Brimsurfer

I already said we are not talking about KWs I know how they work, the attribute spread that works for them mostly goes against the game's recommendation for Paladins and I don't feel right doing that..........so I ain't playing KWs......I want to play the game the way its meant to be played as per game instructions........

Paladin is not a damage dealing character and the game says Perception is not important for Paladins, so I am going to keep it at average score of 10 or 12 Are you serious? ............ Are YOU serious? (that's more to the point)

That's because my experience with this class is going against what I am being told......and I am not very happy about that ................................. EDIT: And no wonder you think you can't hit anything with a 10 PER. You have a pally with plenty of HP due to the 14 CON and plenty of Might with which to do damage (and healing), but a reduced ability to hit things with that low PER. Your pally would have been better off if you'd flipped the CON and PER scores. Game tells me Resolve, Might and Constitution are important for Paladins, it doesn't list Perception amongst the preferred attributes for Paladins, so you are wrong I SHOULD NOT need Perception for my Pally to be effective as per game.....I am playing it the way game is telling me to, so having average Perception should work......

Paladin is not a damage dealing character and the game says Perception is not important for Paladins, so I am going to keep it at average score of 10 or 12, its meant to be resilient support......

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful....... ............... 'cause if you wish for him to output more single target DPS than a specialized monk or rogue, or AOE DPS than a barbarian, I think you're chasing a fleeting dream. When did I ever say that I want him to do single target DPS? I have already said it many times what I want him to do.....scroll up pls.... That was merely an example. You're deliberately being a huge pain in the ass towards people actively trying to help you out with building the character in a way you would like. So, I'm out, enjoy trolling your own thread. Nobody is trying to help, I can honestly say that at this point, they are just telling me fairy tales probably because they didn't like what I said about Paladins......probably Gromnir is the only one who has shown some sense....but rest is just fairy tales...... Zealot love is ruling the day here and nothing more....

That's because my experience with this class is going against what I am being told......and I am not very happy about that

Hmm....I am running with Shieldbearer (Not sure why he is called Shieldbearer doesn't have any Shield related talents or abilities) M 14 C 14 D 10 P 10 I 13 R 16 I figured since I will be at front so I would need some Constitution but still my health runs out before Endurance and I barely hit anyone even with accuracy buffs and my fighter is my main tank and monk is more like a resilient destroyer , i dont know WTF is this Paladin he literally can't do crap except for casting his zealous aura.... I don't think this attribute spread that I am rolling with is bad, its in accordance with what game told me should be good for a Paladin, it would have worked on any other front line defensive character, my priest has got almost similar attribute spread and he is one of the most important members of my party....... Now we are going back in circles here, I don't want a different character I just want his presence on the battlefield to amount to something, other than just standing around and casting zealous aura........................ and all the things that he is capable of doing, my priest is already doing all those things and then some...... And the things you have mentioned here I have already touched upon them previously in this topic so repeating them doesn't help me......and in IE D&D games Paladins were not so useless as they are now, they were divine warriors back then, kind of like 80% Fighter 20% Priest but PoE is different there is no divinity in this game and the idea of PoE Paladins is sort of different from D&D Paladins although to some there might be some similarity....... And the only reason I mentioned that I probably would be better off with a druid or ranger is that since everything this Paladin can do, I have a Priest who is doing it better so what use is this Paladin to my party, in that I was thinking that I would probably be doing better with a Ranger or a Druid as they bring something to the table that I can use..... And Paladins are not jack of all trades, honestly i have found its either priests or chanters but not paladins........... It seems like nothing useful is coming out of this thread, people are just repeating what has been said previously and I am forced to make similar responses......I guess Paladins are what they are in this game and I find them quite underwhelming and that's the long and short of it......

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful....... ............... 'cause if you wish for him to output more single target DPS than a specialized monk or rogue, or AOE DPS than a barbarian, I think you're chasing a fleeting dream. When did I ever say that I want him to do single target DPS? I have already said it many times what I want him to do.....scroll up pls....

I've said before, whether here or on other recent pally-related threads that I think that the paladin order talents (for the player usable orders) are rather weak, and IMO aren't really worth taking when compared to generic talents or some non-order related paladin class talents. .............................................. They are what they are, at least until PoE2 comes out, if and when that ever happens. What would be a good attribute spread for a Pally in PotD, IYO and which order would you recommend other than KW?......honestly just trying to figure out, if I rolled it wrong... And my expectations of Paladins are not too high, I just want them to contribute in one way or the other same as the other party members, but at the moment it seems like the only thing my Pally is good for is zealous aura and that's about it and that's not really much considering I could have a Druid or Ranger in his place with all their abilities at my disposal, as I already mentioned before... Btw Priests do have an ability that removes pretty much all conditions can't recall its name, also charm , dominate and confusion these spells have never really given me much trouble anyway.......and casting Prayer against Treachery right at the start of the battle against enemies who inflict these conditions, takes care of it and by the time when duration is about to run out you can refresh it again if needed, but normally you won't need to refresh it because by that time most of monsters would be dead if not all.....

what difficulty level is this? and what's order of your main? ...... just trying to figure out why I can't make my main Pally work....Pallegina is great I agree, specially as her order skills are entirely unique and useful.......

I thought that the notes were coming out yesterday it was mentioned by one of the Devs above, still can't find them anywhere.........

Monks are not over powered, ever tried playing a dual wielding full offensive Fighter in medium or heavy armor? Its just that some of the other melee classes like Rogue (melee), Paladins and Chanters (melee) are underpowered when compared against monks. I know Pallies and Chanters are sort of support classes but I am talking about overall usefulness of melee classes (considering Chanters melee because of high base deflection and some of their invocations have really short cones but that can be just my opinion).......... Also Monks have one obvious playing style and that is of a destroyer, put good DR and Constitution on them watch them pulverize everything, this is not so obvious with Fighters because they are normally used as damage takers but if you build one offensive Fighter, you'll be surprised how quickly he destroys stuff....... makes skulking in shadows with a melee rogue look utterly useless..... Paladin and Chanter? I see no logic in these two classes, instead get a Priest and Wizard for dispels and CC and send your Monk and Fighter into fray and watch your enemies fall apart... Talking about PotD (I find other difficulties quite easy, its possible you might find some of the underwhelming classes mentioned above, performing reasonably well on lower difficulties)

Hey guys don't forget those F'ing Ondrite Monks, specially the ones at the north camp in Caryon's Scar (not saying the ones at the monastery lower level were a cake walk, but these guys at Caryon Scar are over the top)......I say F' those....they really need to be dumbed down a bit and brought in line with rest of the WM2 difficulty......these guys made the fight with High Abbot look like a stroll through Eden....

Its funny, to talk about God how everyone's going back to the faulty Christian concept of God, where Romans tried to merge Polytheism with Monotheism, where God is 3 and is 1 as well........lol. Its not what the followers of Jesus believed in, at least for 250 years or so after his passing.........and then the Romans came up with the bright idea to twist his teachings and put their claim in on a share in divinity ...... Anyway, this has nothing to do with the topic though......i just hope another RPG from obsidian doesn't carry this crappy cliche.....btw is there a limit of pages or posts for a topic?

Stopped caring after reading this........

Pallegina is awesome now and her utility is great and her two order specific abilities are quite excellent unlike the Paladin orders that are available to players to play except for may be Kind Wayfarers........I used her with two handed melee weapons, bound Grey Sleeper to her and gave her consecration boots and she totally pulled her own weight and even then some ..............she was a formidable presence on the field and rolled like a boss however I cannot say the same of the Paladin orders available for players to play......... I find Bleak Warrior undesirable to play because there is a head item in the game that does exactly what Black Path does and you don't have to land a killing blow either, it just does it when enemies are in range...... Dracozzi seem alright but not sure why Inspiring Liberation doesn't work on them, specially when you consider chanter and priest buffs affect everyone including themselves.. Goldpact knights there are several items in the game that does what Bond of Duty does, so whats the point? Shieldbearers, I find it crap that they do not get any bonuses to their shield wielding ability and Sheilding Flame is not so good since it doesn't boost the paladin himself unlike chanters or priests......... Also my biggest disappointment with Paladins is that they are supposed to be a melee class for the most part but they don't have any close quarter combat class talents at all..... I know they are meant to be melee support characters who can take on some damage but nobody attacks them and player Paladins specially the tanky ones are terrible at hitting stuff (on PotD) also. and by the mid game with priest buffs and chanter buffs your party is basically shrugging off most CC attacks launched by enemy so there is really not much to be dispelled either so seriously what's the point of this class? Can Paladins be reduced to Zealous Auras only? I mean I am still trying figure out how to play this class so that it makes a difference.....Priest prayers against special effects like fear, charm, confusion are all fast to average casts and can easily be maintained throughout the whole fight, if one keeps an eye on the timer.......so I don't see much utility in Paladin's abilities..... Yes a Paladin can still outshine other classes only when the player is partial to over play them and under play the rest of the classes well below their potential......at least that's what I have found out so far with my Shieldbearer........ PS. I am still sharing my experience, which is going totally against what some of the people are saying and I am not trying to make an statement by any means.....

Monks are frontline power houses, kind of like dual wielding full offensive fighter in heavy plate.......except they use fists and have some aoe spells.....in this game you can't roll with monks in light or no armor on higher difficulties, at least I couldn't but once I gave her some decent DR she is absolutely rocking the battlefield......I also couldn't play with Zahua effectively myself, the first time I played WM1..... Give your Monk good DR, Might and Constitution and then watch him level the battlefield, I haven't tried retaliation on my monk yet but I am thinking it would work nicely on her, since she gets hit quite a lot.

Hmm....I just wish I could figure out how to make this class effective in comparison to others, I really wanted to play a Paladin, but anyway.... I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with you either..... Maybe you need to start by telling us what you think "effective" means for a paladin. Different people can have different definitions and that creates different expectations. i have already said it.......

Hmm....I just wish I could figure out how to make this class effective in comparison to others, I really wanted to play a Paladin, but anyway.... I know what you are saying and I don't disagree with you either.....

How come he lead the team in damage output? Also I find my fighter almost indispensable, he is fulfilling the role of a proper tank and neither monk nor rogue can outshine him at that......

Yea I know all of this, I read it all before, but now that I am playing a Paladin myself, I am quickly finding out that these are just words and nothing more.........and my experience is entirely different from these words.........also the priest is doing way better than him at everything......pretty much every class is contributing way more than he is to the party.... he just stands there and looks pretty, the only thing he is doing right now is to provide zealous aura which is not much considering I could have a druid or a ranger in his place with all their skills and abilities at my disposal .....

I never expected to be an offensive beast as a Paladin........he is just simply passingly mediocre at everything......and the things that you mentioned about Paladins, honestly they are not so grand or useful as you are saying........I mean from what I am seeing right now in my playthrough, I can honestly do without it...

I am talking about PotD, but no matter the difficulty, still even on Hard how the hell a shieldbearer had the highest single target and total damage against classes like Rogue, Ranger, Cipher, Druid, Wizard etc? Don't think you used the other classes right because its against the current game mechanics I believe....

there is one here that is supposed to work with post 3.0 save games, I haven't tried it myself though.....

Everyone recommends Kind Wayfarer for the heal mechanics, however the reason I am not playing Kind Wayfarer is that, to be able to efficiently score killing blows one must employ a build with low Resolve, as I have been told that high Might and Perception are pivotal attributes for that build and I think this will allow one to have only mediocre Resolve as some attribute points would need to go towards Intelligence too, I believe....... However, I want to play a Paladin with high Resolve, so I opted for Shieldbearer of St Elcga but I was disappointed to find out that his Shielding Flames don't affect him at all and he is barely able to hit anything and when he does, he barely scratches the opponent with it........he is not even able to engage enemies effectively, even though he is meant to be a 'shieldbearer' (whose job is to protect and get in between his side and the enemies, with his shield). I can't tank crap with him because nobody attacks him they just run past him even though he doesn't have particularly high Deflection like my fighter or high DR like my monk...., and he doesn't even have any disengage counter like Fighter's knockdown and he also doesn't have any offence, so he basically doesn't do anything on the battlefield except casting his zealous aura and running after enemies who pretends he doesn't exist........and this is honestly nothing in comparison to all the damage or mob control I would have had if I was playing another class like a Ranger or a Druid..... IMO Shieldbearer of St Elcga sucks at least this is what I have experience so far......... not sure about the other Paladin Orders though, are Bleak Warriors or Dracozzi Paladini or even Goldpact any good? Or is Kind Wayfarer the only viable Paladin choice for PotD? Thanks