BruceVC

So what is your solution here? I may be wrong here Hurlshot but I noticed you sometimes have a very good way of supporting an idea or social development without bias because you believe in the principle that the outcome is a good one and constructive For example, I think you firmly believe in the principle of religious freedom in the USA and you also believe that Muslims should be able to practice there religion in the USA as the majority of muslims are not extremists and you are 100 % correct. I hope no one is suggesting that all Muslims are extremists But the other guys are also correct, yes we must condemn homophobia from some US Christians but the people involved in Islamic extremism are way worse than any US conservative preacher spreading hate speech So you both right, you ask what to do next? We continue to condemn any homophobia from Christian conservatives We welcome Muslims into our communities as long as they understand the social expectation which is actually advanced in the USA We reject and condemn any Islamic extremism but we dont say " all Muslims are like this "

Yes but those examples are from an era where Colonialism was real, my ancestors the British did believe the British empire was ordained to govern the world....the Europeans genuinely believed they were superior Aparthied occurred after that time and SA was the last bastion of white control in the whole continent And what is unique is you had 8 % of the country controlling 92% of the population.....then Apartheid ended and despite the 92 % being the actual ruling party they are dependent on maybe 3 % of the 8 % to run the economy and provide a framework for many things What example in the world is similar?

I appreciate you input, I know you have a deep intellectual understanding of these matters but also you have you own personal journey however you also dont understand the whole SA narrative, no one who has not lived here and then been part of unpacking the Apartheid legacy will understand the nuances and reality. But let explain in a quick summary why we are different For 50 years a system was enforced on all black South Africans that looked to rewire what makes people human, it was only allowed to continue for so long because of the Cold War For those 50 years the majority of black people had no exposure to things like economics, history, science and had no knowledge of the outside world When Apartheid ended most black South Africans started participating in the normal world but from a position where they had no experience or understanding of anything outside South Africa This is the reality of SA where black South Africans are absolutely becoming more active and informed about things that matter but they are also susceptible and deeply impacted by what white South Africans say ...even uninformed white racists White and Black people in SA are inextricably linked and depend on each other to transform the country This is a unique social and political reality and most people dont understand it but we do

@ KP I'm glad Sanders got involved in the nomination, he raised issues that resonated with people and this type of intervention can only strengthen the institutions of Democracy (actually I dont really believe that but I was told its the right thing to say ) But I do like him, he means well. But we dont want to destroy the US economy just to appeal to left wing populist rhetoric

Do Americans have a problem with Radical Christianity and what is the FBI doing to keep arms out of their hands? Thing being, of course, that if it were one of his congregation who did the shooting instead of a 2nd gen Muslim Afghan you'd have most of the people who want it to be all Radical Islam insisting it wasn't a religious issue this time and most of the people who don't want to mention Radical Islam insisting this was a religious issue, this time. Weirdest panel conversation I've seen in ages was over the question of whether the Orlando shooting was ISIS inspired or an attack on the LGBT community, as if they were wholly separate concepts and it had to be one or the other but not both. Because apparently ISIS isn't anti gay or something andor someone cannot be inspired to be anti gay by them or join them because they were already anti gay, I couldn't follow either side's 'logic' but they seemed utterly committed to it. And, of course, both sides insisted that the other was politicising the issue... Its really not that complicated, it was a hate crime and an attack on the USA and he was inspired and swore fealty to ISIS ISIS still need to be destroyed and certain countries will still face potential attacks

Tomorrow for lunch I have decided to make myself a cheese fondue, I have perfected the recipe and always experiment with 3-4 Swiss or French cheeses But tomorrow I will be trying something different..I will be using a dark red wine instead of the normal dry white wine ..lets hope it works

Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes . http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html Well played by the way, I remember the whole Rotherham disgrace....its those types of reprehensible events that really annoy me Oerwinde are you worried about the future as far as extremism is concerned ? I think its inevitable. You have the collectivists becoming more and more extreme in their attacks on individualists, and the islamists emboldened by collectivist support, and individualists being pushed further to extremism by the threats of Islam and the collectivists. Whats interesting with the Orlando thing is it is causing a rift. Conservatives are coming out in support of gays and the threat of Islam, with regressives coming out in support of Islam. With the regressives attacking a lot of gays as "cis white males" and conservatives embracing them, you're starting to see some major K shifts amongst gays. Do you think the West faces a real threat that could eventually lead to a war or something similar

Dont get annoyed by this, people like this I consider fundamentalist Christians and dont represent the views of the majority of Americans or Christians ...very few people nowadays in the US would be this open about there bigotry I am not sure about your assessment of very few people, there has been quite lot people in twitter and facebook that have openly celebrated this attack. Although all don't necessary directly declare death for gays but aren't really that sympathetic towards people being killed just because who they love https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McJcI7zcBfc You right of course and I'm not making excuses but until 10-15 years ago Conservative Christians were very strong in the USA and they were opposed to homosexuality. Times have changed but your old school ministers and preachers wont change

Dont get annoyed by this, people like this I consider fundamentalist Christians and dont represent the views of the majority of Americans or Christians ...very few people nowadays in the US would be this open about there bigotry

How long do you think someone deserves to go to prison for being an idiot? And, another thing to consider; locking her up won't change her being a racist. Perhaps she should be killed? After all it's the only way you can be absolutely sure she will not say bad things or think bad thoughts in the future. No we dont need to kill anyone, once we see real legal consequences for these types of comments these types of public statements will stop But they will still THINK them Bruce! Don't you see? It doesn't make a difference if they say them... they are THINKING them! Sooner or later a thought will slip out or they will bet mad and blurt it out and the cause of civil rights will be set all they way back to apartheid. Kill them... kill them all. That is the only way to be sure! The only other option will be to create a new government department and remand everyone who thinks racist thoughts over to them to be re-educated. Maybe after years of intense physical and psychological torture, I mean therapy you can correct their thinking. You can even call that new agency "The Ministry of Love". Catchy isn't it? This is what I have never explained, what would you say if I told you that racial tension has the potential to undermine and collapse the new South Africa. Would that change your mind.....now this would be a unique perspective because this would never happen in the USA but please understand it does have the potential Not really. If the racist screed of one idiot who has no power to do anything but piss people off is enough to collapse a whole country into a race war I suggest you get out now because it is inevitable. If someone says something offensive the proper course is to criticize them, shame them, vilify them or ignore them. Not lock them up. I not sure if I ever acknowledged this but what you and Gromnir have been saying is 100% correct and very relevant to any first world country and most countries for that matter...but please believe me due to Apartheid SA faces unique challengers which requires these unusual steps I dont mean there will be a war, I mean a populist party could come to power and unintentionally destroy the economy through policies like nationalization

I always forget who supports what SJ campaigns on these forums but you a big supporter of the LGBT community ? Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes . http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html Well played by the way, I remember the whole Rotherham disgrace....its those types of reprehensible events that really annoy me Oerwinde are you worried about the future as far as extremism is concerned ? If I might interject; I'm finding extremist as the only viable solution as I often see moderates and reasonable people not taking a stand or not being driven enough to actually make a difference. As I wish change and for these kinds of events to stop I believe extremism to be a good option at least until the pendulum swings the other way entirely and we are back to a repressive state. But I try not to think too much of the cyclical nature of humanity as i'm not patient or kind enough to tolerate it, so I just feel contempt for all of it and I don't like that. You are always welcome to interject Do you mind going into more detail, what change do you want and do you want a repressive state? I don't want a repressive state but I just see as an inevitable outcome since people can't seem (at least on the first world) to know when to draw the line and stop their politicking. So lest I fall into the trap of cynicism and begin to think of ways to ruin humanity I choose to wash my hand from the whole affair and leave it to pompous internet warriors who believe that their ramblings are going to change the world. Well you have insights that many others may not have due to your connection to Cuba so your opinion is always interesting I don't think that it was all that different from Joburg, except a bit tamer...a lot tamer actually. Your history is impacted directly by ideology I imagine, if you dont mind me asking how do you feel about the new relations with Cuba? Do you care....do you feel betrayed?

How long do you think someone deserves to go to prison for being an idiot? And, another thing to consider; locking her up won't change her being a racist. Perhaps she should be killed? After all it's the only way you can be absolutely sure she will not say bad things or think bad thoughts in the future. No we dont need to kill anyone, once we see real legal consequences for these types of comments these types of public statements will stop But they will still THINK them Bruce! Don't you see? It doesn't make a difference if they say them... they are THINKING them! Sooner or later a thought will slip out or they will bet mad and blurt it out and the cause of civil rights will be set all they way back to apartheid. Kill them... kill them all. That is the only way to be sure! The only other option will be to create a new government department and remand everyone who thinks racist thoughts over to them to be re-educated. Maybe after years of intense physical and psychological torture, I mean therapy you can correct their thinking. You can even call that new agency "The Ministry of Love". Catchy isn't it? You funny I need to explain something fundamental, I can imagine my suggestions must seem naive, misplaced and you think I'm pandering to some false sense of moral code. In most countries you would be right but SA is in a unique position due to out past This is what I have never explained, what would you say if I told you that racial tension has the potential to undermine and collapse the new South Africa. Would that change your mind.....now this would be a unique perspective because this would never happen in the USA but please understand it does have the potential

I find it more irritating than anything. And while you may say its hyperbole and not to take it seriously.. That is pretty much the campaigns as they've been run for the last few months. You don't get informed decisions when EVERY side is spending more time demonising the opposition rather than having valid discussion. I understand your frustration, one of the main reasons for all this hyperbole is no one actually knows what the outcome will be So economists and other prominent public figures are operating in an unknown reality ..hence the grandstanding and extreme views

How long do you think someone deserves to go to prison for being an idiot? And, another thing to consider; locking her up won't change her being a racist. Perhaps she should be killed? After all it's the only way you can be absolutely sure she will not say bad things or think bad thoughts in the future. Did you watch the video? She wasn't just being an idiot, she said some of the most pathetic and ignorant things I have ever heard But we have now started fining extreme racist comments http://www.destinyconnect.com/2016/06/10/penny-sparrow-slapped-r150-000-fine/ No we dont need to kill anyone, once we see real legal consequences for these types of comments these types of public statements will stop You think I'm being unreasonable but I'm not as its part of our legacy that this is addressed

Come on dont take it seriously, its hyperbole and people using spurious guilt tactics

Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes . http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html Well played by the way, I remember the whole Rotherham disgrace....its those types of reprehensible events that really annoy me Oerwinde are you worried about the future as far as extremism is concerned ? If I might interject; I'm finding extremist as the only viable solution as I often see moderates and reasonable people not taking a stand or not being driven enough to actually make a difference. As I wish change and for these kinds of events to stop I believe extremism to be a good option at least until the pendulum swings the other way entirely and we are back to a repressive state. But I try not to think too much of the cyclical nature of humanity as i'm not patient or kind enough to tolerate it, so I just feel contempt for all of it and I don't like that. You are always welcome to interject Do you mind going into more detail, what change do you want and do you want a repressive state? I don't want a repressive state but I just see as an inevitable outcome since people can't seem (at least on the first world) to know when to draw the line and stop their politicking. So lest I fall into the trap of cynicism and begin to think of ways to ruin humanity I choose to wash my hand from the whole affair and leave it to pompous internet warriors who believe that their ramblings are going to change the world. Well you have insights that many others may not have due to your connection to Cuba so your opinion is always interesting

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/racistrant-woman-caught-on-video-2035782 Guys here is ANOTHER display of appalling racism from a white South African...and you wonder why I want to see real punitive legal measures against this small percentage of racist and ignorant white South Africans Here is the video http://www.enca.com/south-africa/womans-racist-rant-caught-on-film

As usual Putin is completely wrong with his assessment of what motivates Western countries You see his view also highlights how different Russia and the West are, Putin thinks this is what Cameron wants ...he cant understand a political reality where its the actual UK citizens who want this vote He thinks this is driven all from Cameron which is what any authoritarian would assume

Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes . http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html Well played by the way, I remember the whole Rotherham disgrace....its those types of reprehensible events that really annoy me Oerwinde are you worried about the future as far as extremism is concerned ? If I might interject; I'm finding extremist as the only viable solution as I often see moderates and reasonable people not taking a stand or not being driven enough to actually make a difference. As I wish change and for these kinds of events to stop I believe extremism to be a good option at least until the pendulum swings the other way entirely and we are back to a repressive state. But I try not to think too much of the cyclical nature of humanity as i'm not patient or kind enough to tolerate it, so I just feel contempt for all of it and I don't like that. You are always welcome to interject Do you mind going into more detail, what change do you want and do you want a repressive state?

The elected Republicans do favor it because it's a lot of money to business interests but it's unemployment to the rank and file GOP voter. There is an old saying about riding a tiger. It's a lesson the GOP has never learned. Guys what is the issue with this trade deal from your perspectives?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/17/sport/russia-doping-iaaf/index.html The entire Russian athletics team has been banned from the Rio Olympics due to the egregious and state sponsored doping....I feel bad for the athletes who dont dope but sometimes these things have to happen

Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes . http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html Well played by the way, I remember the whole Rotherham disgrace....its those types of reprehensible events that really annoy me Oerwinde are you worried about the future as far as extremism is concerned ?

Wow, thats a new low..someone finding this funny I dont buy the whole " coping mechanism " because the attack happened in the USA and not the UK

How long must one dunk their own head in a toilet and keep it there to be this unaware of how the world works...? Dont be hard on yourself LK....most people never take introspective looks at themselves and identify ways they can improve

Okay but where did you get the number of 1400 from...Muslim rape gangs in the UK? I have never heard of such a term...do you have links ? But I do agree sometimes in its attempts to be inclusive the EU can make mistakes .