Walsingham

Your other option would be the bullet caromes off the protection and straight through your femoral arteries, that run straight past your groin.

In the crapper? What on Earth are you talking about? Have you ever actually been abroad? Look, get your skinny patuchas over to ...I dunno... Mozambique. Get some sun, get some exercise, get some prime seafood, witness a country struggling with 10% HIV infection, get your legs blown off by a landmine, then we'll talk about crapper.

I think he should put a cute bunny on it. That would scare me more. That or a sandwich. If you don't mind my saying so, you seem to have spent a small fortune on personal protection this year. Ever considered taking a holiday. The absence of stress may result in you being less of a loon.

I can't quote any studies on the subject but it seems to me that most of the individuals engaged in these acts in teh past have given many years notice that they were as barmy as a box of balm. If your objective is to stop gun-armed loons then irrespective of the general laws on firearms would it not be sensible to have some cross-checking against a well-prepared database of crackpots? Woud it not also be a wise plan to go further and to ensure better provision of better quality _borderline_ nut-care?

Being a designated crotchety old timer I have no problem with blaming the 'me' generation except the obvious one: it might explain graffiti, sex crime, and the ozone layer but it doesn't explain pathological violence. What I DO feel confident blaming is a total lack of emergency planning by Virginia Tech. All large US corporations are expected, and indeed have, terrorist incident plans*, that would have prevented the latter incident. These mean clearly defined pre-existing plans of information and evacuation. However, the University only tell everyone TWO HOURS after the first incident that something's going on? This may be typical of the way university authorities treat students, but it does not excuse it. I would urge all of you to ask your own institutions what the hell they would do under the circumstances, and if possible to contact the local police to sort something sensible out. *I'm not saying this was a terrorist, just that the plan would have helped.

I reckon we should make racist statements about all Australians. Meta's an Aussie. I bet he's a billionairre geriatric media tycoon. Yah! In fact I think it's about time all Australians made it more clear that they don't condone Murdoch type behaviour in their culture.

Oh Karma, where art thou?

An interesting perspective. Note that I do not call myself a neocon. In fact I would suggest tentaively that Sando is closer in spirit to what the Neocons are trying to do: 'Protect' the US by any means necessary. Which in the view of Wolfowitz (if I recall) includes getting rid of 'sick man' regimes that breed unrest and violence. Enlightened self interest. The lack of attention from the heart of the Washington machine might also be a product of the byzantine intrigues everyone is required to engage in instead of doing their job. Or am I taking devil's advocate too far?

He's not kidding. He has this huge hat, and incense. msnook, what do you believe would be the purpose of such adverts then? Is it really just to make the odd thuggish fool hoot and eat more snacks?

I didn't mean to suggest that the flavouring made them edible. I wouldn't, for example, eat a pimento flavoured pool-cue. Biltong flavouring, though...

I agree that it seems most strange. Perhaps they intended to scare her into telling them who the real culprits were. All seems very peculiar. However, it has now been overshadowed by the breakup of Wills and his girlfriend. You'd think a bloke had never split up with anyone before.

Gorgon, you are correct. I was waffling. I think if I tried again I would make more clear that I feel the issues of general gun control, and trying to prevent psychotic rampages are very different. The former may not be relevant, and the latter is not an issue of solely being about guns. In any event, I hope stratfor.com will excuse my quoting from their report: (they won't of course) "U.S.: A Well-Planned Shooting Spree Summary At least 32 people were killed April 16 when an individual or individuals went on a shooting spree at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University campus in Blacksburg, Va. This was obviously an attack for which the killer prepared, and the high killed-to-wounded ratio suggests the killer was skilled and thorough. Analysis At least 32 people were killed April 16 when an individual or individuals went on a shooting spree at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University campus in Blacksburg, Va. The shooter reportedly used two 9 mm semiautomatic pistols to kill his victims, many of whom were lined up and shot. The first shooting occurred around 7:15 a.m. local time on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory, where one victim was killed. The second shooting occurred approximately two hours later in Norris Hall, an engineering building. The gunman reportedly entered the building, chained the doors shut behind him and moved from classroom to classroom executing students. This was obviously an attack for which the killer prepared. The high killed-to-wounded ratio suggests the killer was skilled and thorough. Police were still investigating the first shooting at the dorm when the other shootings occurred. It is possible the killing in the dormitory was meant as a diversion to occupy police while the gunman moved on to his primary target, Norris Hall. Within the last two weeks, there were two separate bomb threats against engineering department buildings at the university. These could have been a form of preoperational surveillance to gauge the response times and procedures of university police. Unconfirmed reports coming from Blacksburg have identified the suspect as an Asian individual in his mid-20s. In all probability, the delay in identifying the culprit or culprits is because the intelligence community is running foreign and criminal intelligence traces on the suspect(s). Police believe the shooting spree might have been the result of an off-campus incident. They are not certain whether the suspect was a student, nor have they ruled out the possibility that he had accomplices. Arrests reportedly were made this morning. The largest killing spree on a U.S. campus until this incident was in 1966, when Charles Whitman killed 15 people in the clock tower at the University of Texas at Austin. In 1999, two high school students in Columbine, Colo., killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives."

I think it may be in rather poor taste to turn this into either a pro or second amendment debate. NOt to mention precipitate before all the fact sare in. In some alternate reality where anyone wanted my opinion: 1) A gun is a device that can magnify the killing power of an individual. I do not think this can be in question. 2) Merely arming everyone without properly training them would be utterly pointless. I personally don't see why anyone who takes a gun proficiency and safety examination shouldn't own one. Like with cars. The notion that an untrained bunch of english majors with .38s could effectively deter anyone who has prepared psychologically and materially for a rampage seems pretty silly. 3) We have psychos who go on rampages with samurai swords and the like. These too are pretty dire and deadly, although I will concede they are less so. 4) If a psycho decides to kill a bunch of people they can be counted upon to do so, using natural human ingenuity. I would suggest that on the whole we would do well to consider more seriously the mental health of the population than try to safety proof everything to the level required to stop maniacs. I once did volunteer work and discovered that one of the day release patients had critically wounded an orderly with a fork.

So? I was once so hungry I ate a whole packet of toothpicks. Hopefully you cooked those, too. They seem like they'd be edible if boiled like spaghetti to soften them up. After three days you just set to chewing them up into small enough bits. They were spearmint flavoured.

There is no shortage of examples of countries left to 'get better on their own', such as Somalia, Afghanistan (prior to the invasion), Cote D'Ivoir, to name a few. They don't get better. They stay locked in an endless cycle of violence, and total degradation. The only way they ever escape is by imposition of order. If that order is imposed domestically it occurs through some bastard hauling himself up to the point where he has sufficient military strength. This typically occurs through the most brutal means, and often collapses under its own rapacity. The alternative, as was demonstrated in the balkans, and as we were doing in Afghanistan (before we became confused about the importance of civilian aid), is armed intervention in the conflict, regime change, and gradual stablilisation. This collapses when the apathetic fidgety masses get distracted by a new pair of shoes, and demand a pull out. To use an analogy, you are advocating what amounts to a Christian Science approach to teh health of countries, whereas I recognise the facility of surgery and medicine. What we are witnessing in Iraq is the consequence of our opening up a patient, then - because they're having a crisis - we just walk off without even suturing them up. Azarkon, you will no doubt have noticed this is not a million miles away from the Neocon position on Iraq in the first place.

What possible purpose could this have served? Maybe the wardrobes caught fire and the good people attending the party were just trying to put them out. This would gel with the fact that someone had been stubbing out cigarettes on everything.

So? I was once so hungry I ate a whole packet of toothpicks.

Azarkon, you make a fair point which is that I can come across too strong in favour of the US administration's given reasons. For e the entire concept - and entirely worthwhile concept - was the removal of the Hussein dynasty, and the liberation of Iraq. On teh other hand thsi does not mean that we should ignore the mental challenge of debating whether WMDs really were present. However, on this particular occasion I was wasting my time trying to draw Sando into a logical debate. Which is as fruitful as trying to beat a fox terrier at poker. He doesn't appear interested in playing the game. Any man who argues we should get out of Iraq should first (in my opinion) acquiant himself with the details of what happened in Rwanda. Because a full ethnic war in Iraq will make Rwanda look like a rough Friday night on the town. I find it unbelievable that anyone could face the reality of what that would mean without outrage and an insistence that something be done. Except of course it will be too late. The behaviour of a few thousand insurgents should not mean you abandon the millions who are NOT attacking the authorities, and are in fact daily providing intelligence that permits counter-insurgency strikes. Or would you like your own country's destiny to be decided by the 'free' militia nutcases up in Wyoming? Moreover any line of logic which will take you into war with China is completely redundant.

Agreed. He wasn't even particularly religious, initially (or arguably at all). He was in the process of building the largest mosque in the world, as part of his new image as Arab religious leader. I wouldn't be surprised if he harboured a desire to become the Caliph of the Ummah. A mosque with scud shaped minarets, no less. You can't argue with the fact that he took the mad dictator thing seriously.

Like nettles?

I see. Well, that's why God invented private investigators.

She could have been high by the time it kicked off. EDIT: seems to me like a good time to pick up a house cheap in a very nice bit of the country, if they eally are selling up.

But Fox programming is usually so classy!

What in the name of Sainted Norah is a Bluebie?