BruceVC

I can't disagree with you more. fear has always been the greatest motivating factor in history. the terrible things we do to each other in the name o' fear is legion. am gonna avoid the obvious and overused european examples, but the US internment o' the Japanese in ww2 is a prime example o' the danger ' sacrificing liberties in the name o' safety and security. http://www.historynet.com/the-niihau-incident.htm Japanese internment were not unpopular, and many liberal-minded newspapers such as the LA Times actual wrote editorials in support o' internment before and after it occurred. peoples were afraid and they thought their fears were justified. the US government had cracked Japanese diplomatic codes which included Japanese ambassadors speculating that in the event hawaii were occupied by the Japanese, the bulk o' the hawaiian-japanese population would support the occupation. the fears were real. heck, perhaps the fears were more justified than is typical taught in US schools. even so, Japanese Internment is almost universal recognized as one o' the low points in US history... with the exception o' trump who sees Japanese internment as legitimizing some o' his more extreme immigration plans. he more liberty you willing give up, the easier it is for governments and corporations to take away your remaining liberties and freedoms. gotta learn from history. tHA! Good Fun! But Gromnir I can respect that analogy " the more liberty you willing give up, the easier it is for governments and corporations to take away your remaining liberties and freedoms " and course it is applicable. But is that Japanese example relevant? We were talking about WW2 and the fact that Japan was at war with the USA....but I am referring to a reality where the state security institutions are looking at ways to address the fact that technology is being used by Terrorist groups, so is it an invasion of liberties for the NSA to look at addressing this?

I can't disagree with you more. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Now I don't necessarily have a problem with federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies obtaining a search warrant with a federal judge based on a specifically outlined probably cause; but the idea of mass surveillance of the general citizenry or introducing a backdoor to break encryption with the understanding that it'll only be used this one time and that no one else will ever have access, or can steal, or hack into the software, pretty please you can trust us; is a bit naive. I'll be honest this is exactly the response I thought you were going to post, its very reasonable and its similar to the concerns I have seen posted by other people who like us I would consider are liberals and support the whole Obama legacy..so this is one example where we disagree on this type of government initiative. And I think its because of where we live So it seems your objection to the likes of Prism is not based on real examples of abuse of the system but rather on the concept of the potential of abuse? In other words can you give me some examples of how people have been illegally detained due to Prism? And I'm not trying to catch you out but this does seem to be the general criticism of Federal ideas like this whole Apple request..." no we are not going to help the Federal government out by providing a backdoor because of the possible problems we may face in the future" ...you see its just a general fear mongering tactic that immediately galvanizes support from many Americans who don't like the idea that the government can now read your emails ...if you are connected to terrorism'. So of course there may be some instances of perhaps misconduct but I don't think its naive at all to suggest that the likes of the NSA can manage a system like Prism without us assuming there will be egregious abuses, you need to have more faith in the abilities and integrity of people who work there In the rest of the world governments make changes to laws like the Apple event because of real terrorist attacks...so you guys in the USA have the luxury to object to certain laws based on a possible outcome

Very interesting opinion as I was expecting, I like to hear what all you American guys say about issues like politics. I don't necessarily agree with anyone but this forum has actually helped me understand a lot more about what motivates the average American citizen. I reference excellent opinions like the Economist and CNN but this forum has helped me really understand what the different people in the various states think...and your opinions are often very different which is understandable considering how different the various states are. I use some of the views I read on these forums to sometimes make points on the several Radio Talk shows I Iisten to in SA when I feel the need to explain what motivates the USA...and boy there is loads of misinformation towards the USA from some sectors which I feel I have to dispute Just a quick comment or question on what you said about some of candidates Trump: I have always maintained that he poses immense negative changes to the American image and perception that the world has of the USA if he comes to power. But let me not be dramatic, if he becomes president and based on your view that the president has limited domestic power could Trump actually do the following Reverse Obamacare Build the wall Deport the 11 million so called illegal immigrants? Sanders: I like the guy and I wish I could support him but he makes far too many populist ideas that I know resonate with people who really mean well but its not practical to implement. The biggest concern I have with him is this almost constant attack on big business and Wall Street. I get this negative view people may have of large corporations but what exactly is the issue here? Do people not like the fact that Walmart or Bank of America is so large...I get the 2008 concerns but don't large corporations in the USA actually do more good than bad, for example they Employ thousands of people Pay taxes and contribute towards the general improvement of any state they in Due to there size they often have R&D departments that do create innovative products They do work in most cases. I refer to the fact that the success criteria is measured in profitability..which is a good way to ensure good governance and less corruption, in South Africa one of the biggest causes of corruption in the Public Sector is due to the fact the targets are not set in the state organ being profitable. So this leads to much more failed government initiatives...trust me profitability is easier to follow if its done in a reasonable way I have only ever basically worked for large corporations in the private sector and they have always been good to me..so I dont understand what Sanders wants to change? Clinton: Yes I agree with your general criticism of her...she is unassuming but I still think she is the best candidate and I hope she becomes the next president. She doens't support anything radical and she is a disciple of Obama and his domestic policies who I have always supported...despite some of the valid criticisms from some of our members the USA is in a much better place from a foreign policy perspective. Nowadays the USA is about consensus around the UNSC and it doesnt feel the need to respond to attacks on its pride from people ...for example " Russia has outmaneuvered the USA in Syria " ..who cares about what Russia does in Syria ?

But guys lets look at this objectively as its not really relevant to consider the words of the sagacious Benjamin Franklin in this case The USA is the biggest target for Islamic extremist attacks in the world.The reality is many attacks have been prevented since 9/11 because of the diligence, hard work and resources of groups like the NSA, CIA and Homeland Security...but these groups are required to use what many of you guys consider are unorthodox or even unconstitutional methods like Prism. So once again I support the intention of Prism, I also don't understand the whole " Prism is a possible invasion of the American privacy "....has anyone ever been arrested unfairly due to abuse of Prism? I get the whole irritating and traitorous comments of Snowden where he " felt the whole world had to know now that the NSA has a means to monitor and track the communications of certain people once they were brought to the attention of the authorities" Now I work in eDiscovery in the financial sector and the concept of Prism makes sense ...but why would you guys have an issue with the state department being able to track the communication of real threats to the USA by people who possibly belong to a extremist cell and who use social media to update and there discuss there motives....yes guys social media is used by extremist groups? Would you prefer the government had no way of at least intercepting and understanding this information? And I see this Apple issue as the same type of thing, what difference does it make to you if the federal government has a backdoor to your devices? They would not access your personal data unless you are really implicated in terrorism...unless people feel they just cannot trust the Federal government which is a bit of a difficult debate to have with someone. I would have to read real examples of how Obama has used Prism to abuse his power to even consider this The reality of the world is simple now, we have to accept that certain ideas of liberty and privacy that we use to consider as sacrosanct are changing due to the threats the West faces...so please dont see this an attack on your way of life...its about your various elected governments trying to make the citizens of there countries safer

Thats what I thought. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the varied views of the members who dislike the West on this forum, they are wrong almost all the time or they are biased but I enjoy seeing a different view on certain political developments But my question is why is Poland so unhappy with the EU? I don't mean this is in a superficial level so " its about the refugees being forced on to us " ( I am still very annoyed by this move and I feel that it shouldn't be mandatory for any EU country to have to accept any Syrians...let the Germans and the Norwegians take them in but to just expect the East European countries to do this is just unreasonable..and I'm still a huge fan of Merkel and Germany despite the initial mistake to take in original refugees ) But I see now that there is real political division in Poland with this new " anti-EU " party? Why would this exist and are there objectives reasonable?

No Trump is just attacking Apple because he wants to maintain his tough, implacable, populist " I'll be tough on Muslim Extremist attacks" stance for the presidential debates I have very little in common with Trump as you know. No my criticism of Apple in this matter is I really think you guys are very concerned with " privacy issues " but you ignore the reality of the world now where to say " I reject any changes that infringe in my privacy " just seem to me to be idealistic and misplaced due to the real threats of the likes of homegrown terrorism or other internal attacks So you Americans basically have to chose..do you want to live in a society where you take the risk of a terrorist attack occurring or succeeding more likely because the Federal government is unable to access certain information or do you trust your government that it actually will use this new access to Apple devices in a way that is used to ensure state security For me its a no-brainer...but I admit I don't understand the concern around " privacy "...I have no issue with the government being able to scan all my communications, for me I have nothing to hide but the world and the threat to the West has changed...sadly due to the nature of terrorist attacks all Western governments have to now implement more data surveillance for there citizens. Its done to protect the country

Dark we sometimes have different views on some topics but I have always found you to be a interesting person to debate with, if someone asked me what your overall view on the West was I would say " you don't necessarily dislike the EU and other similar institutions but you question the overall positive and constructive impact the idea of Western ideology has had on the world " ?( is this accurate? ) Why I raise this is you seem to be in the distinctive group of people on this forum who generally are " anti-Western "...now this is fine of course and we must all be honest and debate what we feel is what we believe ..but I really like you so I have to ask this Are you looking for an alternate system of global financial influence and or general military significance than what works in the world, like the power of the IMF, EU and USA? So for example why do you think Iran and China economic alliance is in anyway significant and why do you think Russia's strategies in Syria is better than what the West has done?

Whats your view on this Elerond? I say Apple is being unreasonable and must abide by the governments wishes...its just one phone. Yes if the request is an automatic backdoor for the Federal government for all Apple devices I would also consider this reasonable but this just takes more time I get a little annoyed when people debate something like " its a privacy issue " when in fact its more important like state security

it appears that he is smoking a cigarette. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir I haven't noticed your views on who you currently leaning towards in the various presidential debates ? I'm sure you alluded to voting for Republicans normally but with the current ideological stances of the leading 3 Republicans I don't you align with any of them ...would you vote for the Democratics? Please share as much information as possible as I'm very interested in your opinion due to your life experience and current job

http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-pope-francis-mexico-visit-425792?rm=eu Guys this is UNACCEPTABLE, now Trump has insulted the Pope and called him " political" .....we know there is no worse insult than to compare someone to a politician,....its a low blow and I think Trump needs to seek immediate forgiveness and absolution

Guys I have to support Meshugger around this point, it would be imprudent to Ignore my posts....I do occasionally post real inspiration Took me three reads to realize you wrote "imprudent" not "impudent". Thats funny....I could easily have made that mistake

Guys I have to support Meshugger around this point, it would be imprudent to Ignore my posts....I do occasionally post real inspiration

Oby it seems like you want Turkey to go to war with Assad ....now Russia may get involved. Are you sure Russia should be doing this considering the mess the Russian economy is in?

You did? Where? I must have missed it. All I see is this... ...which actually rather says the opposite, as it says you know you annoy certain people...which I would think would imply you know what certain people you annoy... No Barti you are completely missing another option but I can see how you may think my view is inconsistent There are people who I know I annoy but that aren't necessarily the people who may have an issue....its potentially 2 separate groups It sounds what you are referring to is how you feel once you realize I have won the debate....thats never been a strong point of yours. You notice I often admit I'm wrong...the older you get the less relevant " being right" is

I think you have misunderstood something about the situation in Eastern Europe here. None of the nations in Eastern Europe is any military threat to Russia, and so there is no need to intimidate anyone. The more they fear Russia, the more they are going to flock to NATO and allow NATO to place bases, nukes, weapons and whatever in their countries. Scaring people with a Russian military threat is exactly what the pro-NATO folks are doing. These people were losing ground steadily up until the Russian intervention in Ukraine. Then everybody started eyeing NATO membership and they are still on a roll today, and will be until the conflict in Eastern Ukraine is resolved. Ukraine (previously a country with friendly relations to Russia) desperately wants into NATO and the EU and even Belarus started inching closer to the EU. Finland and even Sweden are going to join NATO at the latest in 2020 if things continue like this, it's an unavoidable consequence of public opinion. If Russian foreign policy was really working, they would have an Eastern Europe with increasingly pro-Russian opinions and Russian trade ties so deep that sanctions would be impossible to put in place. The entire Crimea debacle happened at exactly the right time to prevent this course of events. Gold is a crap metal anyway, and only worth so much because people collectively believe it has some kind of fiat value. Just like diamonds. If things really would go to hell, people would laugh at you trying to peddle gold. Congratulations for playing the game on the other gold fans, though. Ros maybe you should confirm joining the EU is a good thing so our American members have no doubt about what you mean?

No you cant use the doomed prognostication again....remember Obama 2nd term and the buying of gold ....you said we were doomed then

Barti stop making suggestions that aren't relevant !!! I have no idea who may have an issue, as I mentioned. And the issue is they don't tell me....so I dont know Barti you must read the post before suggesting something that is clearly already explained ....you naughty boy Oh and of course it doesn't bother me ....you know me but if other people are getting annoyed then I would like to know I'm all about other peoples feelings Barti Thanks GD, yeah I agree with you. I didn't think there was an issue but someone just suggested some people dont get my jokes and instead get annoyed So for me since I basically know everyone it just makes sense to ask and I think I have my response

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/18/yanis-varoufakis-how-i-became-an-erratic-marxist This link summarizes his view and the main issues I have with him, he espouses archaic socialist policies and basically suggests that the EU is a doomed institution. Its very myopic and is insulting People like him Baro just encourage people to now believe in ideological changes for the EU that are not sustainable ....yet he persists He also seemed to have a complete disdain for the EU when he was negotiating. I am not sure what he really believed he was doing back then? Did he actually help Greece at all?

Yes, I lost it when she went after service members. Tigranes immediately deleted me, and rightly, but I couldn't help it, my PT shorts became so twisted I didn't login for a week. Or three days, which is the same thing in internet time. But then I was all, WWSD. What would Shady do. He wouldn't hate, or react with anger. So I deleted my ignore list and it's been all namaste since. dude you funny, you are as cool as a cucumber You would tell me if I was saying anything perhaps rude in your opinion?

Ignore list? I'm not with you.,...I have never added anyone ever to any list as I find some tend to ignore me so it allows periods where I can chill

Absolutely yes, but please explain what you mean? I like you Hurlshort, you are a consistent, reasonable person who is a committed family man and also spends time defending things that many wouldn't because of the principle You are a stereotypical Californian liberal and I would be proud to be that but its obvious I annoy you yet you have never actually explained to me what I do that annoys you . I am well aware of that. And you are a teacher but you can't just send me a two line PM? So yes I would love you to be honest...I would have expected it much sooner, sorry if I am being rude its just we agreed to be honest...this has nothing to do with me liking you

Good point Mani....did Qistina get to you? I remember you were noticeably annoyed the one time She is not a good person to start believing her view is real.....I still dont know if she was a troll or not? But I have had real debates with people like her, the secret is you have to accept she is not very informed,...she is not very bright Her links and " accurate " portrayals of the West are from these websites that have only one purpose...to go into great detail " revealing " how the West wants to destroy Islam They contain these violent and incredulous videos about things....but I tried to keep telling Qistina that the West doesnt want to destroy Islam or the ME, Muslims are doing that on there own

I dont think we have ever said a bad word to each? But yes I have been a little perhaps surprised at your lack of support for the success of Germany...which I was honest about? I don't think I was condescending...was I ?

Guys it has come to my attention on several occasions that I make some comments on some occasions that are offensive to people....so for example In my country people like me help people make the right decision....think about it Elerond wouldnt it be better not having to think about a solution when I can just tell you the right answer....." "Compare him to Trump.....you Canadians seem to be an unpatriotic bunch?" "Remember just because I'm speaking on your behalf it doesn't mean you can't sometimes correct me...." "..,.. tlisteningo me takes the stress over having to make your own decisions, now you can focus on other things" I am very surprised that anyone would take this seriously...of course I'm joking. But in the interests of brevity and candor lets please be honest, I really want your views on my posting etiquette, I promise you wont offend me in anyway and it doesn't mean I will agree but I will respect it So let me start..and remember its about honesty, we should be able to discuss this We all adults, how come very few people didn't just contact me on PM...I would do that if I felt offended. But I have no issues with anyone on this forum despite the fact I know I annoy certain people but they must let me know Yes we had some heated debates during GG but I moved on after a few days .,...yet some people I think still carry some sort of protracted grudge Honestly? People must learn to get thicker skins, I live in a country where many of us engage in RL debates about racism, economic transformation, GDP and politics. Its intense, brutal, honest but rewarding....I have learnt so much about what Apartheid was and what it means to be a white, South African. I know the true suffering of many black South Africans...its real, tangible and I help deal with and we unpack it You feel horrible as a white person but liberated and profoundly committed to the country..I am happy very happy but we major social, political and economic issues So sorry if I can't feel resentful about gg...I moved on quickly

I'm still waiting to read that debate between you and KP on the European debt crisis. Yes well thats a good example, we started it but then I ended up dating with alum about GG but I'll be honest I think I went out or got stoned and lost interest But I feel I have been rude to KP in the past and I'm tyring to understand his view...ultimately I can produce irrefutable links that describe how the Greeks mismanaged there economy for years...this is not a secret to anyone who works in any financial sector in any country. But end of the day I'm sure we will still disagree because he feels the austerity measures are crippling and cannot be successfully implemented He has more empathy than me, I respect that but for me the Greeks need to do what everyone else has to do and adhere to the austerity. I would be betraying my principles if I gave any European country a pass for not managing there own economies...I won't do this with any African country as I believe in the transformation of the continent but certain African countries and the whole AU needs to follow prudent Western principles around good governance and general Democratic values...if most African countries are doing it surly we can expect the Greeks to do it?