Braven

So FoD is actually +36 accuracy at level 16? That really helps out the spamable powers, like torment reach, since you can use it over and over for every attack compared with the encounter limited attacks like FoD. It is basically a passive +16 accuracy buff.

I didn’t know FoA worked that way, but that accuracy bonus also applies to the deflection primary attack too. I tested out Tidefall at level 8 and both attacks created by FoA are 8 accuracy higher than auto-attacks. At level 16, having +16 additional accuracy on your most important attacks is a huge boon. Tidefall is quite powerful with this build. I like it better than the two-weapon version, I think. Attacks are a bit slower, but they do a lot of damage, particularly with the additional shock lash talent. It also provides for consistent healing that is really noticible against high DR enemies. With low armor penalty, high dex, and swift strikes, recovery is still pretty short.

Raedric is a difficult area early in the game. I recommend just skiping it until later on after you have gained at least a couple more levels. There is no -need- to ever go there, so just wait until your party is ready. If you want, you can poke around the castle for loot to sell. It is a good source of coin early on.

By the way, does anyone know if the interrupting blows talent works with rooting pain? Or does rooting pain just always interrupt? Just thinking that could be a really nice talent for monks because of the AOE attack.

I have done the flail low perception fighter before and it works good. Just use barrage before unleashing all Charges or Knockdowns. Wonder if novices suffering would be better DPS than flails.

Priest can be good with low perception if you focus on buffing spells only, which is easy to do since they have so many. Those do not have any accuracy roll. With the +10 accuracy class talent, they have the same base accuracy as a fighter/rogue. I think inspiring radiance can also be turned into an accuraccy buffer to with a talent too. Most classes work with low perception (or low int, etc), just need to pick different abilities. Sure, you will miss out on some spectacular attack powers, but everything is a give and take.

I tested. The +12 ACC does not work work with FoA (or stun attack) for the secondary roll against fortitude.

Oh, you are right, it is the rapier Mosquito I was thinking of. I will correct my post. Thanks!

It is a little strange ignoring the monk staple of weapon lashes. This build is pretty much the opposite of Monksterlash. I do like NOT having Torments Reach, as I am kind of tired of that ability. It is also nice to not -need- to have survival. The accuracy boost it can provide can still be helpful, but athletics is surprisingly good too. There is a nice window of time to use second wind or a potion right after knocking everyone prone. Every 16 endurance is another 10-20 second prone so every bit helps. Having no armor speeds up all types of recovery so it doesn't feel like you waste much time using non-attack actions. I thought the +12 accuracy of using only one weapon didn't work with FoA, but I never tried it. Does the One-Handed Talent work? Both of those combined could be significant considering how important accuracy is for this whole build. The biggest danger is whiffing on the FoA as that can mean game over. Also, boss enemies are much harder to hit and have sky-high fortitude. I don't think this build really work at all for dragon slaying... but the good accuracy and intelligence is great for spamming scrolls of confusion for those special cases. I am interested to see if the Valiant weapon enchant accuracy bonus works with FoA. +17 Accuracy (fighting spirit and Valiant enchant) can make a big difference. I can totally see using all three weapon styles, depending on the encounter. Going against higher Fortitude, use one weapon. Killing several weak enemies (or slow ones)? Use two weapons. Going against high DR targets (or few in number)? Use Tidefall to break through the armor and continue damaging them when they are knocked back. One reason I like two weapons is that sometimes it is better to interrupt-lock an enemy. Enemies FoA tends to be bad against (high fortitude brutes), interruption is very good against (they are usually slow, heavy hitters with low concentration ratings). One of the stiletto weapons provides both a really good interrupt rating and draining and can be bought at the start of Act 2. I also find that low concentration is less of a problem with dual-wielding, but maybe it is just my imagination.

Like my fighter build, the Glass Tsunami, this character is based on having endurance regeneration that keeps pace with damage received. However, instead of accomplishing this using limited duration, per encounter abilities, this build uses tactics that are self-sustaining. The key is using endurance draining weapons at max DPS (for max regeneration), disabling your enemies with all the wounds you receive, and to avoid getting disabled yourself. The main reason I picked Monk for this is: 1) Monks benefit the most from health regeneration due to wounds mechanics. Not only do you get health, but you get "mana" too. They also have a nice health multiplier for a large total health pool. 2) Monks have a couple abilities to help minimize the impact of enemy debuffs and disables. It is really important to not get disabled or de-buffed with this build because that will stop the endurance regeneration completely and you completely rely on it since you are a glass cannon. 3) Monks have the most efficient damage mitigation of all the melee class with the amazing Force of Anquish ability. This is important since you need to lower damage input since the regeneration from draining weapons takes time to add up. Ciphers have charm and mental binding, but they can't be spammed like FoA. Fighters have knockdown, but it is only 3 per encounter and has half the duration. FoA has a long duration, can be used dozens of times per encounter, and Monks have ways to increase the effective accuracy to make sure those Prones stick. This build really puts the "Tsunami" into the "Glass Tsunami" moniker because you end up literally pushing your enemies everywhere while wearing almost no armor. So without further ado... ---------------- GENERAL STAT/EQUIPMENT ---------------- Race: Human (This is actually pretty important because we will be using the racial ability fighting spirit to boost our FoA prone accuracy) Background: Your choice (I recommend having decent lore since this monk is a great scroll caster. Athletics is also quite useful) My Starting Stats (Might/Con/Dex can be tweaked to your liking) Might: 17 Con: 5 (Ideally, you want enough to not get one-shot, but always be under 50% endurance before you use your first FOA.) Dex: 15 Per: 18 Int: 19 Res: 4 Weapon: Two one-handed endurance draining (keep all you find so you can switch weapon sets based on enemy DR resistances) Cladhaliath Spear is particularly good as explained later and is probably the best option. Tidefall is an excellent option if you want to go the two-handed route with speed increasing potions. There is also a rapier which has both high interrupt and draining. Armor: Robe (or none). (unless a special enchantment is needed like the stun/prone protection hide armor) Abilities/Talents: 1) Swift Strikes 2) Veteran's Recovery 3) FoA 4) Lesser Wounds (good early when your endurance pool cannot support many wounds yet and good for regeneration efficiency throughout the game) 5) Stunning Strikes 6) Two weapon style 7) Rooting Pain (gives you a bit of breathing room to unleash FoA by interrupting your enemies after they hit you. Minimizes the downsides of your low resolve) Gallant's Focus (if solo; otherwise it doesn't stack with other characters' abilities. Monk however has no class accuracy buffing abilities so it is great) 9) Enervating Blows 10) Weapon focus Peasant (as soon as you get Cladhaliath, since that is your end game weapon and FoA weapon) 11) Clarity of Agony 12) Binding wounds (increases your available health pool tremendously. Before this talent, use potions as needed) 13) Crucible of Suffering 14) Lightning Lash OR Vulnerable attack OR Apprentice sneak attack 15) Duality of Mortal Presence 16) Lightning Lash OR Vulnerable attack OR Apprentice sneak attack Equipment Ideas: Head: Lavendar Wreath (sickening effect increases FoA accuracy by 14). Another good hat is the one with charm spell-binding for those resistant to prone. Hand: Accuracy Gauntlets (accuracy is really important to this build) Belt: Blunting Belt (always effective because of your low DR), Belt of Chimes (big concentration boost. Good against packs of fast enemies). Looped Rope is helpful in the late game to avoid disabling status effects. Ring: The +4 Int one is nice late game since it is a key stat of the build. I like ring of protection too, since spells pack too big of a punch with a crit hit. Amulet: Lost Periapt of the winding path gives a healing spell and concentration boost which are both great for this character. Boots: Shod in faith. Can never have too much endurance regen ----------------------------- Standard Tactics ----------------------------- The goal is to attack as fast as possible (to heal faster) and to use all of your wounds on FoA as soon as you get them. Swift Strikes is useful for leftover wounds after your enemies are all prone in order to speed up regeneration and also to use against high-fortitude enemies to interrupt-lock them. Damage reduction is not important because enemies can't hit you when they are lying on the ground. Also, the quicker you gather wounds, the quicker you can knock them down again before they start interrupting you and giving you nasty status effects. That said, I would take DR if it has no speed penalty, like the unique belt in the first town. Your typical battle lifecycle follows this cycle: Gather Wounds->Knock Everything Prone->Regenerate health by hitting them while they are down->repeat until everything is dead You might think it is crazy to wear plain clothing or just a robe while also having low CON and RES stats. However, I found that the health loss was not that bad. This is because your enemies spend most of the encounter with their face in the mud because your excellent FoA accuracy and duration. You are only really taking heavy damage at the very start of each encounter. Armor does not help you at all for much of the battle, but lower attack recovery time is extremely important all the time. That said, the first few levels I recommend heavy armor until your endurance pool builds up high enough to not get one-shot before you can get off all of your needed FoA attacks. Your stunning fist attack (and charm equipment) should be carefully used for: 1) enemies immune to prone. 2) Recover from bad dice rolling with FOA 3) Immediately disable a major threat. Finally, don't chase after the prone enemies (unless they are all prone). Let them come back to you when they are ready and focus on the ones still standing so you can put your high interrupt rating to work. ---------------------------- INCREASING ACCURACY ---------------------------- The whole build relies on disabling enemies. If you can't disable them, you will die very quickly because of the low CON, RES, and armor. Luckily, we have several ways to increase our accuracy further. 1) Max Perception. This not only helps your accuracy, but also helps your interrupts which is needed for high-fortitude enemies (trolls, ogres, etc) 2) Enervating Blows. Your best accuracy booster. Lowers enemy fortitude by 28 and also lowers Will a lot for alternate disables like charm equipment or confusion scrolls. Because it requires a critical hit, having high accuracy in general is even more important. Critical hits make FoA much more efficient by increasing the already long duration by an additional 50%. Long prone durations are needed to give yourself time to regenerate endurance so you can in turn create more wounds and perpetuate the cycle. 3) Sickening Aura: Passively lowers enemy fortitude by 14, generally righty before you hit them. You want to wear the Lavender Wreath hat for the whole game after you find it. 4) Fighting Spirit: This increases your accuracy by 7 (and damage by 15%) for around 30 seconds and triggers reliably near the start of every encounter right when you need it most, just before you unleash a bunch of FoA attacks and need to pound them into submission for regeneration. 5) Accuracy gauntlets. Accuracy is probably more important than anything else you could put in the gloves slot and zero recovery is easy to get without the speed gloves. 6) Cladhaliath Spear. I have confirmed that weapon accuracy bonuses work with FoA. This makes Cladhaliath the best weapon to have in your primary weapon slot because it is has an inherent +5 accuracy bonus for being a spear. Further, you can customize it to both have endurance draining and another +10 accuracy (and +25% damage) with the valiant enchantment. This triggers when you are under 50% endurance (which you will be after gathering your initial wounds right before unleashing FoA spam). ----------------------------- ADDITIONAL STAT THOUGHTS ------------------------------ You want to place all stats you can spare into damage dealing since that is also your health regeneration and mana pool engine. Might is good for helping passive healing from Veterans Recovery early on and TideFall's wounding if you go that route. However, this does not need to be maxed out since the utility of the other stats are more important. Dex should be fairly high since it helps minimize the concentration problems of low resolve and also get the series of FoA out very quickly, important when facing larger numbers of enemies. Perception is really important early for accuracy to ensure that your don't miss with FoA which is a really big deal for this build. It is also great for interrupting high fortitude enemies that you can't prone effectively (they tend to be slow and easy to chain-interrupt to death. Think Trolls, Ogres, etc). For CON, you want as little as possible but enough so that enemies don't drop you before you are able to get all of your FoA attacks out. Resolve is the least important. Deflection and concentration don't matter when most of your enemies are lying prone on the ground. Intelligence should be maxed since it makes your wound abilities more efficient allowing the "prone/regenerate-endurance" cycle to be more self-sustaining. ----------------------------- TIDEFALL? ----------------------------- I haven't tried out Tidefall with this strategy, but it seems like it would work really well particularly with speed boosting consumables. Usually I don't like Tidefall with high intelligence because it takes forever for the wounding to tick through and much of the time it ends up wasted because they are dead. However with FoA, the long duration wound can tick through while they are prone making it a really efficient source of damage. Also, FoA is primary-attack only so it doesn't benefit from dual wielding like most abilities. You might want to use both Tidefall and dual weapons and switch based on the type of enemy. High DR: Tidefall, Low DR (or fast enemies): dual weapons ----------------------------- WHY NO TURNING WHEEL? ----------------------------- Does anyone know if lashes affect draining weapons endurance regeneration? I suspect no which is partly why I avoided lashes like turning wheel and has the lightning lash as a low priority. Also, most of the time I have no wounds when attacking because I use them on FoA immediately and when everything is prone, you don't gain wounds.

Just would like to add that the little known “binding wounds” talent is your best friend with high endurance regeneration builds and is optimally effective with high Might and Con stats, since they both increase the amount it adds to The health pool. The 40% listed is misleading too, as I have seen it restore much more than that. Maybe healing multipliers affect it. It can restore hundreds (or thousands) of points of health and saves you from having to chug potions which only restore a relatively smaller amount, takes longer to use, and uses up quick action space and resources. It is a fast action and can be used in the middle of a battle too.

Does anyone know how +x accuracy when targeting the same enemy as a party member works with carnage (and AOE effects). Is it based on engagement? For carnage, does it only matter if the targeted enemy is engaged by an ally, or is each carnage recipient evaluated seperately. I was thinking about a build that stacks things like one handed style, hearth orlan's minir threat, dozens faction bonus, weapon enchant, etc. for maximum carnage crit-chance.

I feel like shield bashing would fit naturally as a "Shield Proficiency" modal ability that a character can optionally take. The current Pillars 2 design has modal abilities now linked to weapon proficiencies. For example, great swords unlock "Savage Attack" and short bows unlock "Rapid Shot". Perhaps shield bashing, instead of being an enchantment, could work with any shield and be activated as modal ability so you can choose whether or not to use it based on the situation. Against certain enemies, it might not be worth trying to bash them. Obviously, against a crush immune enemy, you would want to deactivate it since it would do no damage. Additionally, I think the damage and accuracy should be modified to scale with level (the current problem is that it doesn't scale well while weapons do). I also like the idea of having it target fortitude and inflict a small stun or daze effect instead of damage. That would better fit the role of the sword & board character, who is supposed to be focused on a defensive fighting style. If we just increased the damage and speed of bash, it would start taking over the dual-weapon role.

I like that idea a lot and "Rage" is a good name for it. Fits right into the barbarian class role of wanting to be in the thick of things.

Huh, I'd never considered disabling the floor traps solo like that. I always have Heodan do them all for experience before lighting all the torches (even though at that point, lighting all the torches isn't necessary). I'd also never though of returning to Cilant Lis. Usually I am ultra conservative with my Camping Supplies, although in my current playthrough I could probably have benefitted from an extra free one. Yep, you get a bit more experience by doing it solo since you are not sharing experience with a party. Also, doesn't Heodan only have 2 mechanics? Some of the floor tiles require 3 while others only require 1. To get them all, you need to level up, I think. Or maybe Heodan has the merchant background (makes sense) which would bring his mechanics skill to 3? I never tried disabling the traps with him. The camping supply doesn't really matter since the game throws all kind of money at you, but if you dislike buying them from inns (or have a house rule not to), an extra one could come in handy.

True, but don't you finish Cilant Lis with two Camping Supplies anyway? Thus, unless you rest at some point during Cilant Lis, you're going to be leaving on behind anyway. On hard, that is true. Normal allows for 4 camping supplies. Also, you can always re-enter the cave later at any point during the game and grab the 3rd camping supply. I often re-enter the cave right after the cutscene in order to disable all of the floor traps for additional experience, since you gain level 2 at that point and can increase your mechanics skill to 3. Also, resting then isn't a terrible idea since you will have the fatigue ailment after the cutscene (and can also use that level up to get survival before resting, if you didn't already have it). Of course, we are talking about very small change here, but it is interesting that you can gain more from having him hurt. If you are an evil cleric or paladin, you can even gain additional value by killing off the whole caravan because it nets you +1 cruel reputation which helps your class abilitiy. It is very difficult to do, but possible. The downside is that you lose out on a bit of loot and the magic amulet in the cave (since you can't get the waterskin to solve that puzzle).

It is actually superior to let Heodan get injured. If he is injured and complains about needing to rest when you enter the cave, he gives you a free camping supply (out of thin air). Even if you side with Calisca and don't rest, you still get to keep the camping supply. If he is not injured, you will not get the camping supply and be out 75 copper of value. Having the injury has no impact in the prologue so might as well let him get hurt.

If there were optional class talents to encourage other stat distributions, that would be nice. Maybe rogues could have a class talent to use dexterity instead of might for a damage modifier, but only if using small/fast weapons like dagger and rapiers. This wouldn't be overpowered because rogues already benefit more from big weapons because of additive modifiers and higher base damage and it takes a talent to get it. Just opens up the option for a traditional rogue to be more viable. For barbarians, maybe they get a talent to increase the range of carnage so high intellect is now an option instead of a must-have. It might be the reason some of these don't exist is more to do with how the game was programmed and how unity assets work than balance concerns.

Yeah, I like how the attributes scale evenly and that there are no "useless" stats, like in early editions of D&D. Also, that it allows for a lot of different build possibilities. I think it would be neat if attributes matches closer to what a class needs in reality, but that would reduce the build options down and create endless balance head-aches and new player confusion. I think it would be fun if: Low might penalized weapon/armor use. Instead of outright banning specific weapons, maybe it just lowers attack speed and/or accuracy to reflect that the character has a hard time holding the weapon properly. The required might to avoid a penalty various based on weapon type, and same with armor. You could opt to hold a one-handed weapon with two-hands to avoid the penalty. Heavier weapons could have higher base damage than weapons anyone can use without penalty. Low intelligence could make it so cipher powers, wizard spells, and scrolls take longer to cast to reflect the character reading slowing and stumbling over words. Low resolve could cause a character to lose hope if facing too many enemies (new despair affliction if engaged by X number of enemies). The despair affliction can can also be caused if X number of allies are killed or disabled. Also adds a failure chance for priest, druid, and chanter spells. Low constitution could lengthen the duration of physical afflictions the character is suffering from like poison, dazed, etc. Low dexterity could add a chance for random mishaps during encounters. For example, trip over your own feet and land prone for a couple seconds or dropping your weapon by accident, or your clumsiness hit an ally by mistake. Low perception could require your character to wear glasses or suffer a new affliction ("poor vision", -10 accuracy/deflection/reflex, suppressed if you also have the blind affliction). It is possible your glasses will break during a battle or get fogged up which would apply the affliction. You also get a penalty for detecting traps/secrets (though this could be compensated with mechanics). On the flip side, exceptionally high values could provide a small chance for an epic result at a related feat. High dexterity could cause a Robin-Hood-like move with a bow and arrow or Prince of Persia acrobatics in melee. Intelligence could cause a much better version of an ability or spell, complete with fanciful, unique graphics. High might could cause an enemy to be cleaved in half. Constitution could cause the character to deflect an affliction instantly and gain immunity to it for a short time. Resolve could inspire a Gandalf-like "You shall not pass" animation and giving all nearby enemies "stuck" afflictions.

I think the one stat everyone can agree with is that barbarians benefit a lot from intelligence (ironically). It is needed to hit multiple enemies with carnage, which is the barbarians biggest strength. It is also helpful for extending the duration of other core abilities like savage defiance and frenzy, and some talents. The other stats you can go either way and be fine but low intelligence is a really bad idea with a barbarian.

The main reason I like dual-wield is the possibility of double speed-enchanted weapons for very quick attacking. The speed enchantment of each help each other and stack and you can get two "noble" type ones at the very start of Act 2 (dagger and rapier). The low recovery time this fighting style allows also lets you react very quickly and switch to something like puppet master or whispers of treason if an enemy decides to charge toward you suddenly. The cipher is best hitting the low DR trash enemies because their attacks are primarily to gain focus, not take down big, dangerous enemies with weapons; that is what your cipher powers and charm is for. Fast weapons shine best against low DR enemies (the main argument for two-handers and the "wounding" enchantment is that they are much better against heavily armored enemies).

In my playthrough at level 16, I noticed that I generated more focus than I had time to use with dual weapons and I actually switched to a shield/sword at that point because there really wasn't any downside. With fully enchanted gear and durgan and all the talents, focus really isn't a problem so you might as well have higher defenses. You can even get zero-attack recovery with Time-Siphon while using a shield in which case having a shield hardly impacts damage or focus generation at all. However, in earlier levels I think a shield is much more of a hinderance because the deflection bonus is not yet significant (talents and quality enchantments really make the difference) and your damage output is still low and eaten up a lot by DR. Using a larger shield hurts all of your powers since all of them have accuracy rolls and accuracy impacts power duration a lot. Attacking faster/harder and charming/paralyzing more is just a more effective defense in the early/mid game. I completely agree that shield and max defenses is very good in the late game, though.

It would. That's why you don't let your melee cipher get hit too much.And give Shod-in-Faith to other frontliner, with maxed Mig, Int, low-deflection and high health pool. Usually it's a monk or barbarian. On a side note, Wound Binding is increased by Might and is usable in combat) Moon godlike, shod-in-faith'ed barb/monk with high Mig/Con/Int can just stand and stand and stand alive. This is kind of why I felt that a more defensive approach with Shield + Hatchet might be better, because if you've got higher deflection you're going to be much less likely to get attacked in the first place, which means more focus and less interruptions. Maybe Brynlod had a hatchet for a reason? Remember, if you charm an enemy with whispers of treason, they get huge debuffs to their defenses. To the other enemies, they seem like ideal targets to engage because of their poor defenses. That is why the "charm" affliction is actually better than the "domination" affliction most of the time. You don't really need particularly high defenses to make yourself look "tankier" than a charmed enemy who has -40 to all defenses. The +25 deflection buff of the long-lasting PsychoVampiric Shield power should be enough.

If health (not endurance) is a problem, the binding wounds talent solves that completely and can also be used in the middle of combat, if needed. With high Might, it recovers the majority of your health pool. Basically turns a cipher into a monk from a health perspective. The impact it has is a lot higher than many other talents people frequently take in the mid-late game which only very mildly help damage output or defenses. By level 10, you should already have the most important talents taken for your class. That said, I agree with the notion of just not letting your melee cipher get hit too much instead of focusing and health or endurance regeneration. Shouldn't be too much of an issue since they have quick-to-cast disable powers. Ideally, they should be beating up on charmed or paralyzed enemies instead of fighting a fair fight.

When I last played melee cipher, I focused almost completely on offense (much like a ranged cipher) with the idea that if the enemies are disabled, they can't attack regardless of how far away the cipher is so defenses and health are not very important (though I still wore plate armor most of the time in the early/mid game because focus generation isn't very good yet). By using melee weapons, you do more damage than ranged weapons and gain focus quicker. Guns are good for quick focus, but for sustained focus generation, melee weapons are king. Ciphers have the best renewable disabling spells in the game and a disabled enemy is as good as +1,000,000 to all defenses. Because the cheap-to-cast powers are single target only, good battlefield position is key to survival so you don't draw too much attention. It is good to attack from the edges instead of trying to engage in the middle where you can get surrounded or overwhelmed. Finding a choke point is also very helpful so that you only need to disable one enemy at a time. The most important stats are Intelligence and Perception which should be maxed as high as possible. You really need your charms and mental binding to last as long as possible and hit reliably because those serve as both your offense and defense. Dexterity should also be high so you can cast your powers quickly, attack fast, and react to changes swiftly. Constitution should be at least average so you don't get one-shot (ciphers have naturally low endurance). Might and Resolve are not very important and can be left as low as you want. Might only has a minor impact with damage because ciphers already have additive modifiers from talents and soul whip. Accuracy bonuses from perception and enemy debuffs also helps damage output a lot. More damage is always nice, but it just isn't as important as the other stats. I also recommend having only 3 Resolve. The reason is that you can actually cast the Vampiric Shield power with yourself as the target right before you "start" a battle. Doing so before the encounter makes it free to cast (focus instantly regenerates) and enables to use your starting focus for whispers of treason or mental binding instead. This drains your remaining resolve, but gives you 25 deflection. Effectively, it provides a free +23 deflection boost after the resolve loss because you can't go below 1 resolve. Your concentration will be terrible, but ideally enemies shouldn't be attacking you anyway. I recommend wearing the belt of chimes to help compensate for the low concentration. You can also use drugs if you want. One of them provides an attack speed boost which is helpful for a melee cipher and the drug's downside of losing resolve is negated completely. Early on, you want to use most of your focus on the first level charm spell because it is a very cost-effective crowd control and mental binding is also a good option. Both provide a huge deflection debuff which effectively increases your accuracy by a ton allowing for frequent critical hits. Don't be afraid to attack enemies you charmed if that keeps you in a safer battlefield position. You can always just charm another after it dies since it doesn't take long to get 10 focus. Some enemies are immune to charm in which case you rely more on the "stuck" AOE of mental binding to keep them out of range. Vessels tend to be immune to charm so it is good to use anti-vessel items (like bartender ring) and enchantments. Burning lash is good for undead and corrode lash is good for mechanical vessels if you want specialized weapons for them. Against enemies immune to both charm and paralyze... are big problems for a cipher. In a party, I would just avoid those enemies and stay back. For solo, I relied a lot on figurines and consumables to deal with them. There are not many immune to both afflictions. At higher levels, I tended to use Puppet Master (because it is instant cast and has a longer duration) instead of whispers of treason because each melee attack generated tons of focus. I would also use the one that increased speed by 50% in order to reach zero-attack recovery. That really boosts focus generation, but really it is just to hurry up encounters because by the time you have the focus to cast it safely, the battle is already under control.