Tigranes

Jerro didn't need to be invincible. Z and AJ didn't need to be the only ones able to read ze scrolls. The RoP didn't have to be interrupted so that AJ is necessary. Shandra could have just given up a test tube of blood then gone back to the farm or something. Neeshka and Khelgar could have been refused, then you just end up meeting them later in the city somewhere - Khelgar outside the Temple of Tyr, "hey, monk th ing isnt going so well", Neeshka robbing someone in Neverwinter. This is exactly what happened to Yoshimo in BG2 if you refused him first in the dungeon. ALL of the forced characters were stupid. Earlier I said I dont mind the idea of forced characters itself; Volo disagreed, but that's just all personal opinion on my and his part. But it is a fact that none of the characters in NWN2 needed to be forced, and removing this flaw would not have unduly complicated the plot. In fact, the plot was twisted and made artificial to accommodate these stupid compulsory characters. I'd love to see a Sawyer or someone comment about why the decision was made to have forced characters in the game; I'm sure there was a logic even if we don't like it, and even if it did'nt work out as well as they had intended. But for now, I say it was horrible and even though I love NWN2 it's a glaring flaw. *Especially* in multiplayer coop!

Since Hot Coffee and the various nude / sex adventure modules of NWN maybe? If WoTC didn't want such perversion of their licenses it makes sense.

Both. I just don't pursue the female romance options, especially since it's hard to be attracted to Anomen...

Once again, I fully agree and agreed with your assertions that NWN2 weapons don't look good and could (not should) be improved. So let's leave that. Where it gets me is your constant need to compare with NWN1. Specifically, what "freedom" do you mean that Bioware exercised? Without comparing to NWN2, NWN1 weapons were not metallic but plastic, with a dullish grey, 'straight' swords looking pretty much like NWN2 ones, the acid and other effects cartoonish and glaring, and so forth. What exactly are you suggesting should have been done with NWN2 weapons, that was done with NWN1? Just the fact that they should have authentic proportions and concept design? If so, sure, I agree - but it's not a big deal and certainly not worth rustling up the hay with all the NWN1>2 stuff.

Maria is right with DR's original situation. It's exactly like the Euthanasia question - if you can ask them if they want death or not, why wouldn't you? In fact, the Orcs in that cave aren't exactly bound, they could kill themselves if they wanted to. Since they didn't, why are you suddenly the do-gooder / arbitrator? Pop's assertions are interesting because I (like any good postmodern generation person that has interest in philosophy/ethics ) have relativist leanings and often struggle to see if they should be 'implemented' in my D&D personality or if I should leave it out. Remember that relativism or simply counterpoints have been widely popular in especially CRPGs and some D&D novels - i.e. the standard "Orc but not evil". While of course the question of hereditary evil (heh, bhaalspawn prophecy) is not the same as the relativist argument, it would be prudent to accept the presence of relativist perspectives in D&D now, by users or by creators. I think there's always been an implication with many plots that to be Good involves a certain level of unrealistic idealisation, and to be ruthlessly pragmatic is to be Evil. I killed Yaisog Bonegnasher because I knew that the chance of him reporting his findings to his superiors could not be taken (not in terms of the game, in terms of roleplaying). In a way that's my gripe with being Good in D&D - you are expected to do the Greater Good while saving puppies and children, and pardoning villains and rebuilding collapsed toilets on the way. Then when your good actions push yourself into an inescapable situation, you either heroically pull something out of your arse or die heroically and tragically. Which is why I nearly always end up just playing CG and bend the rules a bit.

Sawyer just explained this. Yes it does... unless you mean every part of the hair, in which case, you're saying all the hair moved in NWN1? *blink* Once again, so you liked the cartoony art as long as it was in authentic proportion and concept design?

You can actually talk to him in peace later. It's a gag and I found it funny, but yeah.

Apparently these same people who look at "details" that "make up the game" were okay with having a retarded non-plot which was written by a thirteen year old who's read LOTR and Harry Potter, having dialogue options that didn't matter, having the "Freedom" to choose in which order to collect 4 sticks of power that were acquired in exactly the same way, have shallow stupid NPCs, have the game pursue an artistic style where everything is made of brightly coloured cartoon blocks, elevation is less detailed than Lego Blocks and ... Really. If we were just arguing, say, weapons don't look very good, or some spell vfx don't look very good, I would agree with you hundred per cent. You'll see that I criticise NWN2 on a lot of individual points, such as forcing companions. But that is individual criticism: taking them all together and saying these little things kill NWN2, or make it inferior to NWN1, or show Obsidian's incompetence, or whatever you actually want to say, is something else altogether. NWN2 has lots of niggling mistakes, just like any other big game. But personally, I think it's way way better than NWN1 or any other CRPG in recent years because comparatively it has better story, characters, a nice Keep system, etc. I also like the interface, artistic direction, toolset, and so forth. You could argue differently; but while I woudl respect your opinion I would think it foolhardy to project that opinion as the representatives of an unknown mass just because of spell vfx.

I don't actually care two bits about 'authenticity'. I'll cry out for that when I'm playing Total War and they have the wrong type of axe for the Varangian Guards or something, but hell, it's not like you really zoom in a lot in a game like NWN2 anyway. The flail was pretty weak I noticed, and they're all a bit simple, but I really don't mind. That said, I thought NWN1 weapons looked pretty crappy. Not speaking on an authenticity basis, but the pixel amounts, the artistic quality, the way it just looks in the game - they were none too impressive. That is funny bros.

That's true. It would really have been nice, I've been wanting it since NWN1. It may be that I prefer 2D to 3D still, but I think BG2 battles look just as good as NWN2 ones, just in a different way.

IMO there are some settings that are 'essential' - such as Point Mip-Map (everything is grainy and moves around hurting ze eyes otherwise), and Medium/High textures. They don't really affect framerate at all. Pity I can't turn Dynamic Lighting off. But an option to turn off floating combat messages and have them in the chat box instead would have been very nice. Aesthetically I think NWN2 looks really really good even in battles - until there's all sorts of 56 and CRITICAL HIT! and whatever flying around. I'd rather have them in the chatbox and enlarge the chatbox, BG-style.

They are not the same as GOTO... in the sense of character. I love Bishop and while I'm ambivalent about Ammon, both of them were well written and were given effort adn time to make them "real" NPCs, if with dubious motivations for following the PC. GOTO had no motivation, no personality, no use and was a stupid stupid waste of time. The thing is, I think Shandra was forced in your party for such a long time so that you would actually feel shock when she was killed. Aeris didn't need this, but then Aeris was very central to FF7's early story and came up all the time. Shandra is not like that - her character is a bystander, the person who waits until the Jerro blood is needed. So if I, say, just left her at the Flagon all the time, which story-wise I definitely could have done, it reallly would be overkill to have that dramatic death sequence. Still, I disagree with the whole thing. The Fifth Ritual sequence was hacked up, artificial, deus ex machina and immersion-breaking, as I had commented last week or so; the Reaver scrolls should be usable by *everyone*. Information about the Dragon could have been garnered from Jerro's Haven, in his diary or libraries or something, taking Aldanon there. Or at least, Zhjaeve/Ammon shouldn't need to be forfced into the party. The story defiinitely could have accmmodated 1/ not having Shandra forced for so long, and 2/ the option to kill or part ways with Ammon Jerro. I don't mind having party members forced on you - it's realistic. Sometimes you have to take people you despise to succeed in your goals. But the reasons for Ammon was very artificial, and there wasn't any reason for Shandra to be in your actual party all the time. (The only reason she gives? "Every time i'm not with you, trouble finds me." Yeah right.)

Seems to happen with most games nowadays, but then I have a crappy card. Usually shadows and HDR are the only things that really change it - that and super-AAx8.

At least the game doesn't have the Stat Tomes, or you'd really be crying.

I'm not sure how HiPS (heh) works in NWN2 though. I mean, half the time I can "hide" in "plain sight" anyway - first off, you can just run around and sneak attack anybody who is fighting somebody else in your party, and secondly, you can just run off a litle to the side, Hide, come back & sneak attack. I don't see much of a point in HiPS in nwn2, unless i missed something.

So yeah. Do we actually have a thread where we discuss the campaign anymore? I miss the old days of three days ago. Just got the keep in my second walkthrough as Chaotic Neutral Rogue 10 / Ranger 2 / Shadow Thief 1. Going to get the latter all the way up to 5 then get Rogue to 13 to get Crippling Strike. Better overall than just going Assassin IMO. It hasn't been too hard to play CN - there are lots of opportunities for Chaotic, which apparently is also related to sarcasm - and neutrality is just doing the stuff I gotta do, but I'm not gonna rescue puppies from the local stream for you. Heh. Oddly, 1.03beta made my city outdoors lag a lot more (from ~15 to ~ to a point where its sorta stuttery, but other outdoors stayed at 15-20 and indoors got much better from 5-8 to 12-15. Ah well, it was playable before and it's slightly more playable now. Waiting for that x800 XT. I'm dual wielding so the hotkey thing is nice, and ores are highlighted and targetable now it seems. Some different things I noticed; I took Moire's side instead of City Watch and it seemed to be fairly different, and most of it made sense. There should have been more 'alternate dialogues' created for what happens afterwards, though - Nevalle especially seems all too happy to forget the fact that you are a known criminal. At the start of the trial sequence he says "that's what you get for being an arse", but that's about it - around the Keep part they're falling over you just like they would over a Paladin. Heck, I talked to Brelaina during Zhjaeve's release, then when I talked to her afterwards she said "I have nothing to say to someone like you." Perhaps I wasn't evil enough, but I don't think so. There should be more begruding on Nevalle and others' part that they have to rely on someone as unpredictable and unattached to law and order as you. Determined on actually finishing the Construct and using him to replace Shandra when she is no longer compulsory. I still hate it - I'd much rather carry Casavir around, who is the only party member I haven't really explored yet. But with myself, Bishop, Sand and Elanee, it kind of breaks party balance to do so. Ah well, it's not gamebreaking. Looks nice even with my computer; Oh, first multiplayer attempt at co-op with a friend. She had to open lots of ports on the router for it to work, but it did. But when I had crashed, and came back into the game session, instead of having my character spawn I took control of hers - meaning 2 people were controlling the same character, except the one I saw was somewhere else and invisible.

It was a bug then, and an unusual one. You can stop Shandra from saying much - I picked it, since I always seem to get negative influence with her. Therefore it's not "really bad design". It was good design. It was just a bug for you. ROFL TOFL. Unless you're suggesting Obsids sat there and went "hey, let's make a bug for roshan's version that won't let him choose." In my second playthrough I got Reylene in the trial - i hadn't found her in the first game, so I never got her in there. I also got the random "drunkard" who "testifies" - that was absolute gold. The trial was really well done, even if the evidences part was probably cut.

Well, everyone knows that in my opinion George Bush, NWN1 OC, NWN1 artistic style and the Arabian Snow Resort are competing for the spot as the second crappiest thing in the universe, but you're obviously not going to agree, so why bother? I mean, this is like a 50 page Volourn thread. *I* love NWN2, so I'd rather play.

CRAP, CRAP, CRAP, WHY AM I IN THIS THREAD ABORT! ABORT! CRITICAL DANGER! *dive*

It is. Keep three and avoid both problems.

That's what I mean. NWN2 pathfinding is good if you tell them to go to the other end of the map, but it will often get stuck around ilttle things.. and your party members are exactly those 'little things'. How many times did you order a party member or your character to do something, but they get stuck behind each other? Anyway, clipping has never bothered me in any game, but that's just me. You're right that it does happen a fair bit.

Precisely. For example, if the max dex modifier of the armour is +5, and my dex is 18, I should be able to equip Belt of Agility +2 and see it go up to 20 (+5), right? Not so. In fact, even if I made my dex go up to 22, it should - it should simply stay at 22 (+5). But it doesn't. There's some invisible cap on the actual ability score, and it seems only to be present post 1.02. Also, I'd say the clipping is better than you running into party members all the time, because the pathfinding would go berserk with that.

Yeah, the stack rules in various places seem to be fudgy. Sometimes, instead of bracers / armour cancelling out, you'll only get SOME of the bracer bonus (i.e. Bracers +3 gives only +1). Ability Scores seem to do the same thing, where you should have, say, 21 Dex, but only 19, even though your armour allows the Dex modifier to go up more. Stupid 3.5.

Ooh, very nice. Are you able to give them race-related traits, and did you have to replace an existing race?

Ouchies. How far were you up to? I hope I never have toolset saves corrupt, but alas, I've seen it happen already.