BruceVC

Seriously, stop. At this point it's abundantly clear you aren't even remotely interested in facts, not even those from the sources you provide yourself: IBTimes: The Newsweek piece: The article also discusses harsher measures by Canada and Australia but that doesn't matter because they aren't Yurop. It also mentions the cluster**** that is the EU due to having a million different laws, security services and watchlists. Nothing new here. The only fact-based argument remotely resembling the picture you've been painting is with the "Aarhus approach", but that's a) in Denmark, not Netherlands and b) only for people who haven't committed crimes, as per the IBTimes link which you obviously didn't bother reading completely. Yeah, enforcing laws is usually a priority of governments. At least with the small fish and blue-collar criminals. Besides, the guy in Netherlands has been released, even though he has to report to the judge weekly and cannot leave the country. You blew this out of proportion to make it a sort of cultural priority across all of Europe, which is ridiculous. The key-words in those articles is that there's a lot "will, should've, could've"-s, but when it is someone fighting against ISIS there's suddenly the time and resources available for an investigation. Sorry, but my point still stands, when someone is fighting against these people compared to the security threat of ISIS-fighters possibly returning through legal or illegal means to your country, you better have your priorities straight. Instead we all the same kind of people falling over themselves (hellooo media) on how to forgive and integrate when it is the different kind fighters. "But hey, at least you've made me waste a good 30 minutes on your links (bonus points for including some behind a paywall) and writing the reply, and it's not the first time. That was the goal, wasn't it?" You know better than to lie about such matters, it's never wasted time to try argue about someone else being wrong on the Internet @ 2133 Meshugger isn't trying to waste your time, I know sometimes it may seem like he is debating a view very different to yours but I don't think he is trolling ( well thats how I see you Meshugger...I would be shocked if you were trolling about this topic ) I dont people who chose to leave a country and go to fight for ISIS should be allowed back ?

Can I ask you a question, aren't you concerned about the numerous concerning comments Trump has made about USA foreign policy and he would do things?

That's not how it works around here my friend. You have to tell us what YOU think of Donald Trump...... Then we flame you! and we do enjoy a good flaming

He is a demagogue and even though I can recognize his skill in industry and business acumen he also represents the worst aspects of Capitalism He is arrogant, dismissive. bombastic and has very little regard for the consequences of his words or views. He will be a terrible president for the USA because he will drag the USA back to an era of the " you either with us or against us " Most of the problems the global community grapples can be resolved through dialogue and following tried and tested examples of Western ideology....this means free markets, democracies and a respect for human rights The USA has a very important role as one of the foundations of Western ideology and Trump will just take the West backwards if he becomes president for 4 years So I support the Democrat view on the way the USA should influence global events...not Trumps " lets just build a wall " comments

Are we talking about Finland or Netherlands now? Are you aware that different countries have different laws? You tell me how many native European IS fighters have returned to their respective countries and are living the high life off the teat of the gov't instead of facing prosecution, since it's you making that claim. Perhaps if you have concrete evidence that Finns have been indeed fighting with IS you should contact the Finnish police. Evidence, mate. Not "speculation". edit: "contintents", lol Nobody knows for sure how many have returned. There's only estimates by various national security agencies on how many have left, which is about 7500 at the moment. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32026985 http://uk.businessinsider.com/700-germans-are-fighting-for-isis-and-the-number-of-women-joining-keeps-growing-2015-6?r=US&IR=T The finnish authorities estimate that 100 have left and a handful has returned and are monitored for the time being. Anyhow, that wasn't the point that is was making, it was about the leniency people in politics and media have about these people, and choosing what values to endorse and to prioritize: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/denmark-isis-fighters-warmly-welcome-home-by-psychiatrists-1470546 http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.676/sweden-to-reward-returning-isis-jihadists.html http://europe.newsweek.com/returning-isis-fighters-forgiveness-or-punishment-294497?rm=eu A sane human being wouldn't opening cases on people fighting against ISIS as a top priority. Your links only mention about 1400 people from Germany and the UK had possibly joined ISIS The 7500 number is for the number of German people who sympathize with ISIS, yes people joining ISIS is an issue and that is something we need to be concerned about but we need to keep this in perspective

That cartoon made me laugh

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-comes-cold-nuclear-deal-applied-062746897.html;_ylt=AwrBT7uPS5tWyWwAG4VXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTByMjB0aG5zBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzYw-- So the punishing sanctions against Iran have been lifted, I think this is a victory for the power of negotiations. It allows Iran to become part of the economic global community. I feel that the last decade has proved that economic sanctions can have real and meaningful impact...so in most cases we don't need to threaten countries with military force just let sanctions follow there natural course This is my view that will get Russia to change course in Ukraine, let the sanctions continue. Putin will hopefully realize a broken economy is not worth the effort for interference in places like Ukraine Also with the Iranians coming back to the global economy they will be pumping even more oil to the international market so those like me who prefer cheaper oil support this as this will only add to the oversupply and keep oil prices low. I also think an inclusive Iran will make the ME more stable as the Iranians will take there Shia influence more seriously as they now are back in the global world ...and no one likes criticism of policy from members of the UN...if you claim you want to be part of that global world You should also have seen that we have had a landmark exchange of USA prisoners for Iranian prisoners ...would this ever have happened if the sanctions hadn't been lifted? http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/16/middleeast/iran-jason-rezaian-prisoners-freed/index.html Netanyahu seems to be really upset but this is to be expected. Also its a good thing to have the Israeli's also monitoring if the Iranians are adhering to the agreements that the likes of the IAEA insisted need to be part of the overall negotiations I think the likes of John Kerry and Mohammad Javad Zarif, the Iranian foreign minister, need to be congratulated for there hard work and diligence

Barti when you do get your wisdom teeth removed you will almost immediately feel more stupid, start reading something like the Encyclopedia Britannica or maybe watch something like CNN for days to help with the recovery of what you lost

Do you cheat on your tax? Is the USA strict on checking taxes are legitimate

Hi Gromnir "waves " I'm glad you are back, I have missed your insight. Why would you feel tired after a holiday? why indeed. jet lag? old age? HA! Good Fun! Yes, jet lag sux When I fly to the USA from SA it can take 20 hours ....its a loooooooooooong time in a plane

Hi Gromnir "waves " I'm glad you are back, I have missed your insight. Why would you feel tired after a holiday?

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you Updated my Bruce.txt //Edit: Not many bankers were jailed for their involvement in the 2008 crisis, just saying. Yes it wasn't because of 2008 specifically, it was things that went on before that but 2008 was a build-up of events that probably took about 5-6 years of bad banking decisions by many people in the industry

But Woldan no one likes casualties especially if the war is not absolutely justified

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you Updated my Bruce.txt We feel as a family that inside trading and irregular trading is a choice ...you can be a banker without breaking the law.In fact its a moral imperative that we distance ourselves from it because of all the bad decisions bankers have made since 1995 and the collapse of Barings Bank My grandfather, not the original founder, is old school like that ...he set a very important value system. He is now 92 and still alive but he has Alzheimers. He was with us at Xmas ..he has moments of clarity and he tells me things about shares and investment avenues, he remembers WW2 and he really has had a great life Anyway in summary my Dads cousin, who is also called Bruce, use to really annoy me when he lived in SA He was one of those typical traders who constantly felt the need to be overly generous...he would tip 1000 % in a restaurant and insisted on always paying. He drove a Ferrari and would always tease me when he saw me about " how could I not get into finance ( I work with financial software ) and I would never make the money he could make for me ". The guy wasn't malicious but just very, very brilliant at his job..but also arrogant Anyway when he was arrested in the USA my grandfather was unequivocal...we don't support what he did, we love him but he is on his own

Drowsy despite what you may think about what motivates me I don't think Serbia or Serbs are criminals or are the only guilty party in the whole Bosnia and Kosvo conflict. Until Sarex said one day that he thinks most of the world has a negative view of Serbs I never had any negative view of Serbia and I still don't. I don't understand the history of the whole Yugoslavia animosity and I still dont understand why it appears the various ex-Yugoslav countries resent each other You should know that what white people did, and I am a part of that indirectly, in South African during Apartheid was much worse than any perceived human rights abuses Serbia may or may not have committed so I am not trying to embarrass you and I definitely dont think I am better than you so sorry for any misunderstandings about this But I don't want to fight with you about this, I just want to ask you one question. You said you are 28 so how would you have remembered details about the war in 1992 if you were 5? The reason I raise this is dont you think its possible what people told you about the conflict may not be necessarily true or perhaps a little biased? Naturally I don't remember much of it. But since it colored everything that happened so many years later its inevitable that one learns about it. Besides, I have an interest in history and politics so I read up on it. People can be biased either way, I don't really put much stock in anecdotal evidence. But saying that there was an ethnic cleansing in Croatia in not anecdotal. That's not based on hearsay, just on the fact that 150 to 200 thousand people were displaced by force (or fled fearing death). Those people were later registered in Serbia and, naturally, records of the places where they were born and lived (Croatia) exist. Those are the sort of indisputable facts that are worth using in a discussion. As for the refugees, many did emigrate across Europe, if they had a way to get past the administrative hoops, but there was nothing like the current media and political support for them - just like there wasn't much mention of the Ukrainian refugees recently (which are quite numerous). Okay well I'm glad we had this chat because when you and Sarex both felt I was trolling you guys of course it bothered me because all I really was trying to say was " its okay to admit we have had histories around our countries " And yet I clearly never made my point in that way....and you have to understand for me I see what Apartheid has done and how as a white person I am basically unaffected. But my intention was never to sound like I was judging your country, I respect the fact you are proud of Serbia. I think its important to be patriotic and we may disagree on topics like NATO and the West but thats not a personal attack on you. End of day you and I have more in common than you realize...I want an EU that incorporates Serbia and is an example of economic success and political stability and is on very good terms with Russia which will always be its own empire, I just feel Serbia should align with the EU You see the real potential enemy to my vision is not USA\Russian tension or Capitalism its groups like ISIS which really would happily destroy everything ...and I mean that...that we consider sacred. You cannot reason or negotiate with that type of extremism. It really seems silly for us to debate over Ukraine when we have much more pressing concerns

I really don't like the usage of the word rich...nowadays its not cool to be seen as " rich" in a country where there is such poverty But I cannot deny certain things, yes my family come from generations of bankers. My great grandfather came back from WW1 where his twin brother died in the Somme, we take WW1 very seriously But he then started a financial company and he created the initial investment firms. And yes my family have always been involved in banking, trading and similar industries. But we were always taught not to be ostentatious, you never flaunt your money and most money is invested in property and trust funds I am telling you this because I feel I cannot have a discussion about Capitalism if I'm not being honest about my own reality. I am not trying to boast. All of my family including me studied and worked hard to get to where we are, its not like we were given anything for free which is why I don't like generalizations about bankers and traders being corrupt or having no morals. My Dads cousin was even jailed in the USA for being part of the whole 2005-2008 financial crisis And yes I feel a sense of guilt which I can't help living in South Africa...but what can I do more than I already do? Anyway I won't bring this up again, I just wanted to explain my view to you

Amentep you are reasonable person who normally explains things in way that makes sense to me Do you think Nonek is ignoring me and don't you think ignoring someone on a forum due to an argument over something like GG is silly?

KP maybe I never mentioned this before to you but one of the reasons I seem to be concerned about your negative view of corporations is not because I think you uninformed its motivated more by the fact I spend a fair amount of time defending the positive aspects of Capitalism and how the USA isn't this corrupt, belligerent economic bully and in fact the USA and the impact of the free market does far more good than bad. You see there are many people who have a negative view of the USA and in my own country we are debating the future of how we should structure our economy to allow many black South Africans to be part of the economy. I have to debate with people who represent bygone and archaic systems of government which have been proven to have failed....like real Communists ...no joke I know it probably seems like I push a certain agenda and I do because I have traveled through Africa and I cannot tell you how depressing it is to see the levels of real poverty in some countries ...I am talking about African countries where the local people have NEVER known anything but grinding poverty for generations. And its not that African people are stupid or dont know how to run countries, its because they have had leaders who just don't care about being good leaders And of course my ancestors come from the UK so we are also responsible for Colonialism but the UK handed back there Colonies in the early 1960's and they were all working and in a good state unlike the Portuguese who basically destroyed there colonies after deciding to engage in pointless civil wars And something else I have realized, black South Africans despite 50 years of the most inhuman and appalling system of Apartheid actually have been very forgiving and reasonable to white South Africans. And I also now know just what Apartheid did to the psyche and confidence to many black South Africans...so you can imagine its not very nice to realize what your family or relatives were part of during Apartheid So I then come to these forums after positioning the advantages of the free market and having hours of debates and I find you basically attacking Capitalism...and you live in the USA. And of course you are entitled to your opinion but it frustrates me because I am not picking on you because of your age but rather when you complain about the USA and how bad you think things are I wonder " do you realize how lucky you are " But anyway its unfair of me to expect you to understand just how terrible the lives are of some African people are...I just want to explain why I sometimes seem to question why you say you don't like the USA

Wow, this is a very interesting list and many things I do agree with. I need to go through it in detail...this is a good way of choosing a candidate

But what do you think Sanders can or will do that you like, I'm genuiely interested in the appeal because I am missing what he offers the USA? I can't speak for Shady but to many of his supporters he represents a lack of alternatives. Don't ever doubt that unlike the character of legend most folks who are tilting at windmills know they are doing so. Sometimes there is just nothing better to do. I just look at where he stands on the issues that I care the most about Shady sorry to keep asking you questions its just I am use to people like GD explaining in detail I still dont understand what issues you mean?

Links ? Isn't Leipzig considered a right wing hotbed in Germany? https://archive.is/fw65Q https://archive.is/YExUK It's their own Morlocks, yes. A police officer shares his stories: (run google translate you lazy bastards!) http://www.oe24.at/welt/Wir-duerfen-Fluechtlinge-nicht-einmal-festhalten/219471096 Okay I am not an expert on German social culture but I doubt this represents a rejection of the overall refugee integration? I know Germany has always had a element of skinheard\neo-Nazi and to be honest I am very surprised it took them this long to riot...I would have expected this type of reaction from the beginning?

Drowsy despite what you may think about what motivates me I don't think Serbia or Serbs are criminals or are the only guilty party in the whole Bosnia and Kosvo conflict. Until Sarex said one day that he thinks most of the world has a negative view of Serbs I never had any negative view of Serbia and I still don't. I don't understand the history of the whole Yugoslavia animosity and I still dont understand why it appears the various ex-Yugoslav countries resent each other You should know that what white people did, and I am a part of that indirectly, in South African during Apartheid was much worse than any perceived human rights abuses Serbia may or may not have committed so I am not trying to embarrass you and I definitely dont think I am better than you so sorry for any misunderstandings about this But I don't want to fight with you about this, I just want to ask you one question. You said you are 28 so how would you have remembered details about the war in 1992 if you were 5? The reason I raise this is dont you think its possible what people told you about the conflict may not be necessarily true or perhaps a little biased?

Nonek sorry to put you on the spot like this but you haven't spoken to me for months and this was despite the fact I apologized to you Its strange that you would hold a grudge for so long? But maybe you are not ignoring me but its just we have very little to say to each other ....which I doubt, I'm not sure if you know but I'm also from the UK. We really should be talking due to our shared legacy ?

Links ? Isn't Leipzig considered a right wing hotbed in Germany?

Yeah I get the reasons but its still seen as against the basic rights of refugees.....but I think sometimes this whole rights of refugees can be a little unreasonable