TwinkieGorilla

VATS will most likely get a tweak. i just can't imagine Sawyer being completely ok with keeping it "as is" unless Bethie forces him into leaving it alone. though i do agree that the graphics engine and most other aspects of gameplay will remain unchanged. let me add two things which are much more important to that list. picture them, if you will, appearing before your #1. 1) A properly implemented SPECIAL 2) well written and conceived Dialogue

screw voice actors. that money is better spent elsewhere. if Bethie didn't spend all that cash on a lame duck like Liam Neeson they could have afforded one more "monkey with a typewriter" (Mr. Hines' words) and come up with dialogue which actually did the series justice. i mean...man, maybe it's because i'm old-school, but i don't even have the patience for voice acting. i read quicker than they speak and i just click past it all anyway. it's one of the worst and most overused areas of modern RPG's.

whaaaat....???? never!

and BINGO was his name-o!

nope. i think the point of Bethie approaching Obsidian is something like this: Bethie: oh, hai guys! we r teh busy working on TES nu-game and want more monies and phat l00t from Fallout title. whut you can do? Obsidian: well, sure. we'd love to! we've been wanting this all along...ever since VanBuren fell apart! Bethie: ok, gud. we go make TES nu-game now and you guys do things, lol. kthx bye! in all seriousness, i've been talking about this at NMA and a few things came up. it makes sense financially for Bethesda to do this. Obsidian make games for people, Bethesda's busy on TES, it's a good choice for them, financially. although i tend to think there are no coincidences and Bethesda wants to gain some "street cred" with the hardcore fans, so again...Obsidian makes sense. but if that's ALL it was...then why were Bethesda SO completely set on not letting any of the original Fallout devs in on FO3?

yeah, i guess that's similar to what i've been getting at for the past couple pages here. that sounds good. i really detest the idea of a game deciding moral principals for me.

which is why the alignment system is interesting. it's too easy to be "chaotic evil" but it's actually pretty difficult to be "lawful evil" on the other hand. it would be amazing if a more complex alignment system figured into the reactions of those around you. this could somehow be worked into the reputation system (maybe because of your reputation you get certain quests, rewards or punishments and as in-game rewards for staying true to your specific alignment you get bonuses. i dunno, just shooting from the hip here. it could get tricky and become too arbitrary like the karma system if it's handled lazily.) that is correct.

exactly! this is a huge problem with FO3. no consequences, at least nothing very interesting or innovative. oh, crap. Moira's face now looks like a ghoul. but hey! you can still complete her quest! wheeee! go Bethesda! this is the problem of their "Oblivio(ous)ness". ahhh, very Kafkaesque. i like it!

agreed. but i don't want the game telling me what's good or evil. this is why the karma system is crap. if there are people out there who disapprove of my actions that's great. but how do they know? well, they heard about it. how? people talk. but say it's long distance? well, there are travelers and caravans, right? so you walk into a bar and somebody recognizes you from the word of mouth description. they say to you "hey, you blew up that town, right? i might have a job for you." or they say "hey, it's the bastard who blew up that town! get 'em!" see where i'm going with this? the decision of "good" or "bad" or "neutral" is so juvenile it makes me want to vomit.

heh. i was JUST going to say "can we please just get rid of "karma" entirely?", as it really has no place in the game world. it's a silly abstract concept which for all intents and purposes is a pretty invisible and intangible thing (i guess the force WOULD start to show on you, if you were doing evil things...but that's where i have to draw the line. Fallout isn't a game with a magical or spiritual theme. it just doesn't belong.) what DOES belong, IMO, is the Reputation system. unlike karma, word of mouth IS real and happens everywhere, all the time, over great distances. so say you do something, people hear about it...and depending on their particular alignment or needs, they either like you or they don't (or maybe they couldn't care less, but they see you as an opportunity). seriously, Sawyer and Co. fecking get rid of karma or i hate you and your stupid faces.

hear, hear. while i say that Pet Sounds is the greatest Beach Boys album, the original Smile session bootlegs are my favorite to listen to, even though Brian Wilson had gone bat**** crazy. in that light, Fallout 1 is the better game when reviewed as a whole, for what it is...but FO2, regardless...holds such a special place in my heart for doing what no game before or after had ever done for me. *sigh* (post-party drunk-lamenting. is this a ban-able offense here?)

"oh, hai! i 'sploded Megatonzzors but i give you water and now i'm good guy team, lol!"

nonsense. they win with the Fallout crowd if they start paying closer attention to the original recipe. hire better writers, forget the crappy voice-acting, give meaningful consequences or rewards to your choices, ditch VATS/fix combat and fix SPECIAL. i can guarantee you that if these things were fixed you'd have at least half the people at the fansites singing a different tune. as of right now it could barely be called an cRPG. it's more like some other weird LARPy kind of hybrid. sure, it does a good job making you think your choices are going to mean something but they never do. as Gizmo said earlier, all characters everywhere are Oblivio(us) to any thing that happens.

yer. no problem here, i didn't realize it had to be that way.

aside from the physical changes, the biggest part of what bothered me was the lack of difference to your character's personality (i.e. speech checks) that SPECIAL and the skills offered. i mean, we went from a scientific explanation of irrigating crops to this: I fight the good fight on galaxy news radio with my voice. [intelligence] so you fight the good fight with your voice?

*rolls eyes* one thread, huh? great. anyway: awhile back i made this post to demonstrate the lackluster implementation of the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system in Fallout 3, using information from the Fallout wiki page, "The Vault". i am hoping that Obsidian can bring us closer, if not completely back to the original implementation of this system...making specific and specialized character creation fun and rewarding again. Strength Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Hit Points, Melee Damage, and Carry Weight Strength is primarily relevant to two game mechanics: Carry Weight and satisfying the Minimum Strength requirements on weapons. You gain 25 lbs. of carry weight per point of Strength (unless you have the Small Frame trait, in which case it's 15). Also, if you meet the minimum strength requirements of your weapon you do not suffer accuracy penalties with that weapon. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Melee Weapons skill, Carry Weight, melee damage bonus. Perception Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Sequence, ranged combat distance modifiers and the First Aid, Doctor, Lockpick, Traps and Pilot skills. A player character with higher Perception may notice things that allow them to open up new dialogue options on occasion. It also determines how far away your character starts from hostile critters in random encounters. A high Perception is important for a sharpshooter. In Fallout 2, Perception 7 or above is required for the Chosen One to notice the plug-in slot for the Pipboy on the Vault City computer; plugging it in and choosing the risky sounding Reformat option adds the Vault City Travel Log to the Pipboy. Noticing this slot makes it possible to obtain the Vault City Designer Notes after finishing the game; obtaining the Travel Log is not required for this purpose. Perception is required for many perks, notably PE 6 for Sniper. Fallout 3 - Modifies Explosives, Lockpick and Energy Weapons skills Perception also determines when red compass markings appear (which indicate threats) Endurance Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Hit Points, Poison & Radiation Resistance, Healing Rate, and the additional hit points per level. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Hit Points, Poison Resistance, Radiation Resistance (but not damage resistance) and the Big Guns and Unarmed skills Charisma Fallouts 1 & 2 - A high Charisma is important for characters that want to influence people with words. Modifies NPC reactions, and Barter prices. Modifies: Speech and Barter skills In Fallout 2, Charisma also determines the number of base companion slots your character is given. This number is equal to your charisma score divided by two. Predesigned Primary Charisma-based Characters (PPCC) of Fallout are Albert, and in Fallout 2's case, Chitsa. Having a high CH female will change Myron's dialogue trees to a sexual tone. Fallout 3 - A high charisma will generally lower the cost of goods bought, raise prices for goods sold, as well as reducing the cost of sleeping in a rented bed. Intelligence Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: the number of new Skill Points per level, dialogue options, and many skills. One of the unique qualities of Fallout and Fallout 2 was the difference in gameplay, specifically dialogue, if you decided to create a low intelligence character. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Medicine, Repair, and Science skills, as well as the number of new Skill Points per level. Agility Fallouts 1 & 2 - Action point allocation is based off of the AG stat. Therefore, a character that wishes to keep his enemy on its toes, or claws, needs to have a high agility in order to have multiple combat moves. It is a critical stat for anyone interested in the more mobile and visceral skills such as Unarmed and Small Guns. Other skills rely on it, but these have higher values in AG investment. Modifies: Action Points, Armor Class, and the Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee Weapons, Unarmed, Throwing, Lockpick, Steal, Traps and Pilot skills Fallout 3 - Modifies: Action Points available for V.A.T.S., and the Small Guns and Sneak skills. Your base action point total is equal to 65+twice your agility score. Luck Fallouts 1 & 2 - In Fallout, Luck primarily affects your chances with the virtual dice of the game, a high luck means you're more likely to succeed a roll, while the opposite is also true. Luck also affect the chance to score a critical hit on an enemy, with the standard being that your Critical Chance is equal to your luck (keep in mind, standard means without perks, traits, or aimed shots). Fallout 3 - Unlike other SPECIAL scores, luck has no specific skills associated with it. Instead, each point of Luck adds a half point (rounded up) to all skills. Having a high Luck will also improve your critical chance with all weapons. Now really, you don't have to spend a whole lot of time comparing these summaries in order to see how much less involved and rewarding to the game and your character SPECIAL is in Fallout 3. It's not an exaggeration. Sure, SPECIAL does some "stuff" in Fallout 3 but not much more than a few skill point dumps here and there. Pretty unrewarding if you ask me. *discuss*

awhile back i made this post to demonstrate the lackluster implementation of the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system in Fallout 3, using information from the Fallout wiki page, "The Vault". i am hoping that Obsidian can bring us closer, if not completely back to the original implementation of this system...making specific and specialized character creation fun and rewarding again. Strength Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Hit Points, Melee Damage, and Carry Weight Strength is primarily relevant to two game mechanics: Carry Weight and satisfying the Minimum Strength requirements on weapons. You gain 25 lbs. of carry weight per point of Strength (unless you have the Small Frame trait, in which case it's 15). Also, if you meet the minimum strength requirements of your weapon you do not suffer accuracy penalties with that weapon. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Melee Weapons skill, Carry Weight, melee damage bonus. Perception Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Sequence, ranged combat distance modifiers and the First Aid, Doctor, Lockpick, Traps and Pilot skills. A player character with higher Perception may notice things that allow them to open up new dialogue options on occasion. It also determines how far away your character starts from hostile critters in random encounters. A high Perception is important for a sharpshooter. In Fallout 2, Perception 7 or above is required for the Chosen One to notice the plug-in slot for the Pipboy on the Vault City computer; plugging it in and choosing the risky sounding Reformat option adds the Vault City Travel Log to the Pipboy. Noticing this slot makes it possible to obtain the Vault City Designer Notes after finishing the game; obtaining the Travel Log is not required for this purpose. Perception is required for many perks, notably PE 6 for Sniper. Fallout 3 - Modifies Explosives, Lockpick and Energy Weapons skills Perception also determines when red compass markings appear (which indicate threats) Endurance Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: Hit Points, Poison & Radiation Resistance, Healing Rate, and the additional hit points per level. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Hit Points, Poison Resistance, Radiation Resistance (but not damage resistance) and the Big Guns and Unarmed skills Charisma Fallouts 1 & 2 - A high Charisma is important for characters that want to influence people with words. Modifies NPC reactions, and Barter prices. Modifies: Speech and Barter skills In Fallout 2, Charisma also determines the number of base companion slots your character is given. This number is equal to your charisma score divided by two. Predesigned Primary Charisma-based Characters (PPCC) of Fallout are Albert, and in Fallout 2's case, Chitsa. Having a high CH female will change Myron's dialogue trees to a sexual tone. Fallout 3 - A high charisma will generally lower the cost of goods bought, raise prices for goods sold, as well as reducing the cost of sleeping in a rented bed. Intelligence Fallouts 1 & 2 - Modifies: the number of new Skill Points per level, dialogue options, and many skills. One of the unique qualities of Fallout and Fallout 2 was the difference in gameplay, specifically dialogue, if you decided to create a low intelligence character. Fallout 3 - Modifies: Medicine, Repair, and Science skills, as well as the number of new Skill Points per level. Agility Fallouts 1 & 2 - Action point allocation is based off of the AG stat. Therefore, a character that wishes to keep his enemy on its toes, or claws, needs to have a high agility in order to have multiple combat moves. It is a critical stat for anyone interested in the more mobile and visceral skills such as Unarmed and Small Guns. Other skills rely on it, but these have higher values in AG investment. Modifies: Action Points, Armor Class, and the Small Guns, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Melee Weapons, Unarmed, Throwing, Lockpick, Steal, Traps and Pilot skills Fallout 3 - Modifies: Action Points available for V.A.T.S., and the Small Guns and Sneak skills. Your base action point total is equal to 65+twice your agility score. Luck Fallouts 1 & 2 - In Fallout, Luck primarily affects your chances with the virtual dice of the game, a high luck means you're more likely to succeed a roll, while the opposite is also true. Luck also affect the chance to score a critical hit on an enemy, with the standard being that your Critical Chance is equal to your luck (keep in mind, standard means without perks, traits, or aimed shots). Fallout 3 - Unlike other SPECIAL scores, luck has no specific skills associated with it. Instead, each point of Luck adds a half point (rounded up) to all skills. Having a high Luck will also improve your critical chance with all weapons. Now really, you don't have to spend a whole lot of time comparing these summaries in order to see how much less involved and rewarding to the game and your character SPECIAL is in Fallout 3. It's not an exaggeration. Sure, SPECIAL does some "stuff" in Fallout 3 but not much more than a few skill point dumps here and there. Pretty unrewarding if you ask me. *discuss*

what? meh. i liked it ok as a generic post-apoc wasteland simulator and i thought some of the side-quests were actually pretty great and i loved the environmental design. this was all more than i expected before i bought the game. i actually prepared myself for the act of hitting "eject" and cracking the disc over my leg. the fact that i got nearly 100 hours out of it went miles to say how it surprised me. it's just that the dialogue was so embarrassingly bad and SPECIAL was very UNspecial because it was implemented superficially (i did a huge breakdown of this at the official Bethie forum awhile back). it just failed as a proper Fallout game for me. anyway, who cares? the point now is "let's hope FO:NV is the droids we were looking for!" idn't it???

yar. it's like the whole "grandma's recipe" problem. nobody ain't never gonna be able to use that same recipe and make it as good as granny. the problem with Bethie though, is that they took too many essential ingredients out of the recipe and substituted them for cheaper, easier ingredients. can you blame the people used to eating granny's stuff for spitting this new stuff out?

some similar thing happened at NMA a long time ago. too bad, since it was kinda beautiful watching Rosh's claws tear into their posts so viciously. in other news, since monday i've been doing all sorts of grave-digging and i just came up with this promising bit from Sawyer himself, written in the pre-FO3 days. he says: "I enjoyed the Dark Brotherhood stuff in Oblivion, though I hope Fallout 3 has more branching plotlines and important player chioces." (too bad he never got his wish)

yes, i'm concerned about the time limit as well. while New Reno was one of those bits which started to veer off the true "Fallout" path with it's silliness, what with the porn, the boxing, the mafia, etc....what it DID do right is it's utter expansiveness of it's content and quests. what i'd really like to see is the former kept to a minimum and the latter brought to fruition. one of the most disappointing aspects of FO3 was that Megaton was really the only "town/city/settlement" and it felt more like Shady Sands than something like New Reno. then on top of that you come to find out that most of the rest of the game are empty fetch quests, dungeon crawls and combat-heavy l00t runs. New Reno barely had anything to do with Combat. i'd love if we are able to say the same about New Vegas.

and here's another very common facepalm. the view which places the bulk of the Fallout fansite members in a camp which merely wants a recreation of Fallouts 1 and 2 (i have yet to see a single member anywhere who wants a recreation of Fallouts 1 or 2 but rather wants a game which meets the standards set by those games). (edited for simplicity)

oh boy. and did you know that so does Mikael's?

heck yeah. aside from, as i said, a list of specifics...this is all i really could hope for as well.

PVP? aww, nah. i was jus' joshin' ya. i'm excited we can have at it again. it's no fun bein' locked outta somewheres you wanna be, man. i'm quite excited, to be perfectly honest. without getting into a long series of nitpicking ('cause i really could) the biggest problems i have with FO3 are the failure of SPECIAL and the dialogue/writing/atmosphere which i view as ranging from tacky to downright embarrassing. i trust old Fallout devs to cure...at the very least, these things. awwww, probably not. it's not the first time i've failed to get a joke through or a point across. c'est la vie indeed.