Volourn

"10: Neverwinter Nights (without the expansions)" Not bad for a game that was worthy of a 75%.

I've ehard that while the game(s) seem to eb fun that there is very little (actually none) role-playing in it at all. That's too bad for a game hyping itself as a RPG. Still though; it sounds like a series that would be a lot of fun if it actually existed; but alas it doesn't... at least not where I am...

Bah. Episodes 1 and 2 are pretty much as good as Episodes 4-6. People overrate the original trilogy, imo. They both have their silly moments. Outside of Jar Jar Binks, and a few other things; E1&2 are solid mobies. Not great; but not horrible much like the originals.

Ok. I admit it. I was the evil one this time.

"In fact D&D makes provision for playing more than one character in a small groups and it's something that a lot of roleplayers have no problem at all with. " I have seen many people play and control multiple characters; but I have seen ZERO role-play multiple characters. There's a big difference there.

First off, my post no longer makes sense somone the post I responded to disseappeared. Second off, Kandaff, LOL. Third off, jaguars :D .

"If people have issues seperating gameplay issues from character, thats something they really need to resolve." No, troll, you are wrong. Rople-playing is about role-playing one's character not a half dozen of the DM created characetrs at the same time. To say it has anythiung to do with any "issues" a person has is just flame bait.

"but I don't remember Aribeth's betrayal being a plot twist any more" The plot twist in reference for OC is the one where Desthar is the traitor. Anyways, the reasonw hy I think KOTOR2 has a plot twist with Keira's betryala is while they tell ya she has her own agenda no where do they say that she will actually betray the player character. In fact, they try to make it seem like while she hates everyone she is undly loyal to the PC. That's why it's a plot twist.

"You shouldnt see the template thing as a negative. It simply puts the game in the proper perspective." I don't, actually. In fact, I enjoy Scared which uses them. However, how is JE's way of using "templates" any different than NWN's pre made characters or "auto level up" stuff? To me, the kind of template you are thinking of ones where you get the character and you are stuck with as is ala Sarced which is the case for Sacred but you can change EVERYTHING about the JE characters. Hmm..

Taiwan is not a part of China no matter how much China says it is. Taiwan will gain freedom!

No on both accounts.

"Yes, so if you speak out against slavery one more time, you will get banned. The good people of these boards will not tolerate intolerance towards slavery." Warning noted...

"I don

"Or are they just making up names for each of the character looks?" Exactly. You seem to missing what a template is. Templates are what is found in Diablo or Sacred. In Jade Empire, you choose everything. If you choose, say, the Jade chaarcter model that is slow' you don't have to keep that way. You can make the basic stats anything you want unlike Sacred where the basic stats are as is. The only limiting factor for JE's creation process is the number of PC models. "think its funny someone is trying to claim that the plot in KotOR II is a plot twist." As far as I'm concerned any plot that contains betrayal of any sort should be considered a plot twist. Just because it's 'obvious' doens't stop it from being one; it just makes it a poor plot twist. Afterall, the argument here seems to be because the KOTOR2 plot twist is obvious it is no longer a plot twist yet the same people are arguing the KOTOR1 plot twist was obvious yet still cosndier it a plot twist. Talk about illogical.

"That is not "grey", its simply Order vs Chaos." Umm.. Buzz.. Youa re thinking good vs. evil, and law vs chaos axis. This isn't D&D or even SW. The point being made is that the choices involved are not black and white and the two philosphies shouldn't be mixed up for any other alignment system. That situation is 'greyish' because it's not immediately obvious which of the two philosphies the two choices belong to.

I am a troll for saying slavery siw rong and no one should own any other person? WOW! What a screwed up world we live in with being anti slavery is consideirng trolling!?! WOSSERS!

"BG2 fixed so many problems with BG2" I'm sure it did.

More stuff about the 'alignment' Drakron. This ilustratres that it is not really alignment; but 'philosphy' stuff. It's not really about good/evil.. This from Chris Priestly: "Definately moral "grey" zones. I'll give you an example that actually appears in the game (I ain't saying where, so don't ask). While exploring you come across a demon who attacks you. As you ready a killing blow, it surrenders and promises to reveal the location of a hidden treasure if you spare it's life. You listen to it's tale and once you have teh location it asks you to spare it's life. Do you: A) Kill it because it is an evil demon, even though it kept up it's end of the bargain? or B) Spare it's life since it kept it's word, but that would leave it free to kill locals? The choice you make is either Open Palm or Closed Fist. Choose wisely." Interesting... Also, as far as romances for those who care about that sort of thing, you can supposedly have gay/bisexual relationships.... <>

"I hope Volourn means the setting." I mean a lot of things - setting, rules (though it could use twinks), atmosphere, and even combat for the first part of the game. My biggest problem with the game and why I'd rate subpar is simply because I got bored trenching through the sewers. they were just big, empty, and seemingly never ending.. I never got to the second half of the game that supposedly sucks..

"So why not loby Bioware about it then, if it bothers you that much." I have told them this. Repeatedly. Same thing with the 'control non PC characters' thing as well. They ain't gonna listen to me. And, why should they? "Well unless you know of a realistic alternative that everyone else somehow missed I guess your just in for a slew of disapointments." Um. It's pretty obvious how. The same way BG2 handled it. Imoen was a very important character yet somehow the story didn't fall a part if and when she died. It's real simple. In Kreia's case for example; it's real easy. If she dies - eother by the PC or in battle - you simply shift the focus onto the other Sith lords. Any of them would have made a decent BBG with a little more depth. In KOTOR1, even if Bastila had died the PC still had to deal with Malak one way or the other. "I dont recall if JE lets you rename your characters or not, but in essence they are PC templates rather than creations." You haven't paid attention. You cna name your character as you want in JE. It's also not templates. The characters that they have named are just pre made characters much like NWN had with auto level up or the pre packaged characters that HOTU had. They're just sample ones. The biggets limiting factor for JE character creation is the lack of character models for the PC (7 last I heard). "Thank you everyone in this thread for not using the spoiler tags, and essentially laying out the entire KotOR II plot for me. I really appreciate it." Bah. They're semi spoilers, and if people would actually discuss JE like this thread was for then perhaps we wouldn't have to worry about it. Blame SP and Hades. I just follow their lead. :D "Unfortunalty from what I read they look to have a influence of mechanics and as a good/evil system is easy to understand what BioWare did was come up with a rather odd aligment axis that serves no purpose if they did not build a system around it. I dont mind aligment systems that much but they are always a complication to the game mechanics and BioWare just made one based on some weird notions." This is true. BIO probably added in due to the success of the 'Dark Side/Light Side' forumla in KOTOR. "That thing look stupid too me and it looks to be put in just to copy Final Fantasy." I like Dragonfly. As for copying FF; BIO has no reason to do so. Perhaps, they thought a flying machine would fit the JE world. "Besides it was BioWare/Microsoft marketing system that thrown the word "china", not the press covering the game. Now they sing a diferent tone ... perhaps MS is a bit afraid they will piss off the entire chinese, japanese and korean market by insulting their culture ... JE appears to being marketed to western audiences that know little to none of chinese culture." BIO has always stated that JE is a world of their own creation. They have always stated that ancient China mythology was nothing but a starting off point not that they were gonna make it exactly like Ancient China. People should stop seeing the words 'martial arts' or 'Ancient China' nad assuming it's a total recreation of a FICTIONAL China. That's just silly, and no, it's NOT BIO's fault. "Here is something over why I have so many problems with the whole thing BioWare is doing over religion and aligment in Jade Empire." Jade Empire does not equal Anicnet China Mythology. I'm sorry if that's your biggest problem with JE you've been following the wrong game. Heck, Had'es worry that BIO will have another big female bad mkaes more sense then that.

"Like I said if you dont like the design, thats your perogative, but it's a design choice not a weakness.One that goes very much hand in hand with full VO." It's a weak design choice. Period. "Wouldnt suprise me if Jade Empire does exactly the same thing as well." Maybe. maybe not. if it does; though; it be a weakness. Period.

"KOTOR would totally fall appart if Bastilla could die before her role was done , or any other plot character for that matter. Thats why everyone gets up after combat and only dies for good when their story telling duties are over. " No, it wouldn't. there are so many things BIO could have done with KOTOR even if Bastilla died during the game. Same in KOTOR2 with Kreia. Nice try though.

Soon.

LOL yes , it was. So, how 'bout Jade Empire, folks?

"Being forced to have set party members is part of the KOTOR series.KOTOR established it, and KOTOR II just continued it from there." So, KOTOR2 should keep all of KOTOR's weaknesses? R00fles! I guess they shoulnd't have bothered wityh allowing weapon swicthing or the advanced item crafting. Guess it should have stuck with the interatcing with NPCs by level stuff as well since it was in KOTOR1 as well. Uhuh... "What is it trying to hide by actually showing you how devious Kreia is and the lengths she will go to get what she wants?" Kreia isn't the only evil character in the party yet she is the only one pretends to be loyal to you. Afterall, she constantly states how she is loyal to the PC; but no one else. Let's face it. Krea was a plot twist - just a poorly done one.