Volourn

"I tried to replay KOTOR1 and failed miserably. Yet, I can see myself replaying KOTOR2 in the near or far future." Meh. Neither KOTOR is worthy of a replay.

"The game is not trying to hide them." Yes, it is. Just does it poorly. Even in the prison scene with Atton she doesn't come out and say she'll betray the PC. It's veyr much a plot twist because the game makes it appear that she is your ally so much so you are forced to have her in your aprty throughout the game. "Its not on my prefered platform and its Bioware." i can understand the platform thing; but give it a rest with BIO. You know full well if it was on PC; you'd preorder and be the first in line to buy it. You are as much a BIO fanboy as I am - even more so since you whine nonstop about them and their games and you still end up purchasing them anyways. "You son of a bitch." Yes, I am. My mother is a bitch. PS. I kid, mom, I kid. :D And, oops, if I 'spoiled' it. Though it's not a plot twist. At least if you listen to Hades and SP because it is 'obvious'.

"Your the one who is saying that Kreia is obvious. Which is it make up your mind." Something can be 'obvious' and still be a plot twist like in the OC's case. Don't confuse the issue. "If it obvious, then it is not a plot twist." Then, are you saying that neitehr the OC or KOTOR1 have plot twists? Afterall, they are supposedly obvious. Which is it, Hades? Anyways, to try to get back on topic somewhat, what do people think of the actual trailer (for those who have watched it)?

"As for me though, I enjoyed and still enjoy the prequels thoroughly because they have the same spirit and grandeur of the first movies, and they deal with the same archetypal human themes." Exactly. That's why I enjoy them and I'm not a big SW fan.

It's like a beer cap. You twist the plot and it pops off.

Ghost claimed someone was owned. That is slavery. That is wrong. Case closed.

"Buy super grenades? The only super grenade I found in that game was the thermal detonator and I never saw a merchant selling them. Also Never saw anyone of them selling lightsabers, until I sold them one." We must have different versions. <>

Um. It's Llyr. While others may not have seen it; he's probably just 'pulling your leg' or trolling in his hilarious way. :D And, Hades, I'm glad you admit KOTOR2 had a plot twist finally. " Afterall, in order to see a plot twist coming there has to be one to see which youa dmit in your post directed at Llyranor that there is.

At least read the thread, Kaftan. Read the thread.

"I think you are mistaken. When she forces herself on Atton, then heals Hanharr, and various of other small points of the game makes it obvious to the player that she will betray the PC. In NWN and KotOR Biwoare tried to use foreshadow to hint, but they really over did the foreshadowing. Bioware tries to be sneaky and failed. Obsidian right out tells the player." No.

"NWN was far far far far far worse than KotOR." No. But then, I ams aying this who bought NWN's two expansions. KOTOR is eaisly worse than NWN. NWN has better combat, better controls, better music, more replayability, better characetr creation, better characetr devlopment, and the list goes on. KOTOR has a good story that is worthy of playing once. Or maybe twice if you want to push it the good/evil way. "BG 2 was worse than BG 1 on so many levels" No. BG2 looks at BG1 and BG1 cries because it knows it is weak. BG1 has only one thing that is posisbly better than bg2. Maybe. "An Innkeeper selling +3 weapons! Freaking ludricrous. Especially when a hostile and needy army is right outside his freaking door." As opposed to BG1 where weaponsmiths are selling +2 equipment when the worse iron shortage in the Sword Coast's history is occuring? Or KOTOR1 where you are able to buy super grenades rather cheaply or even puchase lightsabres and crystals? Hahahahaha. Seriosuly, your double standards when it comes to TOB is ludicrous.

"For there to be a plot twist both the character and the player needs to not know what is going on. There was no plot twist in KotOR 2." That's nonsense. If that were the case, by your very defintion, neither NWN OC or KOTOR had plot twists. And, oh btw, the player doesn't know at the start that Kreia will betray them. Obsidian sets it up so you are supposed to think you can trust or at lasta ccept her. Afterall, she joins your party and helps you all the time. That is very much a set up for a plot twist. The problem is; it's obvious from the moment she fakes her death she is scum.

I don't want to get into BIO stuff since this is a thread about KOTOR2; but... "Bio's best game was BG 1. Their worse so far has been NWN. Their worse expansion was Throne of Bhaal." No. KOTOR was the worst game. SOU was the worst expansion. NWN and BG2 are tied for the best game. HOTU is the best expansion (though TOB is very close). That is all. P.S. I blame Kirottu for making us go off topic. :D

That very much is a plot twist - just a very poorly one. Why do I call it a plot twist? Simple. Your character acts oblivious to it and pretends that Kreia is just a party member with a bad attitude or even if the PC doens't like Kreia we are still stuck to here. Another wannabe plot twist is Krea's main goal. *yawn* Or about how exactly how the PC lost his powers. *yawn* Every single RPG I have ever played has had some sort of plot twist. Every single one. KOTOR2 is no exception. And, no, Obsidian shouting for all to hear that there is no plot twist doesn't make it so.

Wow. What an ancient thread... <_< It's glad that people like things about TSL; but let the thread die,... P.S. Oops.. I didn't help matters here...

"Too bad you missed out on arguably their best game due to their worst." KOTOR is not even close to BIO's best game. Not even arguably.

No. I don't care what the legal term is for 'owning a pet'. I cosndier it taking care of an animal - much like parents take care of their chidlren - they do not own them.

"Volo, in Episode II - the acting, oh the acting..." There are maybe 2 scenes in E2 where I would say the acting was poor in comparison to most movies. Other than the, acting while not Oscar worthy isn't that bad.

There was a plot twist in KOTOR2. It was just poorly handled. Even worse than the other two games. "KOTOR wasn't any different to NwN in it's obviousness." This is where I know you are just pulling your usual stunt. "I think Developers and Publishers are hung up on these ratings way too much. They should just tell the story as realistically as possible and let the ESRB worry about the ratings." Ummm.. That's exactly how BIO handled JE's rating... "All I said there was betrayal involved in HotU's story." Every RPG I have *ever* played has had betrayal. Every single one. "but noone can deny that KoTOR is kid's stuff compared to K2" Wrong. Only a troll would claim such a thing as thinga s you did.

"Blokey in NwN and those letters you get off the assasins." No doubt here. Very poorly done. "The whole Revan thing in KOTOR" Wrong. This was well done. Sure, you may thinnk you knwo; but it's not factual. Seriosuly, I never got the chance to figure out of myself due to spoilers from the x-box version; but lots of people didn't figure it out. "Or it's blatently obvious you are being railroaded and nothing you do matters anyway." Sounds like KOTOR2 which did it ten times as worse as KOTOR1 and even worse than the OC.

Yes, Obsidian did a good job. I have some (major) problems with the game overall; but it was fun. That's all that matters. Unlike SP, I played it once through just like the original. Neither game in the series is in my top 10; but that doesn't mean I dislike them. Good stuff.

"The difference in KotOR 2 is that she was never really on your side and as the player you know this and even deep down the character knows this. At least that was my interpretation. Obsidian didn't try to insult our intelligence by making it a "plot twist" unlike Bioware." Huh? She does betray you. You'd be on crack to think of it. And, it was a twist - just a poorly done one. "Valsharess was close enough for government work and their was betrayal involved." Huh? Valsharess was not the main baddie. Not even close. As far as the betrayal, huh? She was never on your side. If you were dumb enough to think she was; that's your problem. LOL "Besides, in the way how the KotOR 2 develops there is no central main baddie. That is one of the reasons I like it. Just because Kreia is the last one killed doesn't make her the main bad guy. You aren't saving the world, the galaxy, a civilization, and other bullcrap." A. Yes, she was. Kreia was most defintely the main baddie. Afterall, she is the one who pushes the story forward. She is the one with the 'Master Plan'. The other Sith lords ar enothing but her pawns in her own game. C. You ar emost certainly saving the galaxy. Afterall, Krea's plan is tod estroy the Force along with both the Jedi, and Sith. Not to mention all the lviingc reatures as well. Were you on crack playing KOTOR2 or what? Anyways, this is about Jade Empire, and its M rating. "I can't say I'm looking forward to another obvious Bioware story, but the gameplay looks good and it's just a case of wait and see if the story is worthwhile." If you don't like 'epic stories' you won't like JE. All BIo's stories will be epic. That's just the way it is.

I for one don't know why people bash the Prequels as trash. Outside of stupid Jar Jar; I think they are just as good as the original. The problems with the originals is that they contain memories of epopel's childhoos. You know, when people were a good 15-20 years younger. I think the prequels have been as good as the originals; by far. As for the trailer, WOWSERS! If the movie holds up like that, this might be the first SW movies that will warrant a place on my favorite movie list of all time. Good stuff.

Bah. Sorry. I mistook the 'Baddie' part of your complaint... I just noticed that Betrayer part. However, the Vesharess isn't the main baddie in HOTU as you well know. So, you against female main villains, epriod? Then you must really hate KOTOR2 then since it's ANOTHER female baddie AND she betrays you. R00fles!

I doubt BIo would have had that occur as I believe Torn was schedueld for release before NWN so the Aurora Engine wasn't even finished yet plus I doubt BIo would want a game with its tech released before their own. Though; I must say that the screenshots in that link in this thread shows that the Aurora and Torn's engine shared similarities.. "Lionheart had good qualities? Where was that? Did I miss them?" Yes.