his diatribe about Pirating, it ended with him saying something similar to "f**k all publishers and if you can Pirate then you should" Anyway whatever Publisher tried to do this is very disingenuous but it wouldn't be someone as large as EA or Atari. They have lots of money to fund games. Its probably one of the smaller ones

You are, of course, free to believe what you like but I'd be willing to wager most people with healthy social lives do not post on videogame message boards asking for the inclusion of romances. This topic never even occurred to me until other people started to post here about the subject. Huh? What you saying makes no sense and you can't produce any evidence to suggest that people, like me, who want relationships in a game ask for them because they are socially inadequate in RL. Seriously lad, you are making massive assumptions?

Just for the record if there are straight relationships why can't there be gay relationships? You don't need to pursue them but the option is there.

I want to play AP, I have played NWN2 and F:NV and loved them both You mentioned its dirt cheap. Where can I buy it, on Steam? It's $20 on steam right now, but it's been as low as $2 in steam sales. Excellent, thanks. I'll buy it tonight Update : The purchase is done, once I install it I'll go the AP forums to say hi.

I agree, I thought both NWN1&2 were excellent and offered many hours of good, fantasy RPG entertainment. Sometimes I think people expect too much from games, they want inspiration. Instead of settling for good fun.

Wow, how was Ultima IV? I have always said I wanted to play the Ultima games but I am grappling with the outdated visuals, of course graphics aren't everything and I have played games from 1999 that were excellent. I know you can get some fan recreation of the games from about Ultima V but I can't quite get into the older Ultima series.

I want to play AP, I have played NWN2 and F:NV and loved them both You mentioned its dirt cheap. Where can I buy it, on Steam?

For me it was BG and NWN2

Yeah it is good news indeed. I wonder if this game was the quickest game ever to reach its minimum funding?

Yeah this is just like the Bioware forums with Biowarians demanding romances that last throughout the game. It's god awful because they never shut up and will keep this thread going for 300 pages and just keep on saying they want romances and what they should be etc just like on the Bioware forums. It's terrible. Grimlorn there wouldn't be such a debate if you agreed with us and supported the idea of romances and sex with characters . And as I mentioned because this is what the majority of people want you should acquiesce to this point? You would be making the right moral choice.

You right. You are a bigot and you have a derogatory view on gay relationships, how did you word it .."yuck". Tell me something, what would people think if you said " I hope this game doesn't have African American people in it, its so controversial" ? Discrimination is discrimination, and you can try to say its your opinion as if it that makes it right but it doesn't.

Honestly I find your homophobic perspective distasteful. Some of us respect the fact that if straight people can have relationships in a game then so can gay people. And no need to worry, gay relationships in a game don't effect sales as we can see from the DA franchise.

Dear Jira, Here is a valuable argument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpdzdhm9ZUk Kind regards, Longknife Lol..that did make me laugh But Longknife are you suggesting that the utterances of love, now and forever, in that video weren't sincere and that they didn't emotionally move you?

If romance is included in the game, then just don't pursue it if you hate it. Simple. I just don't understand why people want to be ABLE to interact with their companions and world with every known possible human emotion (anger, pride, rage, frustation, sorrow, disappointment, envy, regret, satisfaction, fear, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.).... but have a problem with love, lust and passion. That seriously does not make sense to me. You are not the only one I dont make sense to me either... And the anti-romance side dont state out many valuable arguments. kind regards, Jira I also agree with you two

I understand what you are saying and I can see why it makes sense from your perspective. But the fundamental question is "why would a person want sex in an RPG ". This will differ from person to person. For me I am lover of the immersion of RPG. I can spend up to 100 hours playing an RPG. You form an virtual empathetic bond with your character in the game if its good. As someone who use to Dungeon Master in the original D&D pen and paper game I know how seriously people take there characters. We know its not real but its still important that you can define there actions, how they look and what the game allows them to do. So its perfectly logical that you would want your character to have sex with other characters. It adds to the overall experience of immersion. Many fantasy sagas, like the original Conan books, sex was ubiquitous. I love the Conan world so part of me wants to act like him when I play a game that represents his universe Finally you can't use the argument "Sex in the game can't be something that actually appeals to people, its just a pixel resolution with a few programmed responses". I could easily make a counter- aargument " why play a game with magic, monsters and strange quests. Its not even real. What possible reason would you enjoy such nonsense" Of course my last point doesn't apply as people play RPG for a variety of known and personal reasons. And most of us love them as our favorite gaming genres But this is basic sex and flirting. Basic sex and flirting can be fun, and you don't need to be attracted to someone to understand the appeal of sex and flirting. FFS you can watch two people having sex or flirting well (as in both are witty) and actually enjoy it. I can roleplay this BECAUSE it's somehow funny to see the Courier and Sarah Weintraub use sexual innuendo in conversation about leather suits. But watching two people be romantic with one another? Watching them feel madly in love with each other, staring longingly into each other's eyes? Very boring, and sometimes downright annoying. And this is exactly how I feel. I don't enjoy roleplaying romance. Sex or flirting? As long as it's not constant, in-your-face and overboard, fine, but don't try to make me have an attachment to another character please.... I see what you are saying and I agree. For me I am only talking about sex with characters in the RPG, like Isabella( DA2) and Viconia (BG2). I don't look for some kind of real romance because its just a game and there aren't real emotional feelings for me. But I do enjoy the roleplaying aspect and I did find both the ladies I mentioned attractive, even though they are just virtual characters

I understand what you are saying and I can see why it makes sense from your perspective. But the fundamental question is "why would a person want sex in an RPG ". This will differ from person to person. For me I am lover of the immersion of RPG. I can spend up to 100 hours playing an RPG. You form an virtual empathetic bond with your character in the game if its good. As someone who use to Dungeon Master in the original D&D pen and paper game I know how seriously people take there characters. We know its not real but its still important that you can define there actions, how they look and what the game allows them to do. So its perfectly logical that you would want your character to have sex with other characters. It adds to the overall experience of immersion. Many fantasy sagas, like the original Conan books, sex was ubiquitous. I love the Conan world so part of me wants to act like him when I play a game that represents his universe Finally you can't use the argument "Sex in the game can't be something that actually appeals to people, its just a pixel resolution with a few programmed responses". I could easily make a counter- aargument " why play a game with magic, monsters and strange quests. Its not even real. What possible reason would you enjoy such nonsense" Of course my last point doesn't apply as people play RPG for a variety of known and personal reasons. And most of us love them as our favorite gaming genres But this is basic sex and flirting. Basic sex and flirting can be fun, and you don't need to be attracted to someone to understand the appeal of sex and flirting. FFS you can watch two people having sex or flirting well (as in both are witty) and actually enjoy it. I can roleplay this BECAUSE it's somehow funny to see the Courier and Sarah Weintraub use sexual innuendo in conversation about leather suits. But watching two people be romantic with one another? Watching them feel madly in love with each other, staring longingly into each other's eyes? Very boring, and sometimes downright annoying. And this is exactly how I feel. I don't enjoy roleplaying romance. Sex or flirting? As long as it's not constant, in-your-face and overboard, fine, but don't try to make me have an attachment to another character please.... I see what you are saying and I agree. For me I am only talking about sex with characters in the RPG, like Isabella( DA2) and Viconia (BG2). I don't look for some kind of real romance because its just a game and there aren't real emotional feelings for me. But I do enjoy the roleplaying aspect and I did find both the ladies I mentioned attractive, even though they are just virtual characters

I understand what you are saying and I can see why it makes sense from your perspective. But the fundamental question is "why would a person want sex in an RPG ". This will differ from person to person. For me I am lover of the immersion of RPG. I can spend up to 100 hours playing an RPG. You form a virtual empathetic bond with your character in the game if its good. As someone who use to Dungeon Master in the original D&D pen and paper game I know how seriously people take there characters. We know its not real but its still important that you can define there actions, how they look and what the game allows them to do. So its perfectly logical that you would want your character to have sex with other characters. It adds to the overall experience of immersion. Many fantasy sagas, like the original Conan books, sex was ubiquitous. I love the Conan world so part of me wants to act like him when I play a game that represents his universe Finally you can't use the argument "Sex in the game can't be something that actually appeals to people, its just a pixel resolution with a few programmed responses". I could easily make a counter- argument " why play a game with magic, monsters and strange quests. Its not even real. What possible reason would you enjoy such nonsense" Of course my last point doesn't apply as people play RPG for a variety of known and personal reasons. And most of us love them as our favorite gaming genres