Epaminondas

This is basically where I stand. There is no way to implement a romance on a creative level without ending up pandering to ever increasingly marginal interests. At some point, you get what someone mentioned up above, a whole slew of extremely shallow minigames in order to woo npcs. EDIT: I actually think they should have the PC married to someone already and then the minigame can be NPCs trying to seduce you. You have maintain enough willpower (on a scale, of course) or you fall under his/her/its spell and cheat on your partner. Then, when your lovely wife smells the other girl on your person, you can role-play either coming clean and pleading with her to stay with you or making a skill check for lying.

brb, im gonna try this out at work. Well... did it work? :huge grin:

I don't know if this counts as a favorite moment or a favorite item. Pale Justice from Icewind Dale 2. I didn't even realize that it was magic the first run. The second run, I was more careful. Plain looking sword that is brutally good. Best back story too: "Justice always pales in comparison to vanity and ostentatious displays of power. I expected Tyr to manifest his divine will in this blade with lightning and fire. I should have remembered how the blade was given to me... with simple charity and humility. Justice is the right of every man, no matter how rich or poor, no matter how educated or ignorant. It should be found as often in the fields of farmers as it is in the fields of battle."

Sure folks in this board sometimes present things as if they're talking for a larger group. That doesn't matter. They're just advocating their position. Whatever argument works best for them is perfectly legitimate, but better arguments (or more persuasive which isn't exactly the same) will generally win out over bad ones. I will always advocate for the design team to follow a creative vision. I don't want romances, but I would much rather see a game with romances that were central to the game than a half-assed hackneyed game without them. That's why I always take these threads with a grain of salt. I guess I've changed over the years because I used to be more fervent in my contempt of romances but now I just wait to judge until I see how the game plays.

"*Know* that when death comes for you, *know* that I shall meets its blade with mine. *Know* that when all dies around you, *know* I shall live for your sake." "When we die, Dak'kon, it shall be the same death. It shall be the Pronouncement of Two Deaths As One."

"Funny. That was your first wish."

Yeah, that's annoying made moreso by the fact that there's tons of stuff in there ranging from named junk, a fluctuating assortment of artefact pieces, and then odds and ends that I don't want to dump but for which I have no known use. Hell, I'm impressed by the library. Let me put some of this stuff into a museum. Of course, I should be able to make use of any piece as needed, but in the interim, it could serve to show off the prowess of my kingdom as well as provide a source of pride and hope for my subjects. EDIT: And I would also say that it's maddening to have the game ask if I want anything out of my stash when I go into my royal bedchambers to sleep. I know games these days have to pander to every possible sexual behavior, but there's something equally sinister, strange, and dangerous about wanting to bring my assortment of weapons and armor into bed with me. EDIT 2: I can't kill Jaethal. I decided to back Ennio and it turns out that Jaethal is a new TNO. What the ****? This is stupid. It's game ending. I guess I could just time to leave while she's still getting hacked down by the Phrasmaites and they can stay there for eternity, but this is extremely bad game design. Might be a clever way to end a novel, but allowing the player to get into an endless combat loop is just stupid. Is there something I missed that allows me to finish her off for good, or do I have to reload. What happens if I just leave her there?

Holy crap! That crown looks goofy as hell, but it's got some pretty sweet stats. What I don't get is this: his crown could sell for 10,000g. The headband of vast intelligence +6 he previously wore could sell for 17,500g. The headband is literally only a third of the benefit of the crown, and that's not even counting the additional buff. Anyhow, I have this thing I've been doing for years... decades at this point I guess. I don't sell named items, even if they suck or I don't have a character that needs them. I kind of wish that they'd put in some trophy cases to display some of this spectacular junk. The pally only plate mail, for example, does me no good and I don't know if I'll ever find a Paladin joinable NPC. I probably should just offload the lot and buy more BPs.

I tend to think that these things are important because we make them so. If someone played the game without knowing or caring whether there was a romance, he or she would most likely be put off by a bad effort. ...Or impressed by a good one. I agree with the folks who don't want a romance and for the reasons they don't want one. ...But demanding a ban on romances because catering to the public for a romance denies creative authority to the design team is the same as demanding inclusion of a romance. What we should demand is that whatever creative juices we've hitherto enjoyed should have free reign to create something equally beloved in the future. That means trusting the design team. Romances aren't bad in and of themselves. They are only as bad as their execution, and that execution based on the bedrock of pleasing every minute faction is what's wrong. Like the fellow said up above, and pardon me but it's far too late and I'm far too tired to look, but making a whole slew of shallow and lame romances in order to appease every taste is simply a waste of time. Making one or two that doesn't impose itself on the player is worthy of the effort.

To be fair, I've thought that romances have gotten to the point where I don't mind them. Mostly, they're possible, but you don't feel pressured to pursue them. I even got into a romance with the scarred chick in Pathfinder briefly just to check it out. I'm also not averse to a romance in a game if the story is good and it doesn't feel trite. Like neotemplar said up above, a good story is a good story. That's why, even being straight and probably about as white bread as they come (and certainly straight laced), I still enjoyed the Sens8 series. Weird, but it was well done. I don't mind romance and I don't mind if it's between non-traditional partners. It's just that if they're going to do it, do it well. For right now, I'm glad romance got the ol' heave ho, but it's not like I would refuse to buy the game based on some side romance stuff that isn't obtrusive and isn't pushed on me. I actually would like romantic elements, but I already mentioned some of those up above.

Romances in video games have never been, in my experience, 'grown-up.' Fighting over whether you're going to do either something fun for Thanksgiving or go to the in-laws for a lackluster meal... that's almost there. Not fighting over it in the first place because you know how important it is to your wife of 22 years... that's grown up. I'm never going to a be a hero who defeats a whole slew of bad guys. That's something I can only achieve in a video game. Being a loyal and faithful husband? I've got that covered in real life. The video game just doesn't do much for me in that regard. I don't hate video game romances as an idea. I just hate the pathetic attempts I've seen in video games.

I'm new to the discussion and it's late enough I can't read all the posts. Where I reiterate a previous post, take mine as affirming the point of view. The only romances I've enjoyed is the PS:T 'romances' with Annah, Fall-From-Grace. and Deionarra. I don't want any sappy baby in the inventory romances from the game, but romances like the heat and physical attraction (without the physical act) of Annah, the mystery (and frustration) of Fall-From-Grace, or the actual soul grinding (and navel gazing) of Deionarra appeal to me. Can't make it with a ghost, but there's always Jaethal from Kingmaker if you're into necrophilia.

This is always what stops me. I only adjust stats and whatnot after I've finished the game at least once. Probably silly on my part, but I think sometimes it's good to have self-imposed boundaries. (None of this is to be critical of folks who do edits the save files, such as ShadySands.)

Aw well, I'm both illiterate and a little slow.

Note: I didn't see a thread and searching for outer worlds didn't pop up with one. I figure either there's an official forum hosted by the publisher or I just didn't find the thread. In that case, I guess just shut down my little thread. https://www.engadget.com/2018/12/06/obsidian-the-outer-worlds/ Anyway, I heard about this game last night from a friend. I wasn't where I could easily hear the trailer, but the second I got home today watched it. When my buddy first brought it up and showed me the webpage on it, I was so excited at the thought that it was a Firefly game (curse you, you rat bastards at Fox!). Then he explained that it was a new IP and kind of a successor to Fallout with a bit of Bioshock mixed in. When the trailer first started I was briefly disappointed because I thought it was a Bioshock clone. However, it quickly became clear that it's more. I'm so excited about this game. It's not even that they bring up Fallout. Everyone seems to try to use old skool titles to get us to buy into new games. Well, this game looks good Fallout or not. The humor so far looks spot on. The scene with the woman being traumatized upon seeing someone murdered in front of her is a breath of fresh air. In any sort of working society, seeing folks nonchalantly slaughtered will cause people distress. I was so excited when Pillars first shipped, and I enjoyed the game quite a bit, but I've only played it once. Fallout New Vegas, however, is on my all time favorites list. It's simply superb. It looks like this one might be even better because the writing won't be hampered by Bethesda's pathetic dialogue routines that I'm certain were meant to make the world feel more populated but had the opposite effect for me. I know that I have to temper my expectations, so I probably won't even follow the game as such. I'll just keep myself posted about the disposition of the development. Anyhow, I'm sure I've probably posted this in the wrong place or something, so just move or close it and let me know.

Most of these build questions don't really matter except for difficulties higher than normal and there's even a lot of leeway on Challenging once you get a few levels under your belt. I do agree about the pregen stuff. Usually, I figure that a few points one way or the other don't matter much, but 32 points is a pretty stiff climb. Anyhow, I took care of a bunch of stuff. Apparently, I'm working for barbarian equal rights but that doesn't bother me. The former chieftan is an idiot anyway and the new chieftain at least has some brains and prudence. This time around, my kingdom is in much better shape. I still don't make money worth a damn, but I'm finally a king and I rake in over 55 BP a week. I've pumped a huge amount of my own gold into my kingdom, though. Most recent buy was a little over 2500BP so I could clear somethings.

So I came to a fork in the road. One was to pursue a traitor and the other was to follow an idiot. The traitor left me wondering what happened. The idiot just pissed me off. Of course, the idiot pisses me off every time she speaks, but I guess at least she's in character. I went through this whole thing to check out the traitor and then went up to the idiot. The quest log tells me that I need to hurry, but there's no timer. When I get there, I'm getting grief for getting there too late. So, I reload from before I go to the traitor and instead head to the idiot. There was one very big difference in the idiot's outcome when I went there first. I'm currently doing the traitor's path next and *so far* everything seems to be the same. I hope I don't get screwed out of his services because I need him as advisor. I'll have to redo it if I can't get him back. Also, I think it was Manveru who said I should make Octavia an arcane trickster. I don't see a huge difference in battles so far, but she's way more generally useful as an arcane trickster. Thought I would give that a shout out.

Aw, who cares if they've posted it? I say ask away! I guess you want int for feat choices and skills? Don't get me wrong. Others have much more experience with the game, but I don't see a tremendous amount of utility for int for a pally. On the other hand, I'm such a noob I'd wait for more learned voices. Meanwhile, in my game, I have renewed love of Tristan. Not romantic love, but a hearty "You glorious bastard, you're even better with flaws!" However, I'm pissed that I'm currently denied his services. The thing is, I'm not too pissed off. I'm playing a good guy. For that to mean anything in the game, it requires that I take my lumps when they come my way. As an aside, I also *never* steal from villages and inns and random houses. I *do* take stuff from barbarian camps, but only after they pick and leave and say they're not coming back.

Might want to set her on the radiator for a while first.

This game is huuuuuge. The battles are trivial on normal level, which I like. I do think that the lower difficulty does mean the player can get complacent in terms of tactics, but I still have fun. The thundervine fight took a little planning because I couldn't just steamroll it. Otherwise, there aren't any painful fights for some time now. It's hugely fun. My pathetic kingdom, after hours of playing, only produces 47 BP a week. Getting enough BP to do stuff is excruciating. The kingdom building stuff is more fun when you know how to approach it and know how the Ancient Curses work. My people are at 11th level right now and I think the game caps at 20th. The size of this game is truly exceptional, especially for a single player game. I haven't been this into a new release for years now. Some specific things I really like: 1. The occasional roll play moments where players make choices by reading text on an illustrated background. It's a nice changeup from going into an area and clearing it. 2. The Valerie romance is great. Not really for the romance part, which is like all the rest. As someone who never engages in game romances, I actually did with Valerie because she's what every man wants... damaged goods. I had no interest until she earned her cool scar. 3. The writing is generally good and sometimes quite funny. The grammar is all over the map, but I'm forgiving and the good outweighs the bad. 4. I like the camp banter. I know some might not, but the fact that they limit it to two exchanges (or sometimes one statement in two parts if only one character speaks) is great. Gives flavor while being short and unobtrusive. 5. I love how they handle evil and good. Tristan's good is over the top, but the voice actor does a great job making him believable. Gotta love someone who's combat initiation lines are things like "I shall end this suffering" and "I'll try to make this quick." Conversely, Regongar is chaotic evil done right. They did a great job showing how chaotic evil can actually function in society. Harrim depicts a chaotic neutral character that isn't simply chaotic crazy. I'm sometimes even fond of the goblin, evil little runt that he is.

It *is* a great game, Volourn, but that doesn't mean it couldn't stand some improvement. I can't think of any game I've played that couldn't use some improvement. This was an amazingly ambitious undertaking of a well-known module from an established pen and paper game. They *had* to include kingdom building and, while I hate some things about it, I still enjoy kingdom building. So, yes, they did lose some potential in the implementation, but I tend to be very forgiving of the deficiencies. Hasn't prevented me from playing so far, but I don't deny the complaints I've heard about how kingdom building operates in the game..

It's just a shame to see so much lost potential. The quest timers aren't so bad, but the combination with the kingdom timers is a real pain in the ass. If you leave your barony, then you can't do anything with your kingdom. That makes sense. I mean, even if you leave folks in charge, people will still just let events pass. You can wait to leave until the first of the month because any events that pop up in a month are open until the first of the next month. Fine, but if you're gone until the end of the month, you have to assign people to events and some of those people are the only ones who can do anything with other events, so you could still end up having events slam you. If you assign someone to a project that takes more than a month, that will ensure that you have him/her available for events that happen during the month. If you want to train someone, you'd best do it at the beginning of the month also, but then that takes away from time that you need to spend outside your barony. It's not insurmountable, of course. It's simply poorly done. The adventuring is fun. Even with the bugs, and I've encountered them, the RPG aspect of the game is excellent.

Thanks! I see you pass out information just as much as you dole out free games. I really wish the kingdom building weren't so much a pain in the ass. Still, I can't force myself to go auto on it, so I can't complain about the painful parts.

I should have. I have this weird quirk where I don't like to change difficulty in the middle of a game. Normally, I just restart. Either that or if something's vexing me, I keep the save at that difficulty and then start a new game the next step down and have fun for a while before going back. In this case, I also wanted to restart because I was debating someone about using Octavia as a rogue or an arcane trickster. I figured I'd see how it works on the other side, so I had some other issues. Also, the portraits completely suck, but I don't want to use a mod on a game that gets (and needs) such constant patching.

This game is one of the best I've played in a long time. Sunk a lot of hours that I didn't have into it. However, having lost to a kingdom event, I restarted on challenging. So far, Challenging isn't too bad. I've had to rethink a few battles and get just the right spells. It is, as it says, challenging. It's not brutal nor is it unplayable. However, that's the rub. I used to like a great challenge in all my fights. Now, I just like having a challenge in a couple of key fights. I think I'll restart on normal again. I know I know, I'm a wimp, but I guess I've become *gasp* a casual player.