pantherus

Yeah - Swoop racing in KOTOR II just plain sucks. Far too complex for a mini-game, and not nearly as entertaining as it was in 1. Also - I've heard that it's broken in the PC version, where you can never actually win - if you ever did well enough to win the game would crash - don't know if that's still the case or not...

That was a key problem with II - it WAS rushed. But yes, 1 was a lot more scenic and pleasant than 2. Of course 2 was supposed to be a war-torn, desolute galaxy due to the destruction of the Jedi and assaults by Darth Nihilus and co...but still...

when you were controlling T3, the screen showed a door opening (I think the map has it labelled as an exit). Run over there and work your way through.

As we can all see from all the above comments - there are a large number of things that people want in the next KOTOR game. Something I think we can all agree on, is that the third game has to do 2 key (general) things to have a real shot at a successful game: 1. They have to keep the key features of the first 2 games that made them so successful. KOTOR 1 was such a fantastically fabulous game, but KOTOR II did a lot of things better than 1. Some little things like the ability to have 2 sets of weapons equipped and being able to switch between them (I used to have my main character have 2 sets of lightsabers - my main fighting pair, and a "droid-killing double blade", just one of many possible permutations of this functionality), and other, bigger things; like the influence system, and having different characters if you're male/female and good/evil. Obsidian/LucasArts will need to read all these forums and the reviews the first two games got to get a good feel for what they did right so they know what to keep in the games; and also (especially reviewing II) what they did wrong to not make the same mistakes. We want a solid game without so many bugs as II; we want a resolutory ending; we want it FINISHED... 2. As I mentioned in my above post - they need something new. I've read a lot of reviews on II and a lot of them complain that it feels like a spruced up carbon-copy of 1. Now, while the old addage of "if it ain' broke, don't fix it" can be applied to this; the developers will need to take note of making a NEW game. Here's a potential equivalent: Diablo -> Diablo 2. Diablo was a great game, awesome feel, etc etc. Diablo 2 was announced and everyone figured it would be a similar dungeon run - but no, they had you running across the countryside, then the dessert, then forest/marshlands/then hell/then mountains (in the expansion). This is the kind of change that III needs to go with - keep the fundamentals, but do something totally different. Someone above (I can't recall who) suggested multiple sites on a planet, I LOVE that idea. Say you land on an initial landing place of a planet (say Tatooine for example) and do a few missions around. then you eventually have to take a landspeeder (or desert skiff) to a whole nother place (Sand People village? Pit of Carkoon?) to do more missions. II did a bit of this with the Onderon/Duxn combo, that was great. If they can make something work better, or add something new - GO FOR IT! Or as Nike says: JUST DO IT!! Finally, I just had a random idea for a character - someone finds the destroyed remains of HK-47 (I know he's everyone's favourite character, but we can't have him AGAIN in the third game, neither can you have T3-M4 again) and someone (member of the party?) builds a new combat droid using some parts of HK, like remnants of the Assassin Protocols or something. The character will have a whole new personality (whatever that may be) but elements of HK keep popping up randomly; like the first time you take it into combat again humanoids, it screams out "DIE MEATBAGS!!!" and then afterwards wonders in shock why it said that I would also love to see a Twi-lek Jedi, and a Kel-Dor...and of course...A WOOKIE!!! cheers Pantherus

The fact of the matter is - with so much variety in the history of the games; there is no way the developers will get 100% of people in support of what they do. A lot of people are asking for returns of previous characters - but the game HAS to have a lot of new personalities in it or it will be doomed to be a rehash of the originals; have some of the originals come back/appear in cameo roles by all means - but don't have the same old party people back again. They also have to look very closely of the failings of the previous games (much moreso KOTORII than I) and do their best to avoid/rectify them. To that extent - a few "what they should include"'s for KOTOR III from my perspective: - cameo scenes and appearances from the first 2 games, be they locations, characters, quotes, anecdotes, prophesies - anything. Make them funny, and make them fit. This will make the player feel a connection to the original games, while not feeling repetitious and rehashed. - have the different fighting styles (saber and force styles) actually LOOK different - what I wouldn't give to watch a lightsaber fight with one and/or both of the combatants moving like Yoda in episodes 2 and 3. They don't have to have a lot of different looking swings/strikes per style (and don't have to have that many styles either...) just make them look reasonably different from the other and actually make players see what they're choosing as a style (I for one barely noticed what style I was using most of the game...) - more variety in character generation. come on people - who wouldn't want to play the game as a Kel-dor, or Twi'lek, or even a wookie!! (OK - that might be a little far stretched in continousy). The Star Wars RPG system (and Galaxies i've heard...) allows for virtually any race to be played, so it can be done. The restriction will be on plot story and continousy (and a canon storyline), which I'll outline ideas for further below. also things like: more starting classes (be a tech-specialist for example), body customisation...MORE! - keep the influence system from II - but bigger. Have things more spectacular happen if you get really low on influence with someone, have ways to gain influence for both ways (i.e. even the the goody-goody character can have influence gained in dark side ways - this will allow for much more expansive characters and give you a bit more of a "as you like it" feel. i think there was so more much that could've been done in II with those characters and some of them fell completely flat (mira, mandalore, visas...) with very little feeling of accomplishment in finishing their influence sub-plot (except training Mira as a Jedi). Storyline, plot- and character-development are all important in a good RPG - something 1 did beautifully. Also - have people's changing alignment actually come out in their characters...I realise that this will drastically increase the complexity for designers, but i always found it hard to swallow that even though their alignment showed as drastically evil, their responses and general demeanor still reflected a good-guy... - more minigames, and more appropriate benefits. things like lightsaber duelling to increase your skills, swoop racing increases you reactions, target practice improves shooting...so many possibilities...I enjoyed the swoop racing and gun shooting in 1 - but the racing got pretty tedious after a little while...pazaak was OK in 2..but just OK... - a plot twist!!! I cannot stress this enough!! any RPG fans who played the games remember the feeling they got in Baldur's Gate when they found out ***possible spoilers if you haven't played them...*** , even more so in KOTOR 1 when you find out - my heart was pounding like anything when that happened the first time for me - it was fantastic! if Obsidian want KOTOR III to be a cult favourite (as 1 is) then they need a massive pull that is the ultimate twist. - more varied characters for NPCs. I wonder if people found, like me, that there were just too many humans there, and wanting more aliens - is anyone else on that boat too? - increase party size to have 4 at a time instead of three, and more to choose from - more more more!!! Now - regarding the storyline - how can you progress the star wars universe, maintain a level of canon for future-based stories that have already been made, and yet come up with a whole new idea that works? KOTOR 1 was fantastic - 2 i feel fell down somewhat. 3 needs to stand tall...here's my 2c on it: - a lot of people are saying "you should play as revan and/or the exile!!" - this is bollocks. One of the biggest complaints I've read/heard about KOTOR II is that it didn't feel very different to the first game. If you play again as Revan in III, people are going to feel cheated - there HAS to be something new come out of this game. - possible base story - The Lost Jedi (Those trained as Jedi in KOTOR 2) are working to reform the Jedi order in the absence of the Exile and any other Jedi. Main character is (or can become maybe?) an initiate into the new academy. This is a pretty simple base, it is pretty unoriginal (both KOTOR and Jedi Academy do the same thing) - but it's solid, allows for in-game training as a Jedi, and provides a base to move from. Alternatively you could just be your average "force sensitive" that these guys pick up in their attempts to find their way as Jedi without their teacher. Using the Lost Jedi (I got this off the Star Wars Wiki by the way...) as a foundation is pretty much the only way to go with it to maintain storyline. The villians almost has to be the "True Sith" that Revan and the Exile were investigating - if nothing else to ensure that KOTOR II doesn't wind up looking even more fragmented than it already does. Possibly the hero(ine?) could be initially from the place where these True Sith are from? this could be the basis of their key importance (and thus why they're the main character...) - the ending MUST end significantly. there are things that both 1 and 2 did really well in their endings: 1 had a solid storyline finish, while 2 detailed "what happens now" for the party members (though not all of them). KOTOR III should do BOTH of these. I have to say that my favourite kind of finish to a movie is one that resolves everything, AND details what happened to the characters afterwards, even if just showing their portrait and giving a blurb ("Jason went on to become a great Jedi Knight...") and it really gives a sense of understanding of the greating world of the movie/game. Sure you can say "but it leaves it open for a sequel" but can anyone really say they were happy with 2's ending? and talking about a sequel is all well and good - but we're going on 3 years later with KOTOR and sequel hasn't come... - intertwining backstories are always good. I though it was fantastic that Bao-Dur served under the Exile in the wars, things like that are almost always more enriching in a storyline. Finally - and this is way out of mid-field - how about making a PREQUEL to the games? Be a Jedi who was around when Revan and Malak were Padawans? even earlier? there's a lot of time before KOTOR 1 came out... Please feel free to reply/argue any of this, it always makes for good discussion and hopefully we give the lovely folks at Obsidian something to think about for what should likely be a wonderful game. cheers Pantherus