GhostofAnakin

No.

Really? Was Bastila AND Carth present when both these cutscenes played? No. You seem to refuse to read what I said. I said where is the proof he SAW both of them with Revan. BOTH OF THEM. Not Carth, not rumors about a swoop race, but BOTH OF THEM WITH REVAN. There is no actual dialogue or cutscene proof. How the hell does that answer what I put forth? I didn't say a thing about where someone lives. I said Revan knew Malak had been to Dantooine, thus he'd know where the Jedi Enclave was. My God, that answer was ridiculous.

But again, that's speculation. I'm not saying that isn't plausible, but I'm saying there is NO VISUAL PROOF that Calo saw you leave Taris with BOTH Carth and Bastila. Yes, he probably put two and two together. But you wanted proof with my explanations for Kreia (ie. actual dialogue or cutscene proof), yet in this case there is also no dialogue or cutscene proof. Revan lost his memory, but when he, Bastila and Carth found the Star Map in the cave on Dantooine Bastila stated, with Revan present "this must have been where Malak and Revan began their journey", which means Revan (the memory less one) would have known Malak knows where Dantooine is. Thus, he shouldn't have worried one way or another about answering Saul's comments. No clue. But according to Mothman, K1 had much less. That's 3 plotholes already and I haven't played the game in over a year.

You're speculating on the first one, just like you pointing out I was speculating on Kreia. There was no proof either through dialogue or cutscene that Nord actually saw you with Carth and Bastila. And put it this way, if Carth was in your party in both the cantina meeting AND with Canderous at Davik's, there's no way Calo knew Bastila was with you. Which then brings up the fact that Bastila was shocked if you told Karath the location. She would have said "it's no big deal, Malak already knows since he was there before". But she acts as if you just betrayed a huge secret that Malak wouldn't know. Not to mention Revan would know Malak has been there, since it was said that Dantooine is where him and Revan found the Star Map.

I'll get you a list. It's been a while since I've played K1, as opposed to K2 being fresh in our minds. If I don't respond to this, remind me in a PM in about a week. One off the top of my head though is Calo Nord telling Malak that Revan escaped Taris with "a republic officer and a Jedi" when it was impossible for him to have know about the two of them since when you meet him at Davik's, Canderous is in your party which means only ONE of the two would also be. Another BIG one is how Malak gets Saul to ask Revan where the Jedi Enclave is. Considering Malak and Revan found the Star Forge map on Dantooine, you'd think Malak would know this. That's two major ones off the top of my head after not playing a game for over a year.

Again, I've never stated there are NO plotholes. So far you guys are harping on about 9 or 10 (some of the VERY minor variety) and using that as conclusive proof. I can come up with 10 plotholes in K1. Is that proof that my argument is more solid? No. It just means that games in general have plotholes. So I'm not sure why you're holding K2 to a standard higher than that found in K1.

Neither did the droid planet. All that was there was to resolve the HK-47 vendetta against his lesser clones. We already knew who sent them after the Exile, so it didn't affect the actual plot other than HK's sidequest. I can't speculate on what would or wouldn't happen if the cut content was in the game. As for why just Mira, because she's a bounty hunter. Kreia probably believed she had the best chance of hunting down the Exile's whereabouts, whereas the others would just get lost on Malachor V.

2. I have no clue what he's even referring to, so I can't explain what happened. 4. I mentioned that one to him already 5. So was Sleyeheron. 6. that's cut content, it's not a plothole. I asked for plotholes, and that particular plot makes sense 9. she wanted to keep Mira from joining the Exile in the Treyas academy so that the Exile would have to face Kreia alone and "complete his training".

Who knows? Kreia works in mysterious ways. What bounty hunters thing are you referring to?

1. I already stated that one for you 2. How is the Ebon Hawk one a plothole? The Malachor one, again, I gave you that one 3. that's 1 4. What bounty hunters? 5. Cut content. 6. How is that a plothole? I understood the whole point of that. T3 locked the nav computer so that you (the Exile) wouldn't be able to know where Revan went. Nothing about that is a plothole. 7. I gave you that one too 8. It's not a glitch or plothole when IT CAN BE SOLVED. You even admitted it can be. 9. Because Kreia wants Mira killed.

Oh and one last thing about the tech forum and how many pages they are at, K1's only at 78 pages, while Obsidian has 97 pages. However, if you look at each forum, K1's tech forum holds FIFTY (50) threads per page, as opposed to the FIFTEEN (15) per page on here. You do the math.

Correction, Battlewookiee has provided examples. You've tagged along with his evidence with your "yeah, see right there!" without actually providing anything but your opinions. The fact you simplify GoTo's backstory to what you just did is proof you overstate things to fit your argument, but understate them when they contradict your argument. I'm pretty much done with you because every response is basically in response to Battlewookiee's posts since he's the only one that has provided a thing.

Straw man. I didn't implicitely say K1 had more glitches. I said that if you go to their tech forum you will find that they too had a "boatload" of glitches. My main point was K2's glitches aren't some unnatural phenomenon in the gaming industry that only happened in this game. I'm still waiting for YOU (not battlewookiee. it's a lot easier to provide an argument when you have people helping you with it) to list the "many" plotholes. So far you harp on the Hk factory. That, and the ones I even listed for you amounts to "many" plotholes?

I think his job takes him away on business for weeks at a time. That's why you'll see him postwhore for about 3 weeks straight, then disappear for about 2 or 3 weeks straight afterwards.

You didn't get his full dialogue did you? Because, as useless as I found him as a NPC, he actually had one of the more fleshed out and deep backstories of any of them.

How many patches did it take? That's one thing you can fault Obsidian at, is patches. But K1 had a lot of issues as well before they released all the patches. And like I said, even if I concede the "glitches" part, he's (note how my post was directed at him since he was the one who originally made it "fact" that K2 was inferior) yet to explain how. Voice locked navi-computer? How is that a plothole? HK factory was CUT early on. That's not a bugged quest when they fully intended for it not to be included. In that case, like I said, Sleyeheron is also a bugged quest in K1 since there are hints at it when you talk to Yuthura AND if you choose to redeem her and talk to her back at the Jedi Enclave. Malachor V is a mess. I'm one of the first to say so. Thus I have no arguments against the unresolved things that happen on there. But one planet does not make an entire game inferior.

I'm still waiting for the "many" plotholes. And your reasons for thinking the party members were deeper in K1.

http://swforums.bioware.com/viewforum.html?forum=80 Feel free to tell me that every single one of those 80+ pages of problems was solved or that only one or two people experienced them. Btw, I still have no clue how you became moderator when the majority of your posts are focussed on pointing out how poor a job Obsidian did with this game.

Did I or did I not say that there are glitches. My contention was the use of the word "boatload". That's very subjective on your part, since not everyone experienced all those glitches. I gave myself as example of one that didn't. And even IF I concede the glitches part (K1's galaxy droid anyone? but who's counting), that still doesn't address the other things I asked you to provide proof for that you insisted K2 did poorly. The HK quest? Considering they dropped that quest from the game, it isn't broken. That's like saying the Sleyheron quest with Yuthura Ban (which was touched upon and which was supposed to be in K1) was also a "broken" quest since the planet can still be found in the K1 files.

Read before posting. Every single bug is a gameplay one, and no technical. Nobody finds them? How can I make that list then in 2 times through??? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And I'll repeat, I can do the exact same thing with the K1 technical forums. Funny how I've played through the game 4 times now and either didn't run into those problems, or they were so minor that I didn't notice them otherwise I would have bitched about them.

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=329328 (Must be atleast 5 pages if you mean a screen full for "page") <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not everyone experienced those. I can go to the K1 forums and check out their tech forum and link more than 5 pages of technical issues people had. When someone says a game has a boatload of glitches I'd expect they are glitches that the vast majority of gamers ran in to, not just some people.

Bad ending? Agreed. Plotline had many plotholes? Disagreed. It had some. If you can point out what you believe to be plotholes, you'd better list off quite a few since you insist the word "many". So if you name one or two, this proves yet again you exaggerate. Incomplete sidequests? As far as I can remember, there were two. The fuel thing and the two bounty hunters on the surface of Telos. Oh and the Jedi redemption on Dantooine. None of which had a MAJOR effect on the overall game. boatload of glitches? Again, define "boatload". In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches. Zero. That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples. And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload. In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part. Longer Loading screens? Debateable. I didn't notice a difference. But even if I gave you this one, who cares? You're comparing the game to JE for Game of the Year, don't forget, so even IF K2 had longer load screens than K1, that's irrelevant since JE had even longer by a MILE loading screens, especially in that arena portion when you had to sit through half a minute long load screens after every fight. Influence not working right? Wrong. It works as Obsidian intended. It's not Obsidian's fault that some people thought it would work a different way. But regardless, this one is subjective and thus can't be used as "proof" one way or another. K1 has deeper NPC party members? Really? How? Kreia was the deepest character, outside of the PC, in EITHER game. Mandalore, HK and T3 were the same character, thus their backstories are the same in both. Atton was MUCH more fleshed out that Carth. Visas was more interesting than Juhani. Hanharr was much more fleshed out that Zaalbar. The only interesting party members in K1 were Jolee and Bastila.

Well Kreia did say that Revan made sure to not bring anyone he had attachments to. If he thought of Zaalbar as nothing but a tool to further his cause, then he'd have no emotional attachment to him and thus might bring him along. I understood the reason Revan didn't bring Bastila and Carth because both were possibly romance options (depending on if Revan was male or female) and those "attachments" might cause Revan weakness.

I don't really have an answer for this. I can speculate just as well as the next person, but is this really a *major* storyline flaw? I mean, Zaalbar isn't what I'd call a major character. I know, I know, this is me nitpicking again, but a *major* storyline flaw would be if they didn't mention Bastila or Carth. I'd consider this a minor continuity issue at best.

But that's just my point. You disregard that K2 had a bunch of new features, such as Influence, more Force powers, more use of skills, prestige classes, the addition of gender-based NPC party members, the addition of alignment-based NPC party members, deeper NPC party members, 5 of the 7 planets were new, etc. Had K2 had none of what I listed, instead having a new story and NOTHING else, then I'd agree with you to say that K2 was too much like K1 to stand on its own. But since it took many aspects of K1 and improved upon them, plus adding new features that K1 didn't have, that's enough to make it stand on its own. Sure it's your opinion, and of course you're entitled to it. But it's when you throw in false facts to back up your opinion (ie. trying to say that K2 really didn't add much that K1 didn't already have) is when I take issue. Because like or hate the game, you simply can NOT argue with the above improvements and features that K2 brought to the table.