MadDemiurg

Depends if you want to run dragon trashed for damage. If yes, don't dump might. If no, might can be dumped although you still might want it for heals. Dex is mostly a dump stat. Always max Resolve and int. Perception is also a dump stat if you don't plan on using any offensive chants or invocations, but you'd want at least average perception otherwise. Constitution is of limited use, you survive with your high def and healing. I wouldn't dump it, but I wouldn't max it either, although if you dump offensive stats you have the points to max it anyway. Personally I prefer to be able to do some damage, so max Int/Res/Might, min Dex, avg Per, Con. For pure summoner maybe max Int/Res/Con, min Dex/Per, rest Might. Use shield style + dagger and med shield modals for max tanking. In a party might make sense to use a higher damage weapon for disengagement attacks,

Borrowed instinct needs to hit an enemy which is a major downside compared to other buffs, so it needs to be stronger. As for priest, I'd honestly buff some of their other buffs (lol), like champion's boon, strong buffs is pretty much the only thing going for them atm. Devotions was stronger than most higher level priest spells in PoE1 as well.

I haven't played beta for a while, but in the current state a major problem with multiclassing is that it's way too easy to stack damage bonuses. "Power level" doesn't seem to help deal with this at all as most of them are fixed. 50% sneak attack is still 50% sneak attack whether you multiclass or not. Basically almost any combination of the following: Soulblade Rogue Barb Paladin Fighter Monk Shifter Wizard (once blights and lance are accessible) Ranger (with ranged weapons) is capable of putting out damage far beyond what they would be able to do if they stayed single class. The outliers of for me so far are the paladin multiclasses as they are capable of great damage and good/great survivability at the same time. Although I haven't tested some other interesting combos yet. In terms of survivability any combo of Paladin, Fighter, Chanter, Wizard seems to do well, with Chanter/Paladin providing awesome support and good damage + even more tanking via summons on top. Some worthy mentions in terms of single class: Ascendant cipher. The whole point is spamming cipher powers so multiclasses don't do much. They might help to get to max focus bit faster but with draining whip and a high damage weapon you usually max out in 1-3 hits anyway. With +5 power levels from ascension + nature godlike the aoe damage is very respectable and this is likely the best CC class atm. Probably would get even stronger in full game with high level cipher powers as they aren't supposed to be spammable normally. Beckoner is really strong too, but beckoner with paladin is probably better. Lifegiver nature godlike aka mr healbot. Priest would probably still be good in a party because some of the buffs are really strong. Not sure if there are multiclasses that are better than staying pure here. Spell damage casters e.g. evoker or fury can do decent aoe but they are not even close to ascendant level of spammability and seem to fall behind weapon damage due to how easy it is to stack. With wizard in particular, seems silly to bother with damage spells when you have citzal's lance. I think stacking of damage multipliers when multiclassing needs to be looked at.

From my testing the following builds are pretty bonkers: Soulblade + Bleakwalker Soulblade + Barb Paladin (whatever) + Beckoner Soulblade with Bleakwalker can oneshot stuff with FoD and then oneshot again with soul annihilation. Rinse repeat. Pretty great resists as well. Lash damage from FoD is multiplicative with soul whip. If you really hate someone mark them as well. Tank version with plate armor is possible and has good synergy with Retribution from pala, but in a party the optimal setup is probably a dps one with a pike and a ranged weapon in the 2nd set (rod for aoe or something that hits really hard for oneshotting). Soulblade + Barb is bit weaker but has melee aoe, although you can have ranged aoe with rods if needed with anyone. Also kinda squishy so should use a pike and wouldn't work solo (while soulblade + pala probably can) Paladin + Beckoner is lol, you're nearly immortal and spam hordes of summons that easily kill anything. Definitely can solo. Pure beckoner is pretty bonkers too.

If lower power level pet means that it would have less damage and hp it's ok, but if they also tie accuracy to it instead of character level it might end up not being able to hit anything. Anyway, it's pure speculation at this point.

Ranger multiclassing is probably gonna be awkward if pet ends up being lower level (which is the likely scenario), but Ranger/Cipher seems interesting for a ranged weapon specialist with some powers and would give you an extra body to cast cipher powers on (your pet). Alternatively, Ranger/Fighter specced in whatever ranged weapon is best or Ranger/Rogue for dps. Maybe Ranger/Chanter if you can have a pet and a summon, lol. Depending on how good new Ranger abilities are in melee there might be crazier combos out there. Ranger/Wizard and Ranger/Druid are another possibility for the conjured ranged weapons, and might end up being the best one depending on how strong these are and how well they stack with Ranger abilities.

Cipher + Rogue = sneak + soul whip damage for a ton of single target dps and focus -> powers. Cipher + Barb already mentioned, even if carnage doesn't generate focus extra damage from soul whip would be nice, although Barb + Rogue might be more interesting then (can carnage sneak attack xD)? Cipher + Monk (Shattered pillar) = again ungodly dps from monk + cipher abilities and gain both wounds and focus from damage you deal (question is, can you spend it fast enough xD). If powers generate wounds and special monk attacks generate focus can potentially cycle through them indefinitely. Soulblade seems like a good choice for all martial cipher multiclasses since max focus is needed for using high tier powers and you're not getting them any time soon anyway. Paladin + Rogue, Paladin + Barb, Paladin + Monk, Paladin + Cipher for a more defensive character that can still dish out some. I have a feeling multiclassing won't be great for Wizards, Priests and Druids due to delayed spell progression, unless you're trying to make some sort of spellblade. Then again, you might be better off having a pure priest buffing a pure martial class if you're playing with a party. Possible exceptions are Shifter combat builds, if they are actually viable.

New system has less potential for cheese so its probably good. For multiclassing, on paper the obvious win win options are Cipher/Rogue, Cipher/Barb and Cipher/Monk (with subclass that gains wounds from damage dealt). Damage + even more damage + powers fueled by damage. Multiclassing a squishy high damage class with a Paladin might also be an interesting option. Delayed spell progression is probably gonna make Druid/Wizard/Priest multiclasses not so great, although added versatility might be valuable when soloing and generally depends on which spell levels are going to have the best spells.

This is a better approach. I also think boss fights should focus on you fighting a group of enemies rather than one big bad, cause no matter how big or bad he is there are a number of ways you can make a single entity powerless (CC, tanking, very high single target damage). Group fights also allow the whole arsenal of your abilities shine (aoe, mind control, on kill stuff etc). Most PoE fights do include groups of enemies, but some (dragon fights) are bit too focused on a single entity for my liking. Bounties are much more satisfying and interesting boss fights in this sense. Having a group of enemies with improved AI smartly using skills/spells at their disposal should give a nice challenge. E.g. enemy priests protecting from/suppressing CC, wizards smartly targeting your weakest saves, bruisers intercepting your melee and trying to keep them engaged or going for squishier chars themselves.

Bosses immune to CC with tons of hp you just have to bash through is the most lazyass boring design ever. Way worse than the current situation.

Tyranny is not inherently more simple than PoE. Combat system is in fact VERY similar. Tyranny suffers from poor balancing on quite a few occasions, but it's not something that's not fixable in a few patchers if the devs would think it's important. The enemy diversity is also bit poor and the bosses are quite disappointing, but again at least the latter can be addressed in patches potentially. Some of the new tyranny approaches I actually liked, e.g. classless system and spell builder. Both can use improvements of course (and talent trees do feel bit bland and generic as a side effect). Comparing Tyranny to Diablo or similar is weird to me, Tyranny is pretty story/rp heavy and is more or less a turn based game that tries to look realtime (just as PoE). Diablo is a lot more action oriented, with actual player reaction meaning a lot and very light on plot/dialogue/rp. In terms of difficulty Diablo is a lot more difficult than both PoE and Tyranny (you haven't played Inferno if you think otherwise), so saying that Tyranny is like diablo because it's easier than PoE is kinda weird. I'd say Tyranny is a lot more innovative than PoE and had a lot of great ideas, but suffers from poor execution of these ideas on many occasions.

Malices are only really even remotely threatening if you go pure melee, you can kill them with ranged and spells w/o any issues. You can do 2h spellblade that kills stuff with both magic and weapons or a thrown weapon tank or a full caster, all are viable for solo imo. Wrong forum tho :D.

Well, it's not my vid and it wasn't made for this thread, just a demonstration of what you can do, Pretty sure I'd be able to do it w/o figurines if needed. Also, using the fire storm spell in 1st half of the fight was imo suboptimal as you can see that probably 75% of the damage was done by shining beacon + cleansing flame in the 2nd part of the fight (the combo could likely easily go up to ~1k damage with maxed stats) As for who's the fastest, only possible to do with actual testing, which I don't have much time for atm. I played and tested casters a lot a long time time ago, at that time it seemed that priest > druid > wizard in terms of spell damage (wizard having great burst but losing in the long run vs powerful priest and druid dots), wizard > priest > druid in terms of survivability and wizard also had the best spell economy with summoned weapons. A lot has changed since then though and I haven't played WM enough to have a definite opinion (only 1 solo playthrough for me). Druid has pretty great spells too, but the problem is the lack of good accuracy buffs/defence debuffs and a lot of the better spells targetting fort (the hardest save to crack overall), so feels like the weaker of the 3. Pretty decent at mopping up trash with wildform, but it's not what's needed for these fights. Anyway, pretty sure these 3 would be the top ones in terms of speed, followed by chanter, cipher and monk. Paladins can do it, but are too slow. Barbs are good at aoe, but since most of barb exploits are gone I'm not sure they can do it at all. Maybe someone who's more proficient with the class as it works now can prove otherwise.

They are not broken, I intentionally added a space so the forum won't try to inline them. You just need to remove the space. If you're too lazy to remove a space, well... :D Yes, it can be done pretty easily. Point is, priest is probably the strongest aoe damage dealer in the game and a strong contender for single target as well, so if we talk speed, especially in multi opponent fights, I don't see anyone else coming close. Priest solo upscaled Thaos w/o lame splitiing people usually do in this fight https://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=3fhRirQZ3BQ. I have a vid of my own for Thaos solo w/o splitting with a wizard https://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=kIDjoea4aHY (mine is dated, that was pre WM). Wiz has the advantage of fast self buffs and some good burst damage with fast spells, but overall I think priest is stronger, especially if you consider that most of his stuff is party wide and is not even geared towards solo (but still works incredibly well there). Solo wiz early levels are bit easier though. But priest buffs, dots and seals are all incredibly strong. Safest ToI playthrough is still probably chanter or pacifist rogue, but rogue is not great at fighting tough optional content like bounties if you use that to measure power. Tank paladin can hack through a lot of stuff slowly but surely but kill speed definitely not their forte.

Did you see the vid? It's against upscaled faithful and the lowest hit chance was 77% with beacon, most were 100%. Probably 75% health left at the end as well. Priests have the highest accuracy with spells (or anything for that matter), if you count in the buffs and debuffs they can do. Burn DR also doesn't do much since dots work vs 1/4 DR as far as I remember and beacon does a ton of damage per tick. You probably don't have the right build/not using the right spells.

For priests, it's not even about fast casts, it's about "I melt your face off" casts. Actually almost none of the best priest spells are fast. Don't have time to record anything myself atm, but here's another guy's vid for Magran's faithful, ~5m combat with pretty extensive pausing: https://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=i4X6Zlxufh0 Pretty sure could be done faster if speed is the goal. I had some solo vids for priest myself for pre WM stuff, but they got taken down for some reason. But basically you could 2 shot Adra dragon with beacon + cleansing flame. Can be done quite easily with fire immune AD as well https://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=i4X6Zlxufh0 (same guy vid) but takes a lot longer cause fire immunity is a pretty big problem for priest kill speed. As for Tyranny, soloing is a imo easier than PoE since you get way more xp. Yes, the enemies scale as well, but you get more powerful than them way faster. You also play with 1/4 of your party instead of 1/6. Thrown weapons + shield tank with spell support works pretty well. The hardest part is act 1, and dots are very powerful earlygame, stacking poison + bleed + magefire will kill stuff really fast. With frostfire sigil and the cone frost attack you can set entire groups on fire dealing over 100 aoe dmg. Wits is actually pretty irrelevant, dots, buffs/debuffs, cc don't scale with it. So best stats are finesse, quickness, vitality. I'd go might after that.

If speed is the main measure of efficiency (and we discount the pause time), priest would have it easily with wizard being close 2nd imo. Shining beacon does ridiculous amounts of damage with maxed might and int. Chanter you could probably just leave him there and win eventually though.

Why would you approach the dragon from behind to get tail swiped? You would place the seal in front of you and back away to lure the dragon into it. Not to mention that fully buffed priest can make himself and the whole party able to tank the dragon in the first place. And yes, he's lacking Pertify and Paralyze, but outside of wizard only druid and cipher provide these. Druid's petrify is much weaker and paralyze is vs animals (luckily dragon is an animal). Cipher has paralyze only and it's very brief. Luckily you don't need these to kill the dragon quickly, the priest himself can bring down the dragon in like 2 casts with proper optimization. Priest in some old version soloing Adra dragon with ads on PoTD. Times have changed, but it shouldn't be that different now, especially with a party.

Imo aside from wizard, the best CC class for bosses is priest. The best CC class for regular fights is level 11+ cipher. Ranger is pretty great for single target CC at high levels as well.

This is not about melee rogue vs anything. Melee has more dps than ranged by default if both are able to attack continuously. As I demonstrated pure ranged dps should be roughly comparable for the endgame ranger and rogue, discounting the pet (which is pretty good). Deep wounds do not stack.... Most of the low int = more damage issues have been fixed (not that there were that many to begin with).

Wouldn't be so sure about pure ranged dps either. As a rough estimation currently ranged rogue gets say +250% weapon damage assuming deathblows are always on (which is a bit generous, even though they are not that difficult to enable) and lets say ranger gets only +100% (-deathblows and sneak attack). Which means that a rogue would do 350% damage per hit while ranger will do 2x200% damage per hit with twin arrows at -10 accuracy (but that can be compensated with stalkers link). Now, ranger would suffer DR reduction twice, but as long as the effective DR is less than 50% of the base weapon damage ranger will be doing more damage. Now rogue also has additional hit to crit conversion and some DoT damage with deep wounds, but these do not contribute as much and OTOH ranger has driving flight for some AoE and stunning shots that can debuff enemy deflection thus increasing your dps. This is a very rough estimation, but the damage will be definitely competitive (and the pet will give an edge in any case). That's the endgame build (lvl 13+) though. Now if you're talking about top ranged dps, in all honesty, it's neither.

As for scaling I feel like CC spells could also use some scaling in terms of duration and aoe if the per encounter conversion was removed, as they have significantly less of both compared to the higher level stuff. Honestly, there are multiple ways you could go about that. And then, there's also the "fun" factor, which might be more important than the "balance" factor actually. It's definitely more fun to have some abilities in each combat than to autoattack in 80% of combats and then go nova in the last one. (Not discussing rest system/supplies being broken here) It's true that per encounter spells make stuff like per encounter knockdowns a bit redundant, but the issue is that the knockdowns do not scale, while spells do. I would expect a paladin get a few more uses of FoD and a fighter to get a few more uses of knockdown through leveling at the very least. I think it's a bad design to have abilities that become bad/useless as the game progresses. Also, as I've already stated I don't like the design of non caster PoE classes at all (apart from maybe monk which could still use some work). So rather than making casters more dull I'd make other classes more fun. This is too late to change in PoE 1 in all honesty, so maybe that's something that would be possible with PoE 2.

Well, first of all cipher is not a "subpar" autoattacker as they do pretty good damage. Cipher is also not a substitute for a wizard in a party (both can solo pretty well, but that's a separate topic), cipher will usually take the role of something like barbarian i. e. he's really good at decimating crowds without tapping into any per rest stuff. There are some tricks that will keep him effective for boss fights, like using cipher drugs (carrow golan is the best one). For tough enemies you'll also need the absolute best accuracy you can get so build/buff accordingly. I'd say that in 2.0 perception and dexterity are the most important cipher stats as might is compensated by the good damage bonuses ciphers get. You'll also need some int obviously. And you can go full glass cannon and pump all 4 offensive stats of course if that works in your party. I also don't remember GM stats as I never really used her, but most companions have crappy stat distributions and ciphers are very sensitive about that, as they need very good offensive capabilities for snowballing.

I'm not sure if deathblows or twin arrows are gonna win the dps race, but I got a feeling that twin arrows are going to have the edge. That's level 13+ though, before that sneak attack is more potent than ranger's modals probably. But with the new buffed pet damage it's gonna be close overall. So overall I'd say that prior to White March rogue > ranger in terms of ranged dps, but in White March I feel like the ranger got the edge. Haven't done the math to back it up though.

I think it's a necessary mechanic to "scale" lower level spells. And with resting not really being limited in PoE it's more or less just a convenience than anything. Whether it's inherently balanced compared to martial classes - probably not, but martial classes in PoE follow the questionable D&D 3.5 tradition of being dull autoattack bots and imo should be scrapped and redesigned completely for PoE2. If lower level spells did not become per encounter they would probably need some sort of level scaling instead (even D&D has this).