Tlantl

This is a trend in D&D games and since more than half of the games ie engine games are D&D based there is reason to be concerned. I guess DDO has taken it a bit farther than NWN 2 and PnP D&D but it is a concern. The last Obsidian games I played ( still play) are FO:NV and NWN 2 so I can only go by those games. one of them does have this issue the other does not. From what I've heard, the Devs aren't enamored of D&D style rules so I would imagine that they won't be so inclined toward a lot of immunities or resistances but I'm not a mind reader and I do want to avoid silver axiomatic flaming greatswords if I can.

I said no but the very rare or unique critter needing a magical weapon to inflict damage wouldn't be the worst thing they could do. Having a massive list of weapon and material types to be effective against different critters is very bad in my opinion. Once in a while I wouldn't mind having to fall back to find the right weapon to kill a monster, but having to carry a golf bag filled with dozens of long swords made from dozens of special materials would be disappointing, Neverwinter nights 2 (and D&D in general) does this a lot and it's very irritating. I would just as soon use the wrong weapon in a fight than to have to weigh myself down with half a dozen of the same weapon (or have to spend the time looking for the right item in a bag's inventory, another issue I have with NWN 2).

I'm all for it. It's nice to have pre-made characters for the first run through, but it's a game and for me much of the fun in playing games comes from playing them my way. If I want an all fighter group why can't I have six fighters. If I want to avoid npc complications without ignoring dialogue and situations that trigger inane responses or dramatic cut scenes, then making npcs of my own would do that. One of the things I hated about the throne of Baal was Jahera and the crap she brought to the game. There were others but she stands out as the poster child for this.

You'd figure that in a setting where you and I can take a class or profession where we can use magic, then just about anyone in the world could too. Developing technology is a long arduous and costly endeavor and would not be taken on by the guy on the street any more than learning magic. If magic exists and guns don't it is highly unlikely that guns will evolve. With that said I reiterate my position that I would have no problem with the things if the reason they existed and their place in the game made sense. If dwarves use magic, they have no reason to make guns. If gnomes exist and use spells, then they too have no need to invent them. If a culture exists that has banned, outlawed, or otherwise done away with magic, then they would have reason to experiment with other means of mass destruction such as black powder and explosives, especially if they are in conflict with a society or culture that uses magic against them. It all depends on the circumstances involved with the development of the technology and it's impact on the world. I certainly wouldn't expect to see modern era weapons side by side with stone aged equipment, although some individuals might prefer a crossbow to a gun in some situations.

I think you are missing the point here. The ease at which a person can use a technology has nothing to do with whether it exists or not. Guns are relatively easy to use but the technology behind them is rather complex, especially if you want them to be as effective as the bow or crossbow. Fire arms have existed side by side with the simpler weapons for a very long time before the technology was developed for them to be as useful or to surpass those other weapons in effectiveness. Ease of use has nothing to do with their existence or usefulness to a society.

The real question here is what kind of setting do we want or expect from the game. From the little I have seen this game isn't going to support the kinds of technology necessary for sophisticated weaponry. If magic can do the same thing easier and more cheaply then the tech will never evolve. If the setting assumes different cultures from disparate areas of the planet that have had little contact then there might be a society that chose tech over magic. If done well these two could be a source of tension underlying several sub plots. Would I like to play a fantasy shooter? I might if it worked well and made a little sense, but if they added guns just to add guns then no, I don't want them included in the game.

There isn't anything specific about any of those games that piqued my interest in the project, it's the style of game itself. I played most of those games listed and had fun. The game engine and style are the most important aspect of these games not the content. That's not to say that any old crap will do, just that none of those games plots, settings, or characters are the reason I want to see another one made it's the squad based tactical game that does it for me. I'd be tickled pink if I could build all of the characters I use and never have to deal with npc's problems or idiosyncrasies if I don't feel like it.

Which for a lot of modders and those of us who use mods is reason enough.

Crates are okay. I like milk crates, but boxes are where it's at, you know like card board box, juke box, and the ever popular soap box. I'm not a big basher of breakables, I prefer to merely click on them to get at the goodies inside. I just hope the goodies ain't just random junk with a few useful or valuable trinkets in them.

I just want to see some spiders!!

Arr I see. Actually I kind of like the Elderscrolls method of rpg design. I also like the concept of NWN but the method of execution is unappealing to me. I don't like not being able to do something because the designers chose a method that is overly confining, either due to bad decisions such as NWN the first, or because of technical limitations such as NWN2. Oblivion did that too and I list them as one of the offenders for dumbing down their game. I blame the limits of the consoles for some of this and separate world cells for the rest. I can get plenty of role play from a game such as IWD, I don't need more from a bunch of bots following me around. They can have dialogue but I shouldn't be held hostage by it, especially if it is annoying or puerile. If I am to be the leader of a group I want the group to work as a unit, not start attacking the druid because some obnoxious dwarf was caught in an entangle spell. If I have to have these ***holes in my party they should at least get along. If they are plot make them mute. If this means I want a unit then so be it What I really want are characters that work as a unit. If an individual joins my group after I told that character I would help with one of their problems such as in BG I have role played with that character while she ids part of my group she needs to work with the rest, not argue because she doesn't like dwarves. Oh by the way I really enjoyed Dungeon siege 2 the party banter was easily turned off the story was stupid and the game play was fast paced. There's a hybrid RTS/RPG that I liked but I can't remember the name of it. I tried the farce called dragonstone it s*cked. I loved The Temple of Elemental evil though it ended before it should have.

tale asked I'm honestly curious. Why not just play RTS games instead if you're more interested in strategy than characters? There are even some strategy games based around RPG mechanics. The Final Fantasy Tactics games and I believe there's even a D&D Tactics game. Never said I liked rts games I said I liked the RTS style combat of IWD and BG. they have nothing to do ith the RTS model of build, mine, build, and die of the RTS. I have played these types of game and they don't do it for me, they bite really hard.

http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e It seems obvious that there are those who are easily impressed with junk. I sit at the gaming table with my 3e books scratching my head. During my last gaming session I killed the party with a monster who's CR was one level less than the group's without doing any massive damage or casting instant kill spells. Just using the full attack action and the creatures own special abilities. The absolute need to carry more equipment than a small army just to be able to overcome damage resistance, spell resistance, energy resistance, and to augment the player's skill, feats, and ability scores is just plain stupid. Why must I give a party of 10th level characters 80,000 in gold just because they are 10th level. (77,314gp according to the DMG pg 54 3.5e) Where in the heck am I going to find that kind of money in a wilderness hundreds of miles away from the nearest town with enough people to have that kind of wealth. But, if the group doesn't have it they die. If I give an npc equipment to challenge the group they walk away with 20,000 in goods, before I even add henchmen (another dumb thing they did.) or other unrelated creatures who have the same outrageous treasure requirements. I know for a fact that your average player has near a million gold in assorted junk by tenth level I added it up on a DM run PC after reaching 11th level. A new, better thought out approach to the game, is something I would appreciate. The only thing I would like more is for the return to the game in it's 1e form tweaked a little to define a few of the skill and combat options a little better. I hated having to make judgement calls all the time. But the skills as they are now are pretty overwhelming which makes creating new npcs a chore. I think hating something that doesn't exist yet, is a sign of prejudicial thinking not objective thinking.

I too would like to see more strategy based role playing games like IWD and BG. I do not care for the engine now being used in NWN2 and would beg these guys to find or develop another one. (I promise to buy it.) The trend toward interactive npcs is really irritating though. I have promised to kill the dwarf in NWN2 when I finally return to it. I know some people like that added level of immersion, but I actually hate it. I didn't finish Balder's gate 2 because of it. Well that and having my character yanked from my control to slaughter my companions. I would love to play a nice game where I can create a party of my choosing and play it through with out having a bunch of npcs bickering like little children. I let Jehera (?) die in BG2 when she became unbearable over losing her coward husband. I guess some of the characters were okay as I think about them but having to drag along a bunch of useless characters rather than the ones I want really sucks.

I meant if Obsidian was chosen by the publisher to make a game based on the new rules, not that they would become the license holder. I'm sure Atari will want to keep the only license that actually pays the bills. I meant that should Obsidian Entertainment be chosen to make the game that they throw away the worthless engine they tried valiantly to salvage and start anew. I am sure taking this rout would give us a better game over all, though we wouldn't see anything until around 2012 or 13. @sand: I feel your pain. I do think it is a little premature to be denigrating something that doesn't exist yet. Your beloved 3e is a broken mess. Aside from trying to squeeze more money from us, the Dev team at WotC are also trying to fix the broken axle, replace the wheel, and lessen the weight of a flawed system. I certainly hope that they do find a way to remove the suck from many of the games sub systems such as the absolute need to rely upon dozens of different magic items, the really broken economic system, the insanely stupid CR system, and Make the races of the game more useful and compelling. If this actually works I'll probably burn the fifteen or so books I own for 3e.

While looking over the press releases for the 4th edition dungeons and dragons game, due out next year, I noticed that there was an ambiguous mention that there has been no video game licenses awarded yet. It makes sense since the game is still being invented. But who, logically, would get this if not Obsidian (or perhaps Bioware. Not my first choice). I think the engine itself needs to head for the hopper. A new and vastly less restrictive game environment would be welcomed by all. The walkmesh insanity and the tiny cramped exterior areas that kill many machines really needs help. I sincerely hope that this company gets the nod for the first 4e D&D video game and I really hope it is light years from the disappointment that NWN2 is for me and dozens of other people. Oh and Please loose the name (NWN) it really bites.

I saw your post and I thought of this; http://www.silverfall-game.com/en/news.php. I found it a few weeks ago and plan on picking it up when it's released.