BruceVC

Uh huh. well, i judge Muhammad for making the brainwashing machine called islam but what may seem as a generalization on the people who follow that faith, is more of a comment on what that faith demands of them and how these demands force on those who come to the west a choice between compliance with their faith and casting off part of their faith for integration into a society that rejects most of what their faith asks/permits. ISIS acts exactly like Muhammad did, 1300 years ago. Which makes Muhammad a both progressive and pragmatic leader of his time. ISIS is not in any way progressive or pragmatic? They are an aberration of the Islamic scripture, they are utterly brutal and anachronistic. Their interpretation of Islam has no place in the year 2017 and the only way to address these concerns is to annihilate them. The good news about most ISIS fighters is there belief in martyrdom means they generally fight to the death which means its much easier to address the ISIS residual impact from countries where they are active in I must be misunderstanding you about saying "ISIS is progressive group"

But volo to be fair then that type of criticism about the bible is very unreasonable and also unintentionally you are demonstrating a form of inconsistency around the definition of what you say is wrong...let me explain If you not religious then why does it matter what any religious scriptures says about events in the past, its illogical to say " God kills children " if you dont believe in God? Also my understanding of the Old Testament is that some stories are parables and are not suppose to be taken literally?

But volo what denomination are you, I thought you were agnostic like me?

I looked this up as Im not an expert on Old Testament history and yes I think you 100 % correct He is referring to Moses and the Jews leaving Egypt and how Egyptian children were killed....but even if that is correct its got to be one of the most unreasonable and unusual criticisms of a religion I have heard? We talking about events that happened thousands of years ago ?

volo what do you mean by " mass murder of children " ? In this in the Bible?

You probably put the most meaningful effort into these debates to position a reasonable and objective view of the Muslim diaspora and its integration into places like the USA and yet you often seem to be debating alone ....but I appreciate your consistency and it does matter as its the principle But there is a valid argument around uncontrolled or expected immigration from Muslim countries to places like the EU and the USA. There has to a better way of encouraging this than playing guilt trips or suggesting people are bigots when concerns are raised about integration and cultural acceptance And I am not saying this is what you suggesting but I hear this in SA when certain anti-Western commentators say things like " The EU must just accept all immigrants as they are rich and must share resources " " The USA are bigots because some of their citizens have real concerns about domestic terrorist attacks by lone wolf Islamic homegrown extremists "

Thats definitely not how I see her character She always wanted to be treated like her brothers and naturally she resented the fact she was suppose to be a lady and that excluded her from certain choices, like learning how to fight. When most of her family were murdered she wanted to avenge them and the training at the Faceless man society gave her that....its a brutal world they live in volo and obviously her objective is to kill certain people...but its a valid motive But who has she killed that didnt deserve it ? And you can see she had real love for her Dire Wolf so she isnt someone who lacks emotion or empathy

volo you understand she is driven by the fact most of her family were executed and betrayed? She is not some wanton, merciless killer with no conscience She wants vengeance and justice, I completely understand her motives She isn't a baddie and the Freys absolutely deserved the outcome they received as they were primarily responsible for the red wedding and Rob's killing

I cant say I have ever heard Muslims going around and saying " "Allahu Akbar" unless its in the context of some kind of terrorist attack or Jihad or military outcome But I am not really an expert on Arabic and dont really pay attention when people speak it ? It mean god is great, it is phrase which Muslims use in their five daily prayers they should do. Interestingly it is phrase which use predates Islam. I Interesting, but when its used in the context we are referring to its normally screamed aloud and only those words are used ...its definitely not used in a nice way ? It is used in several situations In prayer, as mentioned In times of distress In times of joy and gratitude Following births and deaths During the Eid Festival and the Hajj In west it is most commonly linked to Jihadists/terrorists who use it as their battle cry. It usage as battle cry by Jihadist/terrorists is probably inspired by fact Muhammad and his followers used it as their battle cry. So in sort it is used both in nice and in not nice way Fair enough

I cant say I have ever heard Muslims going around and saying " "Allahu Akbar" unless its in the context of some kind of terrorist attack or Jihad or military outcome But I am not really an expert on Arabic and dont really pay attention when people speak it ? It mean god is great, it is phrase which Muslims use in their five daily prayers they should do. Interestingly it is phrase which use predates Islam. I Interesting, but when its used in the context we are referring to its normally screamed aloud and only those words are used ...its definitely not used in a nice way ?

I cant say I have ever heard Muslims going around and saying " "Allahu Akbar" unless its in the context of some kind of terrorist attack or Jihad or military outcome But I am not really an expert on Arabic and dont really pay attention when people speak it ?

I can understand how sometimes it does feel like this but dont believe it, reasonable criticism and condemnation of Islamic extremism is perfectly normal and is what we should be doing.

Islam is indeed making progress, 200 years ago as 2133 correctly pointed out we did see a progressive Islamic scholar who wanted to separate religion from state....what would be ideal though is to see the same positive objectives in the year 2017, its just a thought and doesn't necessarily apply when was the last time christians killed a gay in public just because he is gay? somewhere in the muslim world they are probably killing one right now. all religions have some ****ty beliefs, but in this day and age only one has its followers act freely on them at the expense of any number of innocents. Lol. Are you for real? Wait, wait. That doesn't count because... they aren't shouting "God is great" while they do the deed, right? Oh please 2133, stop making ridiculous suggestions that Western countries have the same views around human rights and how minorities are treated compared to countries under Sharia law. Its not even in the same ballpark. There are many countries in the ME where its the death penalty for homosexuality. As in its legally institutionalized ..of course homophobia exists in all countries but in many ME countries its illegal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_the_Middle_East I encourage you to do some research before suggesting the degrees of legal discrimination against minorities are the same in Western countries and countries under Sharia law

Racism is more of a societal problem that has a different impact in different countries but Islamic extremism is a global problem that threatens basically all countries and all cultures

the only way to fight religious extremism is with religion. there are strict rules about going to heaven in islam so if we want to stop these attacks by people who do them because they were promised a spot to heaven for them, is to deny them that spot and the rest will think twice before trying to do the same And how do you do that? The muslim form of excommunication? Which, incidentially means to stone them to death. capture them alive and deny them their religious rights. put them in a prison and feed them pork every day with no permission to go get their sin of eating it absolved by a priest. if they were to die without confessing that sin and getting pardoned for it, it would mean they would go to hell in places where the death penalty exists, execute them by beheading which means instant condemnation to hell. take them to a church and forcefully baptize them christians. leaving islam is the ultimate sin anyway the incompatibility is not about the distinction between state and religion. it's about the laws of western society that promote cultural and religious freedom but at the same time protect the rights of children, women, gays and so on - all groups that have no rights at all in islamic culture. so the question is: where do we draw the line between what law is acceptable to bend in the name of religious freedom and what religious freedom we cull in the name of the law? our law says "one man can marry one woman only" and their culture says "one man can marry as many women as he wants". do we bend the law or do we forbid the cultural practice? our law says "no sex with children" and their culture says "if she is 9 years old you can have sex with her". again what is more important, the law of their cultural freedom? our law says "whoever commits rape goes to jail" and their culture says "if a woman is raped, its her fault for walking around without a man to protect her and should be stoned to death - no punishment for the rapist". same question as above. so, where do we draw the line? are they willing to abide by that line? will they keep asking for the line to be moved more to the side of their culture? how will the lawmakers respond to such requests? are local people ok with them being allowed to do things that are illegal because of cultural freedom? what if local pedos start asking "in the name of culture" to completely remove the laws about sex with children? what if groups or anti gay fanatics of other religions use that bend on some laws as an excuse to push for outlawing gays? social progress is like climbing a very slippery slope and the moment we choose to make even the tiniest step back for anyone's sake, we risk sliding down several hundred years. " feed them pork every day " .... What a truly terrible punishment..can you imagine you had to accept one of these tortues, which one praytell would you choose? Parts of your body covered with boiling oil To be stretched on a Rack To have hot coals poured on your back To eat a bacon and egg sandwich Such choices.....such choices

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-18/bannon-says-he-s-going-to-war-for-trump-after-white-house-exit So Bannon is going to war for Trump.....he mean he hasnt already been?

Firstly I want to recognize the effort you have put into this post, this is exactly the types of posts I wish you always wrote. I am sure I have asked you similar questions before but you never responded in such detail, no matter its more relevant you made this post now Did I tell you I can truly say you taught me at least 3 new ways to look at life and SJ developments in a better more honest way. These new perspectives I gained are nuanced yet relevant to how I look at the greater objectives I strive for in RL I can mention what they are if you interested ?

Where's your proof? volo is one of those members who has this irrational and unfathomable dislike of Obama, he cant really give you a valid reason but tends to generalize so dont take what he says personally or think he actually wants to debate the point in a normal way

volo you were very quiet yesterday.....were you at the protest? Do tell...no judgement here. Which right wing did you associate with, if I had to guess I would say alt-right?

Bennie is this your idea of a joke when you say " German people are afraid of Neo Nazis" ? I know German people typically don't have great sense of humours especially when it comes to joking about themselves so maybe you joking about this comment

Im also watching CNN as one medium of news and I didnt see anything of the helicopter?

.....this sounds like a term created in some misplaced SJ discussion

Im unclear who was injured...people on both sides I imagine I am following this story and its interesting how different groups are descending on Charlottesville for different reasons to keep the statue up....lets see so far we have white surpremicists, white nationalists, neo-nazis, neo-Confederates, militiamen, KKK, alt-rightWho knew there were so many different groups representing the interests of white people....lucky us

And you're surprised? Whats your opinion on taking down of this type of statue? In South Africa there are these irritating movements called " Rhodes must fall " that want to remove all statues and or references to Colonialism or the history of the country. It makes no difference to me in the context of SA but Lee represents part of the history of the South, I can see how some people will see this as an attempt to erase history of white people and get upset And Im not in anyway supporting any kind of white supremacist ideology. I am just saying Lee is not seen by everyone as a symbol of racism or white superiority

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/12/542982015/home-to-university-of-virginia-prepares-for-violence-at-white-nationalist-rally Oh my hat...white nationalists, white supremacists ....neo-nazis !!! Its all happening in Virginia and over a statue of Robert E Lee ?