KDubya

Because the archetype I want is the rogue who attacks super fast with 2 weapons but is still a rogue. I don't want to multiclass and take all of Fighter (which I want 1 single passive out of) and lose out of a ton of Rogue abilities (as opposed to 1-2 if the talent was universal or I had some other way to get it) just for that. Although right now, if the system doesn't change I probably will make a Rogue/Devoted. That's exactly what I wanted, and exactly what I did. Turns out a devoted/streetfighter is a total badass. Great, sounds like the problem is solved!!!! As a bonus tip you could make a Monk/Rogue and use Swift Strikes to get increased attack speed.

A solution would be just to dump that. Then there's no benefit to having more PEN than the AR. On the flipside to that there'd be no reason to have armor at all if you didn't have enough. To have a penalty for going naked you have the system that causes extra damage when over penetrated. Estocs have more penetration but do a lot less damage than a Great Sword, having a damage adder for the extra penetration is good, but having it be the only multiplicative damage adder is not. Change that to an additive +50% like a crit and see how that works. How is everyone doubling the AR so easily for these massive hits?

This seems like circular reasoning to me: "Only fighters get weapons styles now, therefore only fighters should get them or they are getting cheated. Only rogues get deep pockets, therefore only rogues should get them." Sure that's true right now, but that's not much of an argument because it wasn't true in Pillars 1 (nor D&D since 3E for that matter, two-weapon fighting, my goto example was a generic perk available to anyone who met the stat requirement). There's nothing explicitly Fighter about two weapon fighting, or explicitly rogue about deep pockets. They just happen to be limited that way right now, and clearly some of us disagree with that decision. As to where to draw the line, drawing it the same place as Pillars 1 makes sense for a start. In my little writeup idea and mockup I even specifically got rid of the class-defining passives from the second tab (Sneak Attack for rogues, Constant Recovery for Fighters, things like Soul Whip or Carnage, etc. etc.). In contrast, I don't think there is anything at all about deep pockets that screams rogue to me, nor anything about two weapon fighting that screams fighter. As a Rogue that does not multi with a Fighter, either staying pure or multi classing with something else, you can still dual wield, you just don't get the -20% attack speed that Fighter get. Fighters are the martial mastery class, fighting is what they do and is all they do and they do it better than amateurs. Getting access to lots of passive abilities is what Fighters have as their 'thing'. If Fighters are going to be only about having a ****ty knockdown and other 'meh' abilities they might as well just get rid of them as a class. Currently I use Fighters a lot in my multi classing as I like melee characters and Fighters are great at melee, They blend well with lots of classes. Want a combat focused weapon using monk? - Take Devoted and add a Shattered Pillar choosing whether you want a Monk who has a combat stance and a weapon style or a Fighter who gains wounds and uses them on Torment's Reach or a little from both. If I could get the weapon style of my choice without taking Fighter then I could go with a Cipher Monk and get the big damage increase from Soul Whip plus get a spammable power or two. In effect I'd have three classes. Deep Pockets to me sounds like what a Rogue would have who uses a lot of grenades or sets lots of traps. In the example of your Rogue who wants two weapon style what is stopping you from multi classing with a Fighter? You must value whatever else you did more than getting access to two weapon style. Sounds like a choice with consequences to me.

*EVERYTHING* becomes suddenly awesome if you throw on a buff and Dire Blessing. I'm still trying to think of a way to fix that problem without just giving graze back to everybody. Why should everyone get graze? Its a conditional racial benefit of Boreal Dwarves, a Fighter ability and the result of multiple buffing spells. If you want graze you can easily get access to it. If everyone had graze you'd have to change a lot of spells and abilities. Lack of graze is actually a big problem for spells. With the long cast times and no graze, casters often spend half the fight casting a spell that then misses entirely. This is a big change from PoE 1, where the graze ability let casters *hit more often*, for reduced effect, thus allowing them to successfully hit with spells more often. Did you play PoE 1 at all? I ask only because you are regularly responding to posters issues about the distributions of talents or abilities with "Well, that's x character types ability, why would y character type get it?" when we're discussing experiences in the past with the original game when they were *not* exclusive and why we feel they *still shouldn't be*. Does Dire Blessing affect spells with Graze? If it does then that sounds like what the devs intended. If all spells get graze then what is the point of Dire Blessing for a caster and is this a problem? In PoE grazes on debilitating spells like paralyze were as good as a hit. Dragon slaying depended on buffing a caster who could land a graze that reduced one of the defenses such that the next spell could graze or even hit if lucky. It needed to be adjusted. Is the answer to have debilitating effects be downgraded one tier on a graze? What about duration, should it be reduced as well or is the tier reduction enough? Maybe adding inherent accuracy to certain (all?) spells is needed instead? Maybe the devs intend casters to get buffed first to obtain graze before they cast? PoE is a completely different game than Deadfire. They've changed most everything from health and endurance, grazing, armor, multi classing the list goes on. In PoE between general abilities and cross class abilities you could really blend the lines between the various classes. Rogues could almost get as tanky (at least as far as deflection) as a Fighter and still have their backstab as could spell casters. Now you need to multi class to get abilities beyond the main class. With the current system you need to keep the lines distinct in who gets access to what or else class distinctions gets blurred. The game systems are what they are. Its not as if any big changes are going to come from the Beta so wishing for a return to the systems of PoE are not going to happen.

Mages getting some sort of elemental damage boosting passives sounds like a good idea. Deep pockets is a Rogue (I think) ability now. Similar to my views on taking Fighter multi if you want Fighter abilities, I'd say take Rogue if you want Rogue abilities. All of the 'general talent pool' abilities are specific to one or more classes, making them available to everyone cheapens the class that had them. Plus where do you draw the line? If weapon styles are OK for everyone why not combat stances or regen? If you make the general pool abilities weaker they can still end up being an auto pick or be complete trash.

Indeed, thanks to the huge reduction if under penetration and the huge bonus if over penetration, it behooves you to *always* use high penetration weapons regardless of damage amounts. They are at this point the best weapons to have. My mage with a warbow is doing *significantly* more damage with autoattack than his magic. You only need to use enough penetration. A Warhammer has 8 penetration if the enemy has only 7 or less armor its a lot better to use a Sabre and hit much harder. You can even use the modal for Sabres which I believe increase penetration in case you a few points short. If you are off more than that you need some sort of AR debuff or try for getting crits. Mages are a whole different issue. With only five spells (2@1st, 2@2nd and 1@3rd) you can't exclusively cast, you will spend a fair bit (most?) of your time attacking with a weapon. That in itself is not inherently bad, but spells could use some buffs.

*EVERYTHING* becomes suddenly awesome if you throw on a buff and Dire Blessing. I'm still trying to think of a way to fix that problem without just giving graze back to everybody. Why should everyone get graze? Its a conditional racial benefit of Boreal Dwarves, a Fighter ability and the result of multiple buffing spells. If you want graze you can easily get access to it. If everyone had graze you'd have to change a lot of spells and abilities. Also using buffs that synergize well for your team should have great benefits, I mean that's one of the points of having a five man team instead of a single character isn't it?

Currently Fighters get: 1.) regen 2.) weapon styles such as sword and shield and dual wielding 3.) Combat stances such as warrior and defender 4.) ways to increase engagements and make breaking them more punishing 5.) passive defense buffs 6.) activated defense buffs 7.) a few other things I can't remember If you want those things you need to multi with a fighter. If everyone could get Fighter abilities why be a Fighter? Your 'general talent pool' with weapon styles would get chosen automatically by anyone who uses a weapon. That would not promote diversity, everyone would end up the same. Single class Casters don't have access to passives but instead get increased power level which helps massively with their spells. If you want passives you just need to pay the cost and multi with whatever you feel you are lacking.

The more I play the more used to the new penetration system I get. 1.) Raising your AR now pays off while in PoE it just took a few points off a big number, now it can stop 70%. It needs to be big to justify the action speed malus from armor. 2.) Weapons with lower damage and higher penetration like a warhammer have a purpose rather than always going with Sabre because damage is everything. Weapons with multiple damage types have increased their worth as few points difference in AR can be huge rather than a meaningless difference in a few points of damage. 3.) Having multiple weapon types in different slots are much more powerful and useful. Now maybe you want a ranged weapon like a gun, a general purpose weapon like a spear and an Estoc to deal with super high damage. having a third weapon slot might be useful for something other than another gun to shoot once. Not sure a Black Jacket is worth the loss of regen for another weapon slot though, seems pretty expensive. 4.) If your base AP is not enough you can: a.) Activate the increased penetration modal on your weapon if you chose one with that ability. b.) Switch to a weapon with a more favorable AR c.) Cast a spell or activate an ability that reduces AR d.) Try to increase your accuracy/decrease their deflection via buffs, switching to single weapon style or other means in order to get critical hits which get bonus AP e.) Suck it up Buttercup and just accept the -70% damage I think this system will be more complex and rewarding to master as opposed to the old system of more damage is the solution to everything. P.S. Once enchantments are included in the game using an elemental weapon lash might alleviate a lot of the issues with AP.

Did anyone see this idea I posted the other day? It was the middle of the night so I'm not sure. Anyone have any thoughts? Too crazy/complicated to balance? (This is probably true, IMO) Not far enough for "universality" of talents? ​Bad because it doesn't help multi-classers at all? Why should everyone get access to weapon styles and weapon focus? If you want to be good at melee multi with a Fighter and take the weapon style and stance of your choice. Being masters of martial skill is what fighter do. Why should your Rogue be able to cherrypick the best abilities from a Fighter and keep the power level of a pure Rogue? Now if you want your Rogue to be better at melee you need to sacrifice a little power level and multi with a Fighter. I really do not see the problem with increased access to abilities from another class coming at the cost of a reduced power level. TANSTAFL

Also remember that currently melee is bugged in that all single handed medium speed weapons have a 1 second recovery instead of the 3 seconds they should have. Basically melee is doing twice the damage it should. This makes magic and two handed weapons look poor in comparison.

It does give you more 'stuff' though. My prototype Juggernaut is a Devoted/Shattered Pillar. At the start of combat I've got four or five clickable powers from both classes, a single class would only have the one. I can click Disciplined Barrage for an accuracy boost and then click Swift Strikes for a attack speed boost and then as soon as I hit someone I gain 'wounds' to spend on Torment's Reach. All the while I can use a shield and work to stay unhittable. No glass cannon just a big cannon Single classes might be useful for casters (not sure haven't done much with them) but for melee I can't see any reason not to multiclass. I mean why be a pure fighter when you could make a fighter/monk who gets a spammable Force of Anguish or a Fighter/Barbarian who gets carnage. If nothing else you get double the choices for where to spend your level ups.

That first shot from stealth could be like 30-40 points of damage. Give Arquebus to all five guys and you can drop a guy or two. Starting the fight by killing the enemy mage or priest is a pretty strong opener. In the time it takes for the enemy to run up on you you'll have swapped to your main weapon. Alpha striking with Flames of Devotion and an Arquebus is what makes Paladins great Also considering that you get -10 deflection if attacked while holding an arquebus it seems like a good idea to put it away as soon as you've fired. The penalty to switch weapons is time but you have enough time during the enemies approach to melee range.

On the other hand if everyone could take Arms Bearer that would take away from the uniqueness of the Black Jacket and infringe on the Fighter. Black Jackets have a pretty big downside of no fighter regen, letting everyone gain access to their "thing" would cheapen what they have. In this game having lots of weapons to swap to is a Fighter thing. Rogues get sneak attack, Barbarians get carnage and Fighter get fighter type perks like multiple weapon sets or stances or the ability to move better in armor. I found that the general feats and especially the crossclass ones reduced the uniqueness of certain classes. Rogues were especially susceptible to being outclassed by anyone taking apprentice sneak attack and some mechanics, while easily accessible regeneration made Fighters not so unique and easily replaced by someone better or at least good enough but with their own perks that Fighters didn't get. In the case of Devoted I've found that proficiency with a ranged weapon gains from the penetration. Not sure if bug or feature?

-20% for Armored Grace doesn't even make leather as fast as robes -120% might be too good but it needs to be a lot more than -20%. I'd like there to be some tradeoffs between no/light armor and killing faster compared to heavier armor and killing slower. PoE failed at that at higher levels when damage vs DR made it so that faster was always better. DR15 in robes was better than DR25 in plate with the speed penalty and how damage was coming in at 50 per hit. I thought that the -120% Armored Grace was a way to let fighters go heavy and be quick, sounded like a nice perk to make up for not being a Barbarian with Carnage.

Are you firing once and then swapping to another weapon, or are you reloading? My Devoted/Shattered Pillar Fighter Monk is stupidly good with an Arquebus. Starting combat with an aimed shot that gets +20 accuracy at the cost of a slower reload that isn't going to occur anyway is just great. It even benefits from Devoted for a total of 13 penetration, plus as a Fighter I get grazes as well. Slowing down reload and making the damage bigger would be unbalanced for anyone like me who just fires once and then grabs another weapon.

One benefit to the new big penalties to recovery from armor is that the Fighter getting "Armored Grace" at -125% recovery becomes meaningful. If you want to move quick in plate be a Fighter, if not use lighter armor or get used to being slow. In PoE everyone could wear plate if they wanted but most everyone went with the lightest they could as speed was king. Now with armor blocking 70% or nothing getting heavy armor has some real payoff for the investment. Going for the quickest and lightest lets you act faster but suffer from a multiplicative +30% damage adder. Not a no brainer decision.

What if two handed weapons had a bonus to penetration? That would give them a purpose since currently extra damage without penetration doesn't do much. The current system is realistic in that armor is breached or it is not. Consider current ballistic armor - a pistol causes bruising but a rifle punches through and acts as if you didn't have the armor. That is what we have in game now. The way to balance is to not have every higher level enemy automatically have better armor. Give some armor, give some a lot more hit points, have different armors have different weaknesses. Make it so you need to swap weapons types to get to the one that works or else just grit your teeth and deal with the -70% damage.

I'm OK with the current graze system where only Fighters get them (and Boreal Dwarves against wilder and primordial) It gives them their niche. Barbarians get carnage for AoE, Fighters get grazes, seems fair to me. If they can give grazes to spells where a graze downgrades the affliction sounds like a fine addition. So a graze with paralyze gets you immobilized instead.

Will need to do this to be able to get a shield and a ranged weapon for my guys because THERE IS NO STORE! ​I still can't comprehend why they went to the effort to have the Dwarf shopkeeper but only having him sell a single pistol. At least it could have been "The Disappointer" which would have been worth a few laughs but they failed even here.

If you want true granularity and have every point of damage taken actually mean something then you need to go back to the PoE system of health and endurance. In that system just squeaking by an encounter still resulted in loss of health which eventually would force you to rest. Getting knocked out gave you wounds which were extra punishment for getting knocked out. Why they changed it i don't know. It seemed pretty straight forward and was unique. If younger gamers are incapable of grasping the concept of health and endurance I weep for the future The old system worked perfectly with high constitution monks who had regen; your health was like a battery that you drew on fueling your attacks. Now with only health it makes far more sense to make Shattered Pillar Monks who get stronger by doing damage rather than taking damage.

Fighters can get resistance to resolve, might and dexterity afflictions which would stack with the racial from Coastal Aumaua, and Wood Elves. So then a Wood Elf fighter with the Unstoppable tier four ability would be immune to Hobbled, immune to Immobilized and Paralyze gets downgraded to Hobbled. A Coastal Aumaua with the Body Control tier four ability would be immune to Staggered, immune to Dazed and Stun gets downgraded to Staggered. Wow! That makes them a really good choice as the big threat is from afflictions that cold stop you like stun and paralyze. EDIT - Forgot that Wild Orlans get Resolve resistance so a Wild Orlan Fighter with Fearless would be immune to Shaken, immune to Frightened and Terrified gets downgraded to Shaken. Not as good as the others but not too shabby. EDIT 2 - A Monk with Swift Strikes active gets the Quick Inspiration so that would mean a Wood Elf Fighter/Monk would be immune to even Paralyze while under the influence of Swift Strikes.

The problem was that people did cast their best spells every time and then just rested. At a minimum you'd rest before any major fight so you'd have the big spells available. Now with everything per encounter you can let loose with everything and the encounter can be balanced based on that. The new limited use empower is pretty much the only resource that needs managing.

What is the reason there are no venders in the starting town? The dwarf only has a pistol for sale, no shields, no weapons at all. It makes it hard to outfit a character and for the life of me I can not think of a reason. Or is my game bugged?

Pen=AR gets you full damage. You only get bonus damage when you get Pen=2*AR 2*AR for 30% more damage. That was kinda joke? I think for final build of the game it would be real hard to gain 2*AR unless you are fighting severely under-leveled mobs. I don't think level has anything to do with the targets AR. A low level guy in plate will take less damage than a high level guy in robes. A 20 damage attack will be 6 damage to the heavy armor, 20 damage to medium and 26 damage to the guy in robes. 30% extra damage is nice but not so big that getting all armored up becomes the best way every time. Unfortunately getting more penetration is pretty much the go to strat.