BruceVC

That's what US government was doing, wasn't it? And you're upset that Snowden exposed it. Please correct me if i missed something. What the US government was doing was looking for any pattern of communication between known terrorist groups, individuals and supporters of terrorism. They were not "spying on everybody" despite what Putin, Assange and the free Russian press might be telling you. Yes this is 100% correct, the real damage seems to be from Americans and people on these forums like KP who feel there government betrayed them

Dude even with your strange Netherlands view of politics you can't really think Trump would benefit the USA ? He will take the USA backwards Backwards? In what regard? Oh sorry I assumed you Americans knew about the Dutch ? Everyone knows because they all smoke weed they think there political and social reality is lacking....yet they in the top 5 Happiest Places in the World ...but I suppose Weed does make you happy http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/20/international-happiness-day-happiest-countries/25073055/ Well you realize that Carson is black right, so he's dismissing and alienating himself? Trump's attacks against some women came in response to them attacking him, not out of the blue as some would have you believe. You're likely right about the inability of Republicans to win elections going forward, and we very well may become a one party state, but whites don't vote for Republicans at over 95% the way blacks vote for Democrats, or even at 75% the way Hispanics vote. To pander to those minorities Republicans would simply have to become Democrats, and what would be the point of that? Although some blacks do seem to now realize how much illegal immigration is hurting them. Yes, I'm well aware that the Republicans have candidates that represent all minority groups, also I have heard interviews from certain Republican candidates where they absolutely support and recognize the rights of lets say the Latinos But we need to be realistic and honest, do you think someone like Carson resonates with the average African American? I doubt it But I'm glad you commented on what I said because I dont want to create this impression that I think I know more than actual Americans about there own politics....that would seem very arrogant to me and I like you American members Why I said what I said is because I see the Democrats winning the presidency and to understand this and change the political trajectory the Republicans just need to understand certain social dynamics that are part of the American political reality ...and I think this is sometimes overlooked and yet its not hard to understand. And as a white male there is no reason you can't be happy with these changes ..and of course I want that. I am not one of these SJ people who feels the need to put his own race down. White males are important and very relevant and they should also be comfortable in a political party Also those stats are interesting you posted, they actually support my view and raise an interesting point. I see this in South Africa and other countries where minorities vote. I use to get very frustrated in South Africa by the constant way black South Africans would always vote for the ANC despite all the bad political decisions they made, I would think " well clearly people don't want a better government " but I kept overlooking something. I was assuming that everyone voted the same way I did and they should vote like me because it is logical and I was driven by what was best for the country But when I started actually asking why people voted for the ANC the response was not what I expected " we feel other political parties are racist" now of course other political parties aren't racist but clearly this misperception was real Now lets look at the USA, do you think that the reason African American and Latinos vote Democrat is because they pander to them? No I doubt it, I can guarantee you if you ask them the response will be something like " well the Democrats aren't racist " So now you have a reality to change and the first thing that has to happen is you can't have people like Trump saying " Mexicans are thieves and drug dealers and need to be deported " This type of comment may be dismissed by the Republicans but do you think that the Latino community will forget this? No chance and this will cost them most of the Latino vote You feel as a Republican you can't change this, you can change this if you understand people will vote on perceived views around topics like racism

Yeah, it amazes me because Zora makes these points that people seem to agree with and part of what he sometimes says I agree with but then he makes these anti-Western comments that just seem incongruous " the West is just using Russia " or " Syria is about who gains credit " And I realize his view of the West actually blinds him to some obvious realities No offense Zora but you do tend to do this and it makes your entire perspective questionable if you have a debate with someone who is informed but is trying to be objective I just wish you would share with me where you born and your upbringing, I promise it won't change my view of you

Like i said, America never give a fair deal, but that doesn't mean we no longer have dealings with USA...Presiden Obama just visited Malaysia you know...he come with a treaty, another unfair deal...the TTPA... It is a convenient the president visit us after the incident of MH370 and MH17............we know your game........ calling bs. if deal were so bad, then why were f/a 18 e/f a finalist along with grippen and russian su 30 mkms in malaysia's recent attempt to upgrade air force? malaysia continued to get hornet support from boeing and the us dod in the form o' continued training hardware upgrades. you are being fed bs from your media and naive if you think that the us provided empty hornet shells to malaysia over a decade ago and that malaysia has continued to cooperate with us to upgrade, maintain, and train pilots for those hornets... as well as making new hornets a finalist for their recent fighter aircraft upgrade. nonsense. all o' which is so utterly irrelevant to what is going on in paris and the middle east and africa. aside, we agree with bruce and others that focus on paris is unfortunate but understandable. we personal were annoyed when the charlie hebdo stuff were occupying headlines when at similar time an entire town in northern nigeria were razed by boko haram. we complained 'bout the lack o' sympathy for the folks o' baga on these boards (http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/66161-boko-haram-and-the-kidnpping-of-the-school-girls/?p=1556307) nigeria claims that 150 people were killed and and thousands displaced (as opposed to the estimates o' anywhere from 1000 to 2000 fatalities from more objective sources). baga shoulda' garnered more attention. unfortunately, news o' violence in the middle east and africa is so common that it westerners rare pay attention to such stuff. have a story that only 150 people died in africa and middle east in 2015 due to sectarian violence and THAT would be a story. is terrible, but we expect violence and bloodshed in the middle east. is not news if is ordinary? maybe. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir why do feel the need to debate like this with Qistina ? You can't really feel the need to win this debate and it should be obvious that there is a language translation problem and lack of overall insight on certain matters,,,,this is not Zora you are debating with, with him you always have to win

Dude even with your strange Netherlands view of politics you can't really think Trump would benefit the USA ? He will take the USA backwards

Thinking pyramids were granaries is demonstrably wrong for two reasons- they indeed only have small empty spaces, and they can only have small empty places. As the 'bent' pyramid shows they didn't have much engineering wiggle room for the empty, massive chambers a granary would necessitate. The other bizarre assertion was that Joseph built them. I can only imagine how he'd respond if anyone suggested the (actually quite plausible) theory that Judaism and hence Christianity were descended from Egyptian Atenism, albeit around a thousand years after the pyramids were built. The odd bizarre belief doesn't really mean you wouldn't be a good president, though sticking with a bizarre belief in the light of proof to the contrary might. And at least it's a harmless belief. Thanks for the concern Zora, I know how much you care about the political stability of the USA But you musnt worry, Carson wont be the Republican candidate. I am hoping someone like Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush or Rand Paul gets through because they are really articulate and highly intelligent and I can relate to that

Well, i don't know if the West wants him gone or not, but to me it seems most likely that what happened in Ukraine will happen in Russia. People are tired (or getting tired) of constant fear mongering and of corruption, especially the younger generation is not interested in opposing West at all. Quite the contrary really, people want to be a part of it. So in case of revolution, i don't really see any radicals coming to power. Just to give you an example, the biggest opposition leader, Navalny, who is very much pro-West, got 30% on mayoral election in Moscow in 2013. And that's without any access to TV or press or anything like that, with government actively trying to stop him, just through his own efforts and with the help of thousands of volunteers. So yeah, most people just want to live their live peacefully in a country they can be proud of. Another interesting post....yes we want a pro-Western political party in Russia because I promise there is no reason for Russia and the West to have friction. The Cold War is over long ago and people do respect Russia and believe it has a very significant role to play But this strange anti-Western sentiment that seems to come from Putin causes unnecessary tension

Yes this is something that I have dealing with in South Africa over the last 2 days People try to dismiss all this global attention and say things like " why doesn't the media care about bomb blasts that happened in Kenya,Yemen or Lebanon" In South Africa most people don't even really know about Yemen or the Lebanon bomb blast and they only say this because they want to " highlight inconsistent media attention from the West " But its very easy to dispute, I could say numerous things like Well please don't let anyone influence who you should be concerned for ...this is a personal choice The ME has about 8 wars and conflicts on-going at the moment and there are weekly examples of bomb blasts...so you can protest this any day of the week,,,this is about France The attack on France is obviously going to get more attention because France is a super power actively involved in combating extremism...what France decides or doesn't decide can influence the entire ISIS reality because France could send ground troops into Syria

Can you produce any link to support your view that the West wants Putin gone What many people believe is if Putin goes there is no guarantee that there will be suddenly be a new preferable Russian president who is pro-Western The West has no control of who the Russians will vote for if Putin had to go so I don't buy this view that " the West wants Putin gone "

Leferd please tell me you at least are excited about Hilary Clinton..I am worried how no one on this forun seems to like or support her ? It is probably because her best quality is one that many people at least publicly dislike. She is full blooded career politicians that bases her agenda to what she thinks public wants and she relies heavily on experts and other interested parties to form her answers and solutions instead of her own personal thinking, which make her look a person that is cold and who don't have solid foundation to her beliefs. Although when you add her understanding of law, political process of making laws and quite long experience of foreign politics to her ability to be "sock puppet", then she makes a excellent candidate for president, especially if you are liberal conservative. But as said she appearance may give cold and calculating expression to people, meaning that her personal charisma, which is for some people much important persons efficiency in job, may cause them seek some other candidate. Of course Hillary isn't best candidate for people that seek change in how politics are played in USA. For those Sanders is much better option if they want USA to take more socialistic approach, and for those who seek something else republican candidates may be only options. Okay guys thanks for explaining, I get your concern Its funny how I'm sure all three of us have very similar views on politics yet we differ on Hilary, I don't see her as false but of course there is always an element of how all politicians pander to certain political views..this is normal to me

Obviously this has to be it http://40.media.tumblr.com/c7180c2fdd0cda2a714b87714b631e74/tumblr_nxd59lv4x31sr8zk0o1_1280.jpg I mean, I cant take any conspiracy theory seriously... I've been dining with some FM, mayors and COEs of local bank branches I've been a senior manager in a multinational global corporation, now I am working for a certain investment bank, and I can assure you there are no supernational secret groups. It's just simple money and politics behind the scenes, yes, but no Illuminati or w/e you call things that are good for James Bond movies. I am sure that those guys got money from the trade of oil on black market, they get weapons from various criminal organizations from former USSR republics AND their sympathizers in the Middle East (looking at you Saudi Arabia) They eat things they take from the localt population. do you think those areas are desolate and without any local populations? They have slave work force, they take around 9/10 of what people under their rule produce (those peopel who only live in their lands and did not join the ranks of ISIS) as for oil, they take it from the instalations that they captured... a lot of vehicles were captured form ineffective Iraqi forces and Syrian bases. Darkpriest I'm sorry to ask you this again but where are you from again and where do you live now? I'll take my liberty of not telling that much, probably said too much already about myself, btw. i edited a part of sentence because technically i should not have added one international economic conference as a regular thing. I have no Facebook and social media accounts, i guess i got a bit carried away here, but what's done is done. I am from CEE and after last 8 years of working in various countries including West EU, Scandinavia, USA and Canada I am back to CEE Thanks for answering, I completely understand why some people don't like sharing certain details because then people make assumptions around there view " oh he is from Bulgaria...no wonder he like Communism " But I only ask because we have had some good chats yet we disagree on some things and I just want to understand your background

Obviously this has to be it http://40.media.tumblr.com/c7180c2fdd0cda2a714b87714b631e74/tumblr_nxd59lv4x31sr8zk0o1_1280.jpg I mean, I cant take any conspiracy theory seriously... I've been dining with PMs and some FMs and COEs of local bank branches, I've been a senior manager in a multinational global corporation, now I am working for a certain investment bank, and I can assure you there are no supernational secret groups. It's just simple money and politics behind the scenes, yes, but no Illuminati or w/e you call things that are good for James Bond movies. I am sure that those guys got money from the trade of oil on black market, they get weapons from various criminal organizations from former USSR republics AND their sympathizers in the Middle East (looking at you Saudi Arabia) They eat things they take from the localt population. do you think those areas are desolate and without any local populations? They have slave work force, they take around 9/10 of what people under their rule produce (those peopel who only live in their lands and did not join the ranks of ISIS) as for oil, they take it from the instalations that they captured... a lot of vehicles were captured form ineffective Iraqi forces and Syrian bases. Darkpriest I'm sorry to ask you this again but where are you from again and where do you live now?

Leferd please tell me you at least are excited about Hilary Clinton..I am worried how no one on this forun seems to like or support her ?

Don't feel guilty, I would say this is normal because the reality is the Democrats have there candidate and they dont seem to differ on major issues. so I find the Republican discussions more entertaining

This is not true AT ALL. These numbers are 100% phoney. Not to say that there aren't people like this, but they're not that common at all. Like for example whenever they do a pro-government rally, they actually have to force people to come, like students and government workers. Most people, like everywhere else i imagine, don't care one way or another. And there's a pretty significant portion (around 30% i guess) that actually hate Putin and what he had done with Russia. In fact, with the way things are right now, i'd say revolution, just like it was in Ukraine, is very much a possibility in the next 5-10 years. Thats interesting, we get told he is very popular and everyone thinks he is great You see your view is not common from Russians generally so once again thanks for sharing

But you do understand that when Carson asked about the purpose of big empty chambers in pyramids he got "we are not sure" answer? You call that a statement that should change his theory? You do understand that we don't have full understanding of building technique and full purpose of pyramids. We have purpose for one part of pyramids - storing dead pharaons, but what about the rest of the building? Your F-35 example is not applicable because F-35 could never be used as a submarine, but pyramids ARE capable by it's design and properties to be used as a storage for keeping food fresh? So the scientists have a theory and Carson have a theory. The problem is when you don't agree with scientists theory some dumb, unintelligent people will call you "clinically insane", even though you theory have the same probability of being true. It's like Islam and Pastafarians. They both have stupid story about a their god, but people tend to laugh at Pastafarians but not Muslims. So I would give Carson a pass with his theory about pyramids granary. Sorry, but usage of the pyramids as a granary is about as practical as usage of the F-35 as a submarine. You can store grain in a pyramid just as you can sit in a F-35 underwater but both of them are extremely impractical. I mean, a pyramid is a veritable mountain out of rock. The are narrow passageways inside it, and burial chambers which are tiny compared to the size of the pyramid. There are no "big empty chambers", that's a complete delusion right there. As far as we know, all of the chambers are either meant as traps, or were burial chambers. This leaves nothing to account for. Or are you saying that somebody built these massive pyramids with their tiny chambers for grain storage, only for later pharaons to use it as a tomb instead? Why the heck would someone build a pyramid to store grain when they could have just built a small house to store the same volume? Anyways, this discussion is getting more retarded by the minute. You might as well give me a pass on my theory about the F-35 being a submarine, since this has not been disproven thus far. Guys I share Ros concern about Carson....from an outsiders perspective he has made some strange intellectual comments But like Trump I doubt he will get to the end, Republican supporters need to realize that anyone who becomes the candidate will be facing a very confident and popular Democrat candidate in Hilary Clinton I see the Republican candidates constantly dismiss her as " irrelevant " but unless I am missing something once again I see the Democrats as having the real advantage here in Clinton. It seems to me that despite the last two elections the Republicans like Trump and Carson haven't realized that you really shouldnt dismiss and alienate minority groups. This includes not just the African American and Latino vote but the vote of women..and its the female vote that carries the most influence in the minority space and I'm sorry guys the Republicans still need to do more work to not appear to be condescending towards women and yes this is due to Trump and his comments about women In fact I will make a comment that I don't believe in the USA you will ever see another president from any political party if they dismiss minority groups. This next election will confirm this Finally I want to add something important, I know many of you guys who support the Republicans are white, males like me and maybe you are looking at the current outcomes of the last two elections and feel frustrated because you think " how is it possible where in a country where white people are the most dominant group that we can't win an election and it seems like the media, liberals or SJ groups have somehow created a voting environment where people dont vote on real issues anymore and will vote for the Democrats because they get told the Democrats are more progressive and offer promises on so called economic equality but at the expense of people who actually work" Maybe you feel somehow marginalized as white males and your views aren't considered important anymore...maybe none of you feel this way but I want to say this anyway, Voting for the Democrats is not in anyway an attack or a suggestion that white males are irrelevant or not a critical part of the USA...this will always be a fact. A vote for the Democrats is simply where you believe in a more equitable US society where the federal government has a right to intervene in the affairs of the states in some cases But this will not be abused, for example some things have to be driven from the Federal government because of the reality where some states just take too long to make certain choices, like the Gay Marriage Bill

Interesting. And how exactly the west is planning to remove him? Assassination? Nah, making life so hard for regular russians, due to various embargos, that they would remove him from power themselves. Well, as a russian, i can only thank the west for that. They're doing something useful for a change. Can't wait when he's finally gone. No the West doesnt want to remove Putin, they are just looking for more reasonable political choices from Russia like not thinking they can just carve up Ukraine .....but I have enjoyed your view. I dont often get to chat to Russians, Fighter has provided me with some good insights but he doesn't always comment and I always enjoy understanding what the views are of actual Russian citizens Also Dark and Mam War I also want to thank you for explaining your views in detail because its the same thing where I don't know much about what Eastern Europeans think about the West And guys its not about us agreeing necessarily, this is a debate and we all have our own views but you have given me some new insights. Like the view of Slovakia towards the West

Interesting. And how exactly the west is planning to remove him? Assassination? Guys we really have to be careful when we say " the West wants to remove Putin " ....yes Drowsy thinks its true but how arrogant do you think the West is? Putin has an 80 % approval rating. The average Russian has real respect for what they see Putin has done for Russian pride In my opinion I think Putin has made some really good choices at restoring Russian pride but nowadays he has become very extremist around his distrust of what motivates the West. This has lead to the real slowdown in the Russian economy but its not because of the Western sanctions, they have had an influence but its more because Russia did not do enough work at diversifying its economy. Putin assumed like Venezuela and Iran that the oil price would always sit at a certain price, Russia needs the oil price to be at $100 http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/20/opec-russia-idUSL6N0TA16P20141120#eYBGiYEMhAghWsWt.97 Now this miscalculation is a serious economic blunder and I'm not sure if the average Russian citizen realizes that the issue with there economy is caused primarily by this and not by the Western sanctions.This mistake is really on Putin. Despite what you guys think the West doesnt assume that somehow the Russian people are going to " vote Putin " out, once again you guys make assumptions about the general ignorance of what the West thinks sanctions will achieve The expected outcome from sanctions is generally not regime change but rather where a country on its own changes certain political choices because of the negative impact the sanctions have on the economy, sanctions work but they take time But as I mentioned Russia real issue is not the sanctions Now Dark back to your general post, it makes no sense to me? Its illogical as the West doesn't need Russia for joint security and there is no way they will drop Eastern Ukraine for security in Syria? Do you have a link

Okay so here is the interesting thing about your prediction, its actually much harder to predict than you may think Why do I say that? The Arab Spring would have still happened but Saddam would have still been President in Iraq...he would have used force on any opposing political movements but the political uprisings in Syria and Libya would still have happened and yes I agree that ISIS wouldnt be as effective or in its current form as we can't say with certainty that the Iraq Sunnis would have joined ISIS But important lessons have been learnt from both Iraq and Libya. The West can assist militarily to overthrow a dictator but preferably not with ground troops and there must be a clear understanding or agreement that the West cannot be blamed for governments that fail, yes the West can assist with guidance around political decisions but this must be seen as something that is asked for and not just imposed. So in Libya the West provided air support but it was the Libyan rebels who did the hard fighting and were the ones that executed Gadafi. The new Libyan government didnt want the West interfering in there new government and the West really didn't want to get involved on that level So they left the country in the hands of new Libyan government ...yes sadly this failed for a number of reasons but I would assume mostly due to inexperience in understanding how to run a country but also due to the expectations of certain Libyan tribes who now had free reign. I don't blame the West for this? Why would you

I was there, and loved that there was nowhere any garbage lying around. I seriously wish, that something like that, would be enforced in my country and in many EU countries, which I've visited as well... Do these count? Defeated the Nazis and Imperial Japan --> Germany and Japan became modern liberal democracies and allies. Defended South Korea from Communism --> South Korea became a modern liberal democracy and ally. (Look at North Korea to get an impression of what it would have otherwise become.) Deterred China from invading Taiwan --> Taiwan became a modern liberal democracy and ally. Put a stop to Soviet expansionism and supported democracy/freedom movements in the Eastern Block --> The Soviet Union is gone and countries like Poland and the Czech Republic have become modern liberal democracies and allies. I am from Slovakia. You have absolutely no clue what happened in 1989, so please don't try to teach me how the allmighty west saved me from Soviet oppresion... I consider myself as an proud European, but I am not blind to how corrupt is power in today's West, as much as my family were not blind how corrupted was power in Soviet Union. My family was forced to move by our government across Czechoslovakia because of their religion. My grand dad ended up in jail, because he did not wanted to convert himself to orthodox christianty, which was only allowed reliogion here at that time. It took 18 years to rebuild Slovakia after 1989 so that the people would get the same real income as they had in 80s. In 2015 the real average income in Slovakia is 13% above real income in 1989. But 57% of the population never had income at the level of average income. So statisticaly approximately 40% of our people have worse living standard than they had during period of Communism in 80's. So please excuse these people if they do not give a single flying **** about how all mighty west helped them to embrace the democracy. That being said. The 1989 coup in Czechoslovakia was executed by the technocratic communists who were fed up with the unability of the communist party to engage more into "free trade". The idea about the coup was nice, but in the coming 26 years, Slovakia has became the most corrupt country in the European Union and is currently being controlled by 5 people. Mr. Siroky, Mr. Hascak, Mr. Brhel, Mr. Vyboh and Mr. Tkac. These 5 people became multi billionaiers with the help of Slovak government in the last 26 years by actively promoting corruption and funneling the Eurofunds into their Cyprus and Belize accounts through various off-shore companies which are chosen without real competition to win state tenders. No one in the west gives a **** that these 5 people are stealing their money from their own taxes. All they care about, is getting cut costs for their companies so they can enjoy our cheap labour and not need to employ much costlier German, French, British labour. So once again, please excuse all those people having in 21st century in European Union monthly income at the level around 500 EUR to give a single flying **** about how you "perfect" westerner brought them democracy. Thank you. Mam I'm glad you made this post but I think you are being a little critical towards Ineth...you asked me a question and he answered ...and now you don't like his answer But if you had made this post before you asked that question it would definitely have changed how I would have responded to you because it adds important context about why you have certain issues with the West..and I understand now why you do indeed question what the West does...but I need to explain a few things to you The West wasn't the reason that the USSR ultimately collapsed...the USSR was basically bankrupt and many people in the USSR came to the conclusion that Communism wasnt a sustainable ideology. What at the end had beaten the USSR and Red China IMO wasn't necessarily a view that Western culture, military might or superior Western leaders were assumed to be better. it wasnt the fact that in the West people elected there leaders or had free press...it was the irrefutable fact that the free economic market is superior to one where a government tries to drive the economic growth. So the USSR could NEVER match the economic innovation or natural growth of the free market that exists in the West Now in the case of countries like Slovakia I can completely understand your frustration because I see similar views in my own country where certain people are very unhappy about the state of the economic transformation and now question the success of our Democracy. The thing about the free market is it has be driven by people and the ideas need to make sense and really be able to show profitability....and this isnt as easy as people may assume. I can also understand why this could have been very difficult for many Slovakian citizens to understand and just automatically adopt but to be fair no one ever said that Western ideology would always work. It needs to be implemented in a certain way with realistic expectations And to be honest, and you asked for brutal honesty but I think country your faces a much more difficult economic challenge. My aunt was married to a Czech man and all my cousins speak Czech and understand Czech culture and go to Czech once a year to see there gran, so I was acutley aware that Slovakia was its own country. But I'm sure the majority of people in places like the USA probably wouldn't be aware of that, most people outside of the EU probably don't know that. But the fault isn't there's if we are honest, its not because people are being dismissive or malicious. Its really about the fact Slovakia needs to be able to distinguish itself economically....I'll be very honest I know very little about Slovakia And yes the Free Market\Capitalism doesn't have a automatic way of addressing this as it expects countries to always have ideas..but it won't remind or even ask. So what is Slovakia good at? Skilled but cheap labour ...thats a dogs game and becomes very difficult to be competitive when you have the likes of India who have become the worlds largest exporter of qualified but cheap skills. So you should find a product or series of business services that can successfully exported around the EU?

No my dear what you just posted may seem reasonable but its not accurate and I'll explain why.....by the way many people have your view on UN For the UN to send troops to a place like Syria or any conflict there has to be no Veto, which is a vote, from the 5 permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. So for example if even one of the following countries USA, UK, France , China or Russia say No then this automatically means No for the whole possible UN military intervention What happened in the Syrian conflict in the beginning is there was disagreement on who was in the wrong. Russia and others supported Assad while most of the West felt Assad was a brutal dictator who has quite prepared to commit his own military to annihilate his own people just to stay in power or not implement any political reform ...I share this view So the UN could never had a successful vote because the permanent members had a fundamental different view on who a UN military force would be supporting if they went into Syria ISIS are not Syrians, they are from all the world who joined them, the same with FSA and Al Qaeda. In fact ISIS was FSA and Al Qaeda, they combined becoming ISIS. They only appear after USA attack Iraq and leave. ISIS are not Iraqis either. They are deuchbags, criminals, rapists, robbers, murderers and what not. You see, when USA attack Iraq, just imagine how many getting out from local prisons? And how many Muslim criminals running away from their countries to join them? These islamists groups giving refuge, that's why they are brutal, have no humanity, insane...they are also take drugs... You know, i was about to be recruited by Al Qaeda, i speak the truth, they use internet, they want Asian Muslim women to join them, well you know why...but i am not a fool...i was active on You Tube back then, i play along, getting into their webs, i know how they recruit Muslims especially women...i don't want to expose all here but i can say for Muslim women they can be charming fellows with sweet talks...then they will introduce us into their hive group of sisters...these sisters act like fantasy sisters, because real sisters are not like them...they will take care, listen to our problems, and on and on...the guys will act like they are most religious Muslim ever and giving advices...suffice to say they give an escape for a Muslim girl to go out from this cruel world we are living in...then they slowly inducing their twisted ideology....they will look on us if we can be lured further into their ring or not...i tell you, they will hunt us if we back off...they know our numbers, know we live, they even interfere with our social life...but i manage to get away...and i save some sisters... Anyway, as i mentioned it is not a simple matter, ISIS and such groups are the physical ones, they are armed group, but what more dangerous is their ideology, and this infiltrating the religion, even effecting scholars...the key person in ISIS and such group are of course mercenaries, but the ones who become their cows and sheeps are gullible Muslims...no Muslims will joined them if not because of being indoctrinated by their ideology...you may think you know evgerything about them, you don't, ISIS is just one branch of hooligans, but the most dangerous thing is these twisted ideologies they spread through spies and through what i reveal above... There are groups not armed but carrying this ideology, and they appear like non-offesive, but their goal is to overthrow governments, they need the people of any governments overthrow their own governments, then groups like ISIS will come in and do the rest of things. That what happen in Libya, Syria and the rest....Who want to overthrow governments really? Ask yourself who gain from all these? Not ISIS, not Al Qaeda, not any Muslim Terrorists, not even Muslims gain any profit out of this.... That question answering the question of why UN silence all these time..... Oh no....you cannot possibly think the West is behind ISIS ....please tell me you dont think that?

No why would you think that? ISIS are a barbaric and brutal organisation that need to be destroyed in both Mosul and Raqqa...I don't know anyone who is at least slightly informed that doesn't think ISIS has committed reprehensible acts

No my dear what you just posted may seem reasonable but its not accurate and I'll explain why.....by the way many people have your view on UN For the UN to send troops to a place like Syria or any conflict there has to be no Veto, which is a vote, from the 5 permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. So for example if even one of the following countries USA, UK, France , China or Russia say No then this automatically means No for the whole possible UN military intervention What happened in the Syrian conflict in the beginning is there was disagreement on who was in the wrong. Russia and others supported Assad while most of the West felt Assad was a brutal dictator who has quite prepared to commit his own military to annihilate his own people just to stay in power or not implement any political reform ...I share this view So the UN could never had a successful vote because the permanent members had a fundamental different view on who a UN military force would be supporting if they went into Syria

No I was talking to someone else about your opinion and unless there is a forum rule about this I will continue. You make very serious points about Muslims and you ignore my questions to you, thats fine but now you wonder why I make assumptions about your views. My advice is try to be a little more mature about a debate, try to respond when people ask you a question and then you won't find people misunderstanding you

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it. Before you continue please understand Drowsy is Serbian and is much more critical of Muslims than most people as Serbia has had its own chaotic and badly handled experiences with Muslims So you can't expect him to really support Muslim refugees or support the idea of Muslims being militant in parts of the world as to be fair to Serbia historically they have been treated quite badly by Muslim powers, like the Ottomans so he just sees the negative