BruceVC

No More like ancient Babylon...how much of that exists? The Hanging Gardens for example are long gone Didn't Babylon leave some archeological evidence that it existed? If so, even there are only stories about the Gardens, I would place them in the "probably real" category. If there is no tangible evidence of Babylon's existance, then the Gardens go into my "probably myth" category along with Atlantis. YMMV I have always wondered what the gardens must have looked like ? They definitely were real at some time in history

Would you define Canada as a civilization?

Of course Wilders would say that, he is opposed to many of the core values of the EU....so anything that would ostensibly weaken the EU he thinks is a great idea

No More like ancient Babylon...how much of that exists? The Hanging Gardens for example are long gone

Yeah, there is loads of fear mongering I heard something really funny on Sky, they were interviewing people in EU: Out camp and one interview was with a businessman who owned a factory that basically sold smoked salmon The owner explained why he supports EU: Out, he said last year EU regulations forced him to repackage all his fish at a great personal cost...and the reason he had to repackage his product ... " EU regulations insisted that he have a warning label on his salmon that says ...this product contains fish "

Well there could stories passed down about previous empires or races ....wouldnt that make them real on some levels ?

So a civilization has to leave tangible evidence of its existence? Oh Amentep I love the way you think, you have this insight or perspective that is difficult to dispute No a civilization doesn't need to leave evidence to be relevant so thats not a requirement Whats your view on religion and its relevance to the foundation of civilizations ?

Volo how do you know when someone on a forum like this is being sincere when they apologize? You seem to assume anyone who apologizes isn't really sincere?

Please check IP and post findings..I would love to see the results as I have a few theories of my own

Meshugger I meant to say you raised some good points here, I may not personally agree with them as rationale but yes I agree these are reasons some people are supporting Trump

Volo there is no need for personal attacks against any member, I have been saying that for ages You can have a debate with someone without being personal, I can promise you it can be done

Interesting debate around religion and great civilizations Aren't we getting confused about a few things, almost all religions came into existence as a way for man to explain things in the world they didn't understand and to basically justify certain global events and phenomena So the sun setting and rising was in fact a god according to the Greeks and Romans...an eclipse was " the gods are angry " So where am I going with this? Man created religious belief as part of there view of how the world operated...its always been like this. Ancient civilizations have probably always had religions but religion is just part of what defines the reason for the creation of civilizations

My comment should not be construed as anything other than a repudiation of Robert Kagan's eliteist snobbery in that op-ed Bruce linked We should know by now almost all of Bruce's arguments are as full of **** as a toilet after eating taco bell. No this is an exaggeration, sorry KP but I dismiss this post as nothing but "anti-BruceVC propaganda "

GD how much of this do you agree with "And the source of allegiance? We’re supposed to believe that Trump’s support stems from economic stagnation or dislocation. Maybe some of it does. But what Trump offers his followers are not economic remedies — his proposals change daily. What he offers is an attitude, an aura of crude strength and machismo, a boasting disrespect for the niceties of the democratic culture that he claims, and his followers believe, has produced national weakness and incompetence. His incoherent and contradictory utterances have one thing in common: They provoke and play on feelings of resentment and disdain, intermingled with bits of fear, hatred and anger. His public discourse consists of attacking or ridiculing a wide range of “others” — Muslims, Hispanics, women, Chinese, Mexicans, Europeans, Arabs, immigrants, refugees — whom he depicts either as threats or as objects of derision. His program, such as it is, consists chiefly of promises to get tough with foreigners and people of nonwhite complexion. He will deport them, bar them, get them to knuckle under, make them pay up or make them shut up. "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-how-fascism-comes-to-america/2016/05/17/c4e32c58-1c47-11e6-8c7b-6931e66333e7_story.html Guys here is a powerful and evocative piece of commentary, I definitely agree with some of it...its deep but well worth reading

But this is my point, Trump keeps making these absurd comments and many of his supporters just believe it Why would anyone conceivably believe Mexico would ever pay for this wall?

Mesgugger why do you think people like Trump ? And many of his policies are idiotic and wont benefit the USA at all, like the Trump Wall and his plans to deport 11 million people ....yes thats right, its all hyperbole, grandstanding and false bravado

This should be a good thing, I believe this has been discussed in some detail in another thread?

You won't be missed. Silly Namutree.You won't be rid of me, Europe has had the internet since at least 2010 LOL. I don't mind you being here on the forum. Just please do as you said you would and leave the country after Trump wins. Why would you want people to leave the USA if Trump wins? Its like you daring people to "do what they say " ? I would imagine its better to reconcile the various political differences these elections have created?

You won't be missed. Silly Namutree.You won't be rid of me, Europe has had the internet since at least 2010 LOL. Sadie is right Namutree ..,.the Internet is a global phenomena

Okay, you raise some good points about this adding to the overall strength of Democracy I need to try to see that aspect of this race

Yes I agree, for me Sanders is a creating a distraction to the ultimate Clinton victory I have been saying for a while now but I wish Sanders would just end his campaign, it has been a good race and he has done very well but I want to see the Democrats starting to meaningfully unite behind Hilary to address the Trump political behemoth

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-election-2016-shapes-up-as-a-contest-of-negatives/2016/05/21/8d4ccfd6-1ed3-11e6-b6e0-c53b7ef63b45_story.html FivethirtyEight grades ABC News/Washington Post polls as an A-. Geez, those statistics are interesting This really seems like its going to be a VERY close presidential race

There seems to be a degree of sarcasm and negativity on this thread? I try not to be sarcastic and focus on the big picture view of politics and not get bogged down when those meaningless debates around ideology begin...sometimes they can be divisive So for me the good news view at the moment is " Hilary Clinton will almost certainly be the next president of the USA" .. But the whole election race is chaotic and I think very hard to predict accurately ..I still stand by my original prediction but there are some anomalies and exciting new developments that make any prediction possibly spurious

Holy Smoke that looks brilliant !!!