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Fallout 1 didn't have many children, but you had to look out for them, because if you accidentally killed one, the game punished you. You got tagged "childkiller", and got hostile reactions from everyone. The second time you killed a child you got stalked by bounty hunters (led by a tough guy named Chris Avellone ) and were unlikely to survive that if you were low level. There was a specific quest where you had to scare a kid out of a building before you started the shooting, if you didn't want to become "childkiller". Now on my moral compass that's way better than fallout 3, where you just can shoot at kids forever and nothing happens. They don't die, and everyone forgets about it in a couple of days. Putting children in a game just for pseudo-realism, and then tagging them as "unkillable" to avoid sensorship is insane hypocrisy. It would be better if there weren't any children in the first place. For New Vegas, i would suggest no children at all. All it takes to fix the realism issue is a zany scientific theory that radiation has turned everyone sterile, and a sidequest to solve the problem with cloning or something.

C'mon Josh give us some news you know you want it! The threads are dying with information starvation...

only in fallout 2, and only by setting their default behaviour: "run away- always/never" "take drugs- always/never" etc. you couldn't "play" them like in Planescape:Torment for example.

Something Completely Different

Basically, i think the most important thing they can do about gameplay, is to make the game playable in 3rd person. Crosshairs that are projected on what the character is looking at, instead of being fixed in the center of the screen. And fully rotatable floating camera. As for VATS, i really missed the groin and eye shots, as tactical elements -chance to blind/knock down/insta-kill. And VATS's major flaw is that you can't target body parts while in unarmed/melee. If they fix these, the rest are details IMO. Concerning skills, It's cool that some skills are merged, however a seperate throwing skill to throw ashtrays and teddybears around -without a special weapon- would be nice. And if they, for the first time, managed to make a truly meaningful gambling skill, especially since it's Vegas and all, that would be more than welcome. What I really hate about the skills in fallout 3 is that tagging a skill doesn't mean you specialize in it, because you just get a starting bonus which you can later negate by putting points on other skills. The old style of tagging, where points spent on tagged skills were doubled, helped build more specialized characters. And a little more involved formulas for stats to govern skills would be interesting. I'd like some skills to involve more than one stats. Also, more tweaks that aren't that important to me, but would be nice: -Different types of ammo and armor modifiers. -Traits. Major issue. Having the option to have a birthmark with a positive and a negative side added great replayability in the original games. -Drugs. I really miss the junky simulator: Initial high with sideffects, withdrawal, cold turkey when addicted. Drugs work a little like magic potions now, there's no sideffect, no withdrawal, and i think addiction just causes damage? i could be wrong here. -Criticall miss. Self injury, jamming weapons, dropping weapons, all those added a great deal of interest and realism, it's sad they're gone. Generally, i'd like to see optional things have an upside and a downside for the character. This was completely absent from fallout3 as a philosophy- everything you could do was a bonus.

You mean the writer was mysteriously murdered , police suspecting a link to the local gentleman's club? Best "In before lock" post ever.

Multiple threads would be nice. Having one thread makes it difficult to folow a discussion unless you're online all day. However, after ~2000 posts and zero news, i think the existing threads should break into subjects, and any new threads should have a little news in them. Yet another "Obsidian makes fallout: New Vegas: discuss weapons / quests / gameplay /setting etc. would be a little reduntant IMO. Also, Gromnir: I think Bloodlines has very little to do with Anne Rice and all the goth stuff. It stroke me as more of a parody. Its writing is your standard horror b-movie ripoff, but it's funny, well written and honestly, it maintained my interest enough to not skip one word of text, contrary to Fallout 3 which felt like Beyonce singing Opera: Shallowness trying hard to take itself seriously. In all seriousness, it's sad that a fresh high budget blockbuster like Fallout 3 falls short in comparison to a half finished game from 5 years ago, but i'd take Bloodlines over Fallout 3 any time as an RPG AND as a shooter. And the patched PC version is less buggy than Fallout 3 XBOX version, incredible isn't it?. Not comparing Masquerade pen and paper ruleset vs. Bethesda's crippled S.P.E.C.I.A.L. Not mentioning the Amazing technologic achievement of being able to see where you aim while in 3rd person :sigh: And, Bloodlines doesn't have portable nukes. Patch and replay, highly recommended.

And to balance the "nukes are bad" effect, thay made it so at least you didn't lose your grocer/questgiver right? Come to think of it, that incident could actually be the result of a portable nuke. Or a car accident.

Sure, i'm not saying it's not plausible to have existed in an alternate sci-fi universe. I'm saying that it negates the whole "Nuclear weapons are a horrible devastating force" context of the setting, by making nukes feel trivial. If Bethesda had to have a BFG9000 in their game, they could just make it run on "plasma", and even if that would be even less plausible by scientific terms, at least it wouldn't show how much they just don't get it. It's just a failed attempt in creativity IMO.

da fug? It's just a bigger rocket launcher. Also the weapon was based on an actual real world weapon that was developed back in the 1950s. I just like how people make idiotic criticisms without actually doing any research on the subject matter first. ...a weapon that was made for firing at a very long range like a mortar, and could level a city block. ... perfect for an easter egg. just perfect.

You could just pretend you're playing Doom and it's the BFG. It's just how you look at it. On the other hand, the fatman could make the perfect easter egg: Every time you ask someone where to find a portable nuke you get hostile responses, and when you eventually find the fatman and shoot it you die instantly in a glorious nuclear mushroom, for being so dumb that not only didn't you notice that everything around you is devastated because of nuclear bombs, but on top of that you dropped one more in close range. Messagebox: "We told you nukes are a bad thing, reload an earlier save." You're all individuals!!!

Ninja'd post from previous thread: Concerning religion, i don't think it would make sense to see a real world religion in the game, at least not in its current form. It would make more sense to have cults like the Followers of the Apocalypse. Thing is, with every major historical change in society, religion changes along with all major social structures. Sometimes new religions make their appearance, sometimes old religions cease to exist and so on. It would be reasonable to expect that after a nuclear holocaust, along with everything else, religions would be horribly mutated to something completely different and even under different names, just like the U.S. government became The Enclave for example. And the ex-christians or muslims or whatever don't have to be the good guys. In fact, in the original games i didn't perceive anyone as "good guys".

That would end up into too much trivial micro management. I don't think so. You would just have to gather some food & water apart from ammo before you leave town. I think it's a neat idea, a nice addition to the feeleing of town safety vs. dangerous wasteland. One [or both] of the first two games required that you actually had a canteen before a long trip, or you could get dehydration damage. *Ausir would know the exact details (or could find them). Yeah, but it was stupid because you auto-healed as you travelled and the dehydration would be a one-time-per 5 HP hit at most That. I never managed to die of dehydration, -but i did die of radiation. I thought it was cool that you had to get some radiation medicine before heading for The Glow, i think the same would apply for every long distance travel if the dehydration script could actually get you killed if you were dehydrated for too long, even more so if the food had a similar function (although IRL it takes a lot more time to die of starvation than dehydration). I think it would be a nice feature to have something like cumulative 10% damage per day while dehydrated, 2% damage per day while starving, 1 ration of food and drink gets autoconsumed from your inventory every day to avoid/ cure dehydration/ starvation. that way you'd autoconsume your nuka colas and your booze, and so every long journey would run the risk of cola addiction and alcoholism. cool huh? (i know IRL alcohol doesn't cure dehydration, it makes it worse, but still... who cares) actually some time ago i started making a fallout 1 mod with these, but then i got lazy.

That would end up into too much trivial micro management. I don't think so. You would just have to gather some food & water apart from ammo before you leave town. I think it's a neat idea, a nice addition to the feeleing of town safety vs. dangerous wasteland.

? I already had a minigun and a rocket launcher by the time i found my first schematics, maybe i was playing it wrong? i didn't really mind merged skills, as for explosives it would make more sense i think to determine granade damage (and critical hit/miss chance) by science or repair(electronics) , and have a throwing skill to determine accuracy of throwing stuff. What i'd really like would be some variety in explosives, especially more low-tech, like dynamites, molotov coctails etc. I'd like some more low-tech weapons in general, it would add to the survival part of the game.

I'd be happy if i just didn't have to craft a custom weapon in order to throw stuff. At the point where i had the schematics for the weapon, it didn't make sense to collect ashtrays for ammo anymore; my character was already armed better. However it would have been a novelty at lower levels. A throwing skill to determine damage and accuracy, maybe a modifier on certain items that are good for throwing: knives, spears, etc. would be cool, not really a necessity though. melee / unarmed just needs called shots, i'd be extra happy with that.

No, your point that " "we"(who?) want The Return Of Ye Olde Fallouts and it's not happening because fallout3 sold millions of copies" is pointless for the same reason, i just reversed your logic. I'm not into internet digging as much as you, but i gave it a shot: Other -more relevant- quotes can be found, it's just too much of a dig for me for today. One can be illiterate deliberately: Enough said, illiteracy has been defined. Judging by the games they've worked on, and posts of theirs i've read, I'm pretty confident that Obsidian folks have a quite different approach to writing, even if Torment -for example- was not exactly a masterpiece of literature. It's the attitude towards writing that's obviously different, and that's fine for me. Good fun to you too.

Literacy. I spent 20 times more, and uncountable times happier time with Bloodlines than i did with Fallout 3. so, obsidian ain't in this biz to make money, but instead is attempting to educate a new generation o' gamers... or somesuch nonsense. ps 'cause ziggy asked... http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic...ighlight=#23414 erm... i was talking about Literacy of the people who work in Obsidian, as opposed to monkeys with typewriters in bethesda, not literacy of the general public. i don't see why Fallout: New Vegas has to be a mindless boom-fest, in order to be successful. Lets test it by your own logic: Obsidian is not unsuccessful Obsidian makes RPGs with solid stories, and some of the people who work there are extremely talented (and also worked on ye olde fallouts) What is the motivation for Obsidian to play out of its league and make something very similar to Fallout 3? Hope for millions of sales and a new target audience? The fact that Fallout 3 is a mainstream franchise? But, Star Wars is even more mainstream, and i understand that KOTOR2 is something very different from an Action FPS with stats. Besides, as an old acquaintance would say: "They have to do what they do best". Oh, and i would hereby like to petition to autocensor the words " ain't ", " o' " and " an' ". they aren't quicker to type than their english counterparts, and therefore i don't see what purpose they serve other than making your posts painful to read. And thanks for the link. A post from 6 years ago by someone who's not even in this discussion, and you only type the first 3 out of his 11 lettter nick? I should have guessed it, how stupid of me.

WTF is bri? Literacy. I spent 20 times more, and uncountable times happier time with Bloodlines than i did with Fallout 3.

Oh come on you guys. SRSLY. If you take a look at those "various fallout fan boards" you'll see that there are other, unrelated to fallout, RPGs that are being praised by many for being, well, good games. Bloodlines for example, or the Witcher. Add to that a post apocalyptic setting that's not being ridiculed with portable nukes and transformers, and there you have it: An Ol' Skool Hard Core Fallout Fan

well, I don't know about oblivion, and there might be real talents out there in the modding community, but as far as fallout 3 is concerned, i'd rather play a game with an interesting plot to begin with, than a game that had a retarded and then forcefully un-retarded plot. That would feel like pasting funny home videos over a bad comedy, when i can watch a good comedy instead. as for VATS, i like its principle too; it's the execution that made it boring, repetitive, and less challenging than breething. especially when playing melee/ unarmed. Oh, and as an Ol' Skool Hard Core Fallout Fan

I'll aggree; personally my motivation to care about the game and follow these threads in the first place is that i've put my bet on Obsidian's ability to write a solid story and design interesting characters. Mind you, i'm one of those people that were absolutely disappointed by fallout 3, but the main reason was the writing. Writing can't be fixed by modding. If Fallout 3 had a solid story, I'd be OK with some of the most "fallout-y" mods out there that fix a lot of my gameplay/graphic gripes. I'd even be motivated to make my own mods. Well, maybe i would not be OK with the 3rd person perspective and VATS; I understand these are difficult to tamper with the available tools. I think after my initial unexcusable excitement followed by unconceivable disappointment with fallout 3, i'm not hard to please at this point; I think Fallout:New Vegas will be better even if it's post-apocalytptic GTA. Personally, the only "remedies" i'm hoping for, are that on top of the writing literacy, which i take for granted compared to Bethesda, Fallout:New Vegas's version of VATS will be more interesting, and most importantly, that the game will be actually playable in 3rd person. And for some metaphysical reason, i don't think i'm putting high hopes. Oh those and a modding kit.

I got the dressers stuff, it's been thoroughly discussed, let's move on: I'm asking about locations; why is it a weakness that most locations are populated by humans? Which game got this "weakness" right?

I dont get it, where is the flaw? I have never played an RPG that had any location that was not a. populated by people or b. populated by beasts or c. populated by lewt Fallout 1 & 2 gave emphasis to locations "a", while it had all 3 kinds, and that was good for me, as the most interesting parts of the game were played there, and i mostly play RPGs for the plot. In fallout 3, there were respectively less people to talk to, and more places to kill beasts and find stuff. so what? I'm not sure i'm getting your point. Can you give an example of a game that got right what you refer to as a flaw?

I dont think so. Fallout1's 80 years post war was completely believable, and so was fallout2's 130. Ingame mini-societies were advanced to a reasonable level considering it's 80, and 130 years after a nuclear holocaust. For example, I didn't find irrational that Shady Sands would develop into NCR in 2 generations' time. In fallout 3, it's 200 years and there's not even agriculture. Point is, for a story to make sense, someone's got to do the thinking. It's not so much a matter of storytelling medium- sure, people told stories with pictures since the dawn of the human species. On cave walls. What's more important is what story one tells, and whether one has the required talent, skill, and the motivation to do some homework before telling the story. That said, i'm pretty confident that J.E.Sawyer is "one of those people" who can tell a story that makes sense. I think the old discussion about Mormon communities in Van Buren has been reposted somewhere in this thread, and it's a very enlightening example of how one should research their story before telling it. Keep the faith twinkie! ...and how would the game sell less copies if it supported more options, like say, called shots in unarmed fighting?