BruceVC

I can understand how you think I'm inconsistent and how it appears my view is hypocritical But its not, it makes perfect sense. I just need to explain in more detail because you have raised valid issues. I am going to try to simplify my points and be direct but if anything doesn't make sense ask and I'll clarify So the first thing is you have to understand the overall strategy and view of what the West wants from the ME and what it is prepared to do to achieve this The alliance with Saudi and the USA is old and was initially about oil. But as you know the USA is now the worlds biggest producer of oil and that is also the reason why there is this price war going and why the oil price is so low....the Saudis are determined to put the American shale producers out of business. http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/u-s-overtakes-saudi-arabia-russia-worlds-biggest-oil-producer/ Anyway I digress, the Saudis became a much better ally of the USA after 911 when they became targets of Al-Qaeda, this obviously suited the West as the Saudi have effective information gathering techniques and they used them to help prevent attacks against the USA and they also became very committed to stopping Al-Qaeda ( yes they didn't do this because they like the USA, this was about there own security but the result was the same...) http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/Reports/Counterterrorism.pdf I don't expect you to read the whole thing, just skim through it. The point being the Saudi were very active in helping the West and containing Al-Qaeda in the years after 9/11...this must be recognized irrespective of there reasons Al-Qaeda is now gone....redundant. So the importance of this USA\Saudi alliance may seem irrelevant but it wasn't always so. Also whether you like there laws the Saudis are the leader of the Sunni\Gulf states in the ME and they have historically always shown less resentment to the West and have embraced many Western values and economic institutions. For example the UAE is the financial hub of the region and welcomes Westerners. So an important consideration is if you alienate Saudi Arabia you will automatically alienate states like Qatar and UAE....this is not something to do lightly due to economic consequences So now in summary, the USA use to rely on Saudi Arabia for oil, Saudi Arabia became a real ally of the West in the ME during the war agaisnt Al-Qaeda (2004-2011 ? ) and the Saudis are the leaders of a block of countries that the West at least understands as these countries understand things like economic growth and the importance of Western investment And you expect Obama to lecture the Saudi's about there laws that I have explained are enforced not by the Saudi royal family but by the clerics...and for what ? Because some guy gets beheaded and they don't respect women. Do you really care...they can behead another thousand people, I won't miss a second sleep..I worked in Saudi for 2 months and we all know they have barbaric laws but its not a Western issue and as I mentioned its definitely not worth jeopardizing the political relationship Now Iran....but I need a break ..let me know if you want my answer on Iran

No thats a little unfair..ISIS is much more brutal and barbaric Saudi Arabia is soon to decapitate and then crucify someone for taking part in a protest when they were 17. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3253285/If-die-ve-happy-life-Astonishing-bravery-boy-faces-beheaded-crucified-Saudi-Arabia-taking-protest-17.html Yes but guys they are an ally of the West. Also remember that in Saudi Arabia there are two primary fractions, the clerical judiciary are the anachronistic and ostensibly brutal group that enforce there version of Sharia law. And then you have large groups of moderates who are opposed to this type of violent enforcing of Islamic law but they are also not going to confront the clerics ...so we shouldn't judge the whole country Yes some of the things they enforce are appalling but our perspectives as Westerners will never agree on certain things in the ME and thats a good thing

Dude...you can't seriously think I have that much in common with her, she is about theatrics...I'm more concerned about real SJ changes and realities Of course I don't like how she was harassed but part of me thinks this suited her grand strategy. She ended up all right after all and is considered influential in anti-GG

Funny enough he is right in some ways, I don't support the rights of minorities because I'm worried that white, males are becoming marginalized But so what....he has no right to judge my commitment to SJ causes ? He is making an obvious comment that will just irritate people

Oh my...thats something I really will be avoiding. Imagine the " white, male " hating that will be occurring And its not that I don't think harassment isn't a problem in some places on the Internet its just I'm so tired of the pointlessness of these types of events. What possible new outcome will we get from this....." okay guys lets not be sexist/racist/homophobic" ...its not nice ? I wonder what Wu will be saying?

No thats a little unfair..ISIS is much more brutal and barbaric

No my friend sometimes we have to ignore certain behavior as the country is an ally. You have to ask " who is the greater threat to the region " And its not the Saudis and there conservative and anachronistic laws...its ISIS

Yeah you right but there were too many variables in the various events for it to be orchestrated or manipulated

It was never meant to be original, I was merely stating what I did And you seem to be ignoring the fact that I said they were not laughing out of maliciousness ...they think you are funny and used the word " legend" So please drop the victim card, its seems weird coming from you Well if people weren't provoking me by suggesting I'm trying to impress people on this forum by talking about an after party I had I would certainly be less sour

The thing I found even worse than all that...is that he TALKED about it to us - as if we would all somehow be impressed with his utterly ridiculous story. It'd be bad and cringe-worthy enough if he had just done it and then not mentioned it...if the story is even true, which I have serious doubts about: if it is true, then he's a narcissist for thinking that anyone else in the whole wide world besides him could ever possibly care about his silly little internet arguments (most of which, if I were him, I would not want to show anyone), or that it would somehow be cool with the ladies... If it was true, he must've somehow been enchanting enough of a personality at that "after party" that it wouldn't have mattered what he was talking about - he could have been talking about Hitler and how he was right and they still would've found him "funny", which seems ridiculous in itself, but stranger things have happened, particularly when it's around narcissists... And if it isn't true, then, well...that's even sadder. And then to actually talk about it like it's a legitimate point against Volourn...haha, good lord. Oh Bruce, I'm laughing alright, but it isn't at Volourn. Oh Barti ....look at you getting all cheeky and I realize TN was being sarcastic so I will retract my previous compliment But since both of you are being rude and dismissive with your comments I will stoop to your level Do you think I told that story to impress you? My comment was made towards Volo as that was who I was debating with. You obviously have a very low bar for what you think is impressive if you think inviting people to your house is impressive. And its clear both of you guys have no idea what an after party is ...and that doesn't surprise me as I would assume social skills and interacting with people isnt your strong point ...but lets not judge everyone on your shortfalls An after party is where you invite people back to your place after a bigger event. Since I live by myself and have high speed Internet so we can steam music my house is a good venue and since I was with a group of people, including a lady I like, I invited them back to my place...once again this is not a big deal. You need to get out more and you will also be invited to "after parties " And no I didn't show them the argument, my laptop is where I download the music from and Volo's characterization of me is funny so I showed them that part and they found it funny. Not the whole argument but just his accusation of me being an extremist...you see Barti you need to realize you may think its funny to call someone a Nazi but I don't and if someone is going to continue to say that to me then yes I will show others Yes we were all wasted and they probably would have laughed at anything but Volo's posting etiquette I find amusing so its unique. I still don't get how you can say I'm a narcissist ? Waaaaaaaa,,,,BruceVC is pathetic because he shows people funny things on his laptop. Yes I do quite regularly..these forums are entertaining

Hurlshot I would advise you don't watch it ...it may upset you when you see how some people will flagrantly embellish stories and "facts " about the USA

Varana I know I keep saying this but its been great having you comment on these forums. Its clear you are well informed and your knowledge of history clearly shows as your comments are always interesting I am surprised more people aren't giving you some credit for your insights but unfortunately my friend if you joined these forums for adulation you will be sorely disappointed....I joined about 3 years ago and I can count the number of times on one finger people recognised my view on topics like the ME But at least I give you credit...a few people would even say thats better than no one ? There are a few people on these forums who do prefer to believe conspiracy theories like the West was behind the Arab Spring so dont think its you if very few people agree with you

Yes, and he doesn't hide that fact. He used to be a jihadi, until he ended up in jail and subsequently changed his mind and turned to more political waters. Regardless, he paints a pretty damning picture of everyone, from the Saudis to the US, ISIS, the so called syrian opposition etc. Drowsy I could only stomach about 20 minutes with all the misinformation and comments like "Obama is now a Muslim and thats why he is supporting ISIS " Please don't tell me you believe what he says in this video ?

i am going to watch this whole video, which is rare for me to watch any videos because they waste time but since the whole " the CIA is behind ISIS " must be one of the most absurd conspiracy theories ever suggested I want to understand the whole logic

So you want to protect freedom by controlling major private companies? There are a gajillion social media options out there. Twitter will not be at the top forever, and if they make moves that end up making themselves obsolete, they get to hang out with Myspace in the has been pile. Sounds like a win-win. You assume much, chief. I said that Twitter is ****ed in the head for doing this, not that government should control them. Where did you get that silly idea from? My point is that people all over the world where they do not have the freedom to associate and to express themselves are dependent on these platforms, most often american ones since you guys have freedom written into the constitution, and that it is quite troubling, if not very worrysome when companies seems to be hellbent on restricting these very freedoms on the whims of their PR departments. Sure, there are alternatives and new ones will spring up, but i find it a serious issue when this very freedom constantly being pushed around, controlled, and even more serious when people seem to be totally unaware of the consequences of such. Sorry for the belated response but if there are seriously people who would rely on a medium like Twitter for there primary source of information and or direction then unfortunately they would be constantly at a disadvantage as social media is not considered a reliable source of information It was never meant to be that and if you are honest you would realize and accept that So once again to reiterate the point, it makes no substantial difference if Twitter is censored or monitored *sigh* I am surprised you couldn't make a normal response? My points weren't hard to understand ? Everything is clearly answered in the video provided, but as usual you snivel yourself out with non-sequiturs. It doesn't matter what you think about how reliable any social platform is, which is utterly pointless, when the point is that they are the ones that are used whether you like it or not and can be centralized, manipulated or at worst directed, whether you like it or not. OH...okay let me watch it, my bad I assumed it was an annoying joke Oh and the whole " BruceVC you don't ever answer questions " is so " 6 months old BruceVC posting etiquette " Nowadays I try to respond to all questions meaningfully if the person wants to debate in good faith. You are thinking about the old BruceVC from the GG debates where I admitted I had a misunderstanding Okay I watched the whole video. Before I say my next part I don't think I am clever than you and somehow you don't understand certain things ...but we have to accept we all have different life experience that give us certain insight on some matters that others may not have. Lets see this as a positive as it allows us to share information But that video has many, many things that are completely exaggerated and opportunistic. Some things he says are simply not true and he makes numerous false corollaries I can give some examples but only if you really want to have this debate? I also am interested if anyone else on this forum believes what he says ?

Thanks, thats a nice thing to say I'll be honest it doesnt feel like people appreciate me but this is a forum and I have to take some responsibility for some perceptions because I am guilty of being unintentionally condescending and being knowingly condescending at times And end of the day I have to try to be true to my principles and SJ code but that doesn't mean I should now always feel I have to criticize other people "who are in flagrant disregard of the Internet SJ code.,.,,and of course that means all white, male gamers need to change and accept change is coming and they must stop trying to marginalize women and being sexist " That type of patronizing, irritating, unhelpful and exaggerated hyperbole and rhetoric just annoys me now ....I realized a while ago that many aspects of anti-GG was just as bad if not worse than what they claim GG is about And I feel I did initially betray my SJ code by automatically supporting anti-GG and people like Alexander and Anita And yet they are also in contravention of certain fundamental SJ points yet they don't seem to see this and are very happy with the dichotomy that now exists between GG and anti-GG and this rift shouldn't exist if you consider the fact that most people on both sides really the same. They all gamers, developers or other people associated with gaming And yet by playing the sexism and inclusivity card and attacking all white, male gamers and generalizing they forced many people to take sides and feel they had to vociferously support one side or the other And finally who are these people that have become acolytes and or neophytes in this " great struggle for gaming equality " Well they are people like you guys...and who are you really? You just gamers who want to play games and support a beloved hobby and chat on gaming forums. You aren't sexist ....you aren't misogynists. But you are white, male gamers and so what? And yet you have been made to feel like you are part of this historic agenda to discriminate against women. Its not right....they went after easy targets who don't play the SJ game in RL who then sadly played right into there hands with the creation of GG. Ironically GG became exactly what they wanted...something to highlight and vilify as the symbolism of white, male arrogance, resistance and intransigence. Now they have an enemy that even the international media know about, Of course GG hasn't been faultless..the Zoe Quinn incident is deplorable. And the next part you may not like but you guys seem to have some very bad "leaders and spokesmen for GG" People like Milo who just makes things more dramatic and raises tension. He is also manipulating the situation, he also understands the SJ game very well in RL as he has had years to understand how to gain real sympathy due to his sexual orientation and his own trials around how he was subjected to homophobia Suddenly he " is very concerned how gamers are treated" by " an army of sociopathic feminist programmers and campaigners, abetted by achingly politically correct American tech bloggers " ...come on. And many people in GG loved this and immediately supported his position...yet he knows very well how he can gain support from GG by simply taking a certain stand. And he was the one who originally said gamers were " pungent beta male bollock-scratchers and twelve-year-olds' and 'a bit sad" So he is hypocrite, a narcissist and frankly he doens't care how far the rift continues ...as long as some people think he has some relevance and support him for his " honest and shrewd views " he will happily continue to create articles that incite gamers and he will play his fiddle while Rome burns So in summary I stay mostly out of GG and anti-GG because it tainted me for a while and I got distracted from focusing on real SJ in RL

So you want to protect freedom by controlling major private companies? There are a gajillion social media options out there. Twitter will not be at the top forever, and if they make moves that end up making themselves obsolete, they get to hang out with Myspace in the has been pile. Sounds like a win-win. You assume much, chief. I said that Twitter is ****ed in the head for doing this, not that government should control them. Where did you get that silly idea from? My point is that people all over the world where they do not have the freedom to associate and to express themselves are dependent on these platforms, most often american ones since you guys have freedom written into the constitution, and that it is quite troubling, if not very worrysome when companies seems to be hellbent on restricting these very freedoms on the whims of their PR departments. Sure, there are alternatives and new ones will spring up, but i find it a serious issue when this very freedom constantly being pushed around, controlled, and even more serious when people seem to be totally unaware of the consequences of such. Sorry for the belated response but if there are seriously people who would rely on a medium like Twitter for there primary source of information and or direction then unfortunately they would be constantly at a disadvantage as social media is not considered a reliable source of information It was never meant to be that and if you are honest you would realize and accept that So once again to reiterate the point, it makes no substantial difference if Twitter is censored or monitored *sigh* I am surprised you couldn't make a normal response? My points weren't hard to understand ? Everything is clearly answered in the video provided, but as usual you snivel yourself out with non-sequiturs. It doesn't matter what you think about how reliable any social platform is, which is utterly pointless, when the point is that they are the ones that are used whether you like it or not and can be centralized, manipulated or at worst directed, whether you like it or not. OH...okay let me watch it, my bad I assumed it was an annoying joke Oh and the whole " BruceVC you don't ever answer questions " is so " 6 months old BruceVC posting etiquette " Nowadays I try to respond to all questions meaningfully if the person wants to debate in good faith. You are thinking about the old BruceVC from the GG debates where I admitted I had a misunderstanding

Well yes after parties are normal in South Africa, I wasn't having sex with anyone. It was a group of guys and girls, we smoke week, drink alcohol, listen to music and talk **** I like the one girl but I don't know her, I didn't even try to make a move. I will take her out for dinner this week, its just nice to have people around when we are all grieving after the Rugby Oh TN I'm using the edit like you asked, I can see what you meant Oh and I'm surprised but very appreciative that you can see what I was saying. I know I have frustrated you several times in the past where you dont talk to me for a while which is always sad for me because I like your views and find you to be a reasonable person even if we don't always agree So I never really expect you to support me because I know on forums if someone annoys a person that person will just ignore them and typically wont agree with them even they feel they right And also sometimes I just am not sure why people ignore me ....I try to understand but often its a mystery and there are generally a group that always ignores me. But because there are people who generally always respond I tend to focus on that but always enjoy when someone does start talking to me again And I'm not one of those who says things like " I don't care if people dont like me " ...I do care, I want everyone to like me but we have to realistic. Some of my views are considered ...extreme? condescending? incongruous? The point being there will be people who just don't want to engage with me for some reason or the other, its happened at every forum I have ever been on and I feel people have a right to talk to who they want

So you want to protect freedom by controlling major private companies? There are a gajillion social media options out there. Twitter will not be at the top forever, and if they make moves that end up making themselves obsolete, they get to hang out with Myspace in the has been pile. Sounds like a win-win. You assume much, chief. I said that Twitter is ****ed in the head for doing this, not that government should control them. Where did you get that silly idea from? My point is that people all over the world where they do not have the freedom to associate and to express themselves are dependent on these platforms, most often american ones since you guys have freedom written into the constitution, and that it is quite troubling, if not very worrysome when companies seems to be hellbent on restricting these very freedoms on the whims of their PR departments. Sure, there are alternatives and new ones will spring up, but i find it a serious issue when this very freedom constantly being pushed around, controlled, and even more serious when people seem to be totally unaware of the consequences of such. Sorry for the belated response but if there are seriously people who would rely on a medium like Twitter for there primary source of information and or direction then unfortunately they would be constantly at a disadvantage as social media is not considered a reliable source of information It was never meant to be that and if you are honest you would realize and accept that So once again to reiterate the point, it makes no substantial difference if Twitter is censored or monitored *sigh* I am surprised you couldn't make a normal response? My points weren't hard to understand ?

Congratulations, BruceVC, that's the first time you've made me physically cringe. Upping the ante, as always. " physically cringe " ....you make me laugh. Barti our miss our chats I wish you would stop ignoring me, sometimes you say the funniest things...you can be such a drama queen. I don't mind if you only want to insult my posts, I will take whatever interaction you are prepared to offer. You must understand that with all the people I know there are very few people who have your views on certain topics so I like to understand more about what you think about things

Dude there is no doubt you are really weird and really funny....I mean really funny The first time most people will ever talk to you on a forum like this they will think you are some kind of delusional troll...yet you are actually very intelligent and often make valid points and these points are at times ignored because they reveal a stark irrefutable truth that for many people they just can't accept for a number of reasons So classic example of this is how someone will create this post of several detailed and comprehensive criticisms of a game or an aspect of a game, like Qistina in the DA debate...dude you really made me laugh in that discussion , and you will respond with a one or two line disagreement that goes something like " So you hate freedom of expression...you don't accept ideas different to yours. Thats EVIL.....you are guilttty ( and always with your iconic mispelled words and bad grammar ) And as I said you are often right but sometimes you are wrong But I am having an after party now with that lady I met last night and her friends, I showed them your post and they all cracked up with laughter...they think you are a legend. And your post is really funny

That attitude of censoring views that are intransigent and unhelpful to a stable and prosperous society is ironically unhelpful to a stable and prosperous society. Oh you are clever my friend....that may not be true but its definitely worth considering as ultimately it may undermine my utopia society I didn't expect anyone to analyze my post that logically ...you a naughty boy. I am use to people not commenting in these types of exchanges Okay I need to ponder this for a while .... but I promise to reply

Volo in a perfect world where my ideas and views were real I won't lie to you that there would be an element of censorship but this would be purely to remove certain perspectives that are intransigent and unhelpful to a stable and prosperous society You would be banned almost immediately for a 3 month period to give you time to reflect on your nonconstructive comments ...you see I do believe in people finding redemption and changing there ways And I would ban you because you constantly refer to SJW as Nazis and its clear you either have NO clue what the SJ movement is about or you are intentionally being offensive. You do realize the word " Nazi " has serious historical symbolism and it should never be used capriciously And I know everyone on these forums thinks its funny, I also find it funny because its a classic " Volorism " but it has no place in a serious decision. So sorry my friend, and I do like you so its not personal, but you would be definitely censored and have to change your posting etiquette

Yes I see your point but I don't see how it applies to social media like Twitter. Lets take any example, lets say you wanted to learn more about how Syrian refugees are being treated in Hungary...how would you do this? I doubt you would use Twitter and then use comments from Twitter to base your opinion So what is Twitter? Its a completely subjective and unsubstantiated form of communication...so what if they ban certain content. Its shouldn't change meaningful ways to interact or gain input What am I missing that is so serious ?

So you want to protect freedom by controlling major private companies? There are a gajillion social media options out there. Twitter will not be at the top forever, and if they make moves that end up making themselves obsolete, they get to hang out with Myspace in the has been pile. Sounds like a win-win. You assume much, chief. I said that Twitter is ****ed in the head for doing this, not that government should control them. Where did you get that silly idea from? My point is that people all over the world where they do not have the freedom to associate and to express themselves are dependent on these platforms, most often american ones since you guys have freedom written into the constitution, and that it is quite troubling, if not very worrysome when companies seems to be hellbent on restricting these very freedoms on the whims of their PR departments. Sure, there are alternatives and new ones will spring up, but i find it a serious issue when this very freedom constantly being pushed around, controlled, and even more serious when people seem to be totally unaware of the consequences of such. Sorry for the belated response but if there are seriously people who would rely on a medium like Twitter for there primary source of information and or direction then unfortunately they would be constantly at a disadvantage as social media is not considered a reliable source of information It was never meant to be that and if you are honest you would realize and accept that So once again to reiterate the point, it makes no substantial difference if Twitter is censored or monitored