Volourn

"Thornton's first 23 games (without Cheechoo): 9 goals 24 assists, 33 points. He can't do that to others? The guy had 33 points in 23 games before being traded! It's not like he wasn't doing his part in Boston, but apparently he needed a fresh change of air." That's exactly my point! He was producing in Boston yet they still weren't going anywhere, and they are about where they were then (oustide of the play-offs looking in and no real chance at them; but not near the bottom with the true basement dwellers like Pittsburgh or Washington (just in the secon lowest tier; but not really in the play-off hunt either). I thought it was dumb that Boston traded Thornton 'cause as we both mentioned above; it wasn't like he wasn't producing there. But, see that's my point. To me, the MVP is the player who is most valuable to his team throughout the ENTIRE season; not 3/4 of it. btw, I like Thoronton, and he is awesome. A worthy MVP; but Jagr is simply more valuable to the Rangers. If Jagr was not playing for the Rangers as well as he is; not only would they have no chance at the division title; but they would likely completely miss the play-offs. Meanwhile, the Sharks would likely just miss the playoffs with a (slim) chance to make them without Thornton. And, if they just had Thornton but no Cheechoo they'd be in the same boat. Cheechoo, and Thornton are like a tag team. A tag team where Thornton is the better but both are needed. Jagr is the solo artist who dominates all.

Then why can't Thornton do that for others? Why was Boston on the way to missing the play-offs with him anyways? Also, one should note that he was producsing points wise in Boston as well to no avail. As far as I'm concerned MVPs don't gewt traded mid season. Yes, it is true, without Thornton, Ceechoo is nothing. However, the same can be said about Thornton. Without Cheechoo in Boston, Thoronton was MVPing himself and Boston out of the play-offs. Thoronton is a great playmaker; but the one you pass to has to be able to put it in the net. Without that, a playmaker is nothing. Meanwhile, Jagr completely SINGLEHANDEDLY is leading the Rangers' into the play-offs. He's also their everything. Goals, assists, GWG, plus/minus (he is now tied for the league lead in +/-; not bad for a guy who supposedly sucks at defense). Jagr is THE Rangers. No Jagr, no play-offs even with their rookie goalie. The Sharks, meanwhile, need BOTH Thornton and Cheechoo. Without either they miss the play-offs. That's why Jagr is the MVP. He is the man. While Thornton is more important than Cheechoo in regards to the Sharks' success; he needs help.

Cheechoo made himself into a 50 goal scorer. Jagr carries the Rangers on his shoulders alone while Thornton has Cheechoo to score goals for him. Jagr has no Cheechoo. If he did, he'd have 150 points most likely. Though; Thornton does deserve some look for MVP. He's definitely worthy... just not more worthy than Jagr. Let's not alsof orget the fact that Thornton was leading the Bruins to a non play spot before the trade as well (not completely his fault though) so he obviously needed the right teammates to get the job done. Meanwhile, Jagr took a team that was supposed to be dead last year, and ended a 7 season play-off droubt and they still have a good shot at a division title.

"I hate the fact that Elminster is apprently everywhere and invincible." You obviously know very little about the Realms, or Elminster. He's anything but the above too. And, it's funny in this same post you happen to mention Raistlin who as I recall makes El's power look like a gnat considering he destroys the world. "That's one area where the Bethesda writers really are better than the Forgettable Realms writers. In either Borrwingwind or Oblivion, the player can pick up a random history. The things actually read like a history. Oh, they're not like histories of old. It tries, as best as possible, to be the boring, soulless gaping black hole of an account that modern history is. ...But at least every account doesn't include some ridiculously over-powered figure who leads some super-powered army against some under-powered kingdom only to be thwarted by some uber-powered munchkin monger." Huh? That's exactly what Betehsda does. And, Bethesda writers are awful in all areas. Why? They're incapable of invoking any real emotion in players. The biggest priase for Bethesda games comes from their sheer size; not emotions. It's always 'it's so large'; not 'that was a memorable npc or quest or story' like most popular D&D games. When people talk about D&D games (which ar emostly FR) or even D&D books; it's usually x character is great, or y story is awesome, etc. "Good question, SL. i think some of it might have to do with the setting being overpowered. DragonLance might not have been overpowered enough for the folks who love the best left Forgotten Realms." That's funny.. considering a mortal in DL managed tod estroy the entire world, and only love *puke* fake* managed to get him to 'sacrifice' himself and it landed up being a fake sacrifice. DL is an ok setting; but it's way too sappy and fake. It's a soap opera with much worse writing. Tanis as well as the Twins stories are the two best (err... worst) examples of this. And, Tasslehoff is one of the worst examples at 'comedy' ever by a writer.. but, at least the characetrs there are memorable.. like many D&D characters and unlike horrible, horrible character written by Bethesda.

Yes! Knockdown and discipline are likely still in! WOO HOO! I like them a lot, and I like them even more knowing thatc ertain people dislike them. They are 100% better than the lame trip from pnp! (of course, now, Obsidian will do their upmost to remove them before release :D ) WOO HOO! "BFox Reputation system has been changed. And by changed, I mean mostly removed. Factions remain in place and can be expanded in the toolset. Not by script, unfortunately." What exactly does this mean? Factions were basically the only reputation system there was in NWN1 so uh? "Don't know if this has been asked, but: Will the merchant functionality be more robust than the current version within NWN?" NWN merchants w/expansions are very functional, and very revust. Only a few more things would be nice to be seen added to them, anyways. "Will Mage Staffs cast spells with full caster bonuses (from feats and int modifiers and caster level) as according to the 3.5 rules?" This was in NWN1 (as per 3.0 rules, of course) so I'd be mighty surprised if it wans't in NWN2. "They did, but I think we've fixed all of them. ALSO, THEY STAY ON EVEN WHEN COMBAT ENDS!" Sounds cool. The expansion fixed half the problem (keeping them going during the battle); but it being more constant until the player decides to turn it off is even cooler. The QA thing is awesome. Good chat, overall.

What did he do?

Yeah, happened to me too. BOOO! Then again, Obsidian is probably happy about that so it evens out. :D

Of course. It's part of the character creation process, and Obsidian hasn't stated or implied that they'd somehow be blocked in the actual OC.

Fear this chat as it fears me.

"am not sure what you are talking 'bout. Gromnir sure never mentioned fan made PrCs." Hmm.. I must have gone crazy as I just reread your post, and you are right. Hmm.... "also, am not sure where you is getting your info from that the old PrCs from nwn1 will be included and playable in nwn2." From Obsidian. "please supply a link." http://www.actiontrip.com/previews/neverwi...ights2_i2.phtml For someone who knows so much; one would think you would know this factual info that came striaght from Obsidian both in interviews such as this plus the NWN2 boards. Hmm.. Let's call it draw because of my earlier mistake.

"you cannot simply compare nwn2 to nwn..." NWN2 will have more PrC than NWN1. Afterall, NWN2 will ALL the PrC from the two expansions + new ones. I also find it silly for you to include fan based PrC when you are arguing in this thread that the vast majority of NWN players don't even use them. Talk about an illogical mis argument. As for PrC go, NWN2 > NWN1. This is trulty an undebatable thing. Everything else you have been saying in this thread, I pretty much agree with; but not this.

"nwn2 is gonna have fewer PrCs" This is 100% false.

"You are wrong. This contest is about making mods, yes? Or is it a user popularity contest? Oh, that's right, it's a mod making contest Bye now" The problem it's all opinion. There is no factual to determine what is the 'best' mod.

Llyr wins.. again...

"I never saw a random rogue stealing from a commoner in NWN 1, Volourn." I meant the general thing of the city being 'alive'; not exactly specific events. "I saw none of those things in NWN, unless people wandering randomly equals cities that are alive." It wa smore than just 'wandering people'.

Psionics were a part of the Realms before WOTC was even near it. Nice try; though.

"Cities Are Alive - The cradles of civilization in NWN2 are teeming with life. Children play through the street, farmers lead their animals around, and passersby walk on their mysterious business. Players will even stumble upon numerous one-time events, such as a thief robbing a commoner. In addition, frequented locations, such as the city of Neverwinter itself, will change rather dramatically between chapters." This is NWN1. "Rise in Power, Responsibility, and Renown - In NWN2, the player's journey not only expands their personal power, but also their political power. The protagonist rises through the ranks of Neverwinter society and can even become a lesser noble of Neverwinter - a full knight with land and title. The player lords over a mighty stronghold, he commands a small army, and he is the last line of defense for Neverwinter itself" Sounds cool. "Epic Battles - NWN2 will introduce a number of new and exciting boss battles to the RPG genre. There will be plenty of creatures that simply require brute force to defeat, but strategically placed throughout the story are a few more memorable boss battles that will provide defining game moments. This variety will ensure that epic key boss battles will be more challenging, more memorable, and most importantly, more entertaining." I sure hope this doesn't mean that certain bosses can only be beaten in one or two very specific ways. That is rather lame except in a very few cases.

"No they don't, or the devs would have added them" WOTC. Game devs don't matter when it comes to what fits in the Realms. IT's just that they're not exactly easy to add in a game; not ebcause they don't fit.

"Psionics are awesome ....but don't fit into the forgettable realms" Yes, they do.

Llyr wins.

"I would say Torment was too dialogue based and Icewind Dale was too combat based for masses to get interested. Bioware on the other hand is good at walking the middle lane of averageness." That could be a good exuse for Torment; but IWD is too 'combat based' for the masses? That's illogical consideirng all the success from combat based rpgs like Diablo, and the like. You would think them being based on both D&D and the engine used for BG they would be million copy sellers. "BIS was making Planescape Torment at that time." Oh really? That be mighty impressive considering the fact that PST used the IE engine... you know, the Bg engine.. so, how did BIS manage this little pickle before Interplay got BIO to develop BG? They must have used the BG2 Wish spell to accomplish that feat. :D

"Nice. Except I never did that. Where as you have not offered any plausable explanation of why Bioware got to make BG." This should be obvious. Interplay had published BIO's first game before BG1. Interplay obviously felt that BIO was a good enough developer to keep giving them work. The reason as Grom mentions that BIO got BG as well as continually get work is becausse publishers know they have the skill to make them, AND get customers to buy them. And, there were/are lots of options for people to make games. Of course, when it comes to RPGs, very few are as successful as BIO because BIO is just that damned good. Deal with this fact of gaming life. BIO isn't successful because of luck. They're successful because they are good at what they do. QUESTION: Why didn't Interplay just get BIS to make BG? Hmmmmm......... And, why were the BIO D&D games more successful than the BIS D&D games? Hmmm... Period.

"Sundin had 4 goals and 2 assists! That's what I call a clutch player" So clutch his team is gonna miss the play-offs. " That said, he had a GREAT game. No doubt about it. I think 6 points (as well as 4 goals) are the best in the NHl this season for a single game, right? Good stuff by Sundin. Bad stuff by the Rangers.

"Also for a game not forgotten there is very little inforamtion about it." For a game that is forgotten it sure is being talked about.... BY YOU! LOLOLOLLIPOP Better reread the defintion of 'forgotten'. R00fles! "Where are the screenshots," There have been some. And, yeah, they're out of date; but thena agin every time NWN2 screenshots are released Obsidian is quick to say they're out of date as well... " system requirements and recommended" We don't even have concrete ones for NWN2 last I checked. Just possibilities. ", who is its publisher" True. We don't know this. ", what classes are available" Sure we do. ", what is its rules ssytem like," We got an idea of it. Pay attention. " and other pertinent information?" Sure we do.

"It could quite easily have warranted a sequel if the sunk cost (investment so far) might turn a profit more cheaply (i.e. with less new investment) than creating new IP." Why do people here try to keep syaing that BGDA bombed? The game 9actually both games) wer e ahit. They sold over a million copies a hit. They were very successful. They were also very good action games. Just because it's not a platform you like doesn't make it a bomb. Fools. "So they are doing a LOTR ? Yeah, kind of.. Only with a much lamer story (basically organic being against artificial intelligence)." Yeah, because LOTR's story was sooooo deep... Protect the ring from The Big Evil tm. LOLOLOLLIPOP Talk about deep.. not. LOTR is successful INSPITE of the story. It's characters are its strength; not the story. "As for Dragon Age it looks like vaporware to me, a PR marketing scheme to show the PC audience that they are working on a PC game while at the same time try to entice them to buy a X Box 360." That's right. That kind fo thinking is what got BIo the success they have. By PRETENDING to developa PC game for their PC fans so those PC fans will buy a console? Hahaha. Do you even read what you post? "Bioware is releasing Neverwinter Nights again? Unless they do, I'm pretty sure noone cares that they're still "working" on it. They're not exactly bringing anything new to the table by working on an ancient, crappy title." All thhe people whoc tonie to support certainly do. And, all the people who keep buying the expansions, and the PM certainly do, and btw, that INCLUDES Hades. Saying it's crappy doens't make it's true. "The MMORPG might be for the PC, but it's still only another clue at to how degenerate Bioware is becoming. Everyone and their grandma is jumping on the MMORPG bandwagon." BIO has been planning a MMORPG for years. In fact, the CEOs stated in various interviews that it was INEVITBALE they would make one. "As far as I am concerned, the only PC title they're working on is Dragon Age.. you know.. the forgotten title that's never mentioned anywhere?" These are lies. 1. DA is not forgotten.. afterall, we're disucsisng it right now. Also, it's talked about often. Heck, this article even talks about it. For a 'forgotten' title it sure as won awards. Forgotten titles tend not to win pre release rewards. LOLOLOLLIPOP 2. NWN is a PC title. They are working on it. Therefore, you ar eblind to state what you state. 3. The MMORPG is almost guaranteed to be a PC title. That makes 3 PC titles they are working on, and 2 console titles they working. 4 if they actually are working on all ME games at the same time which I doubt. They're likely doing some pre planning on ME2+3 (likely most a base story) and concentrtaing their eforts on ME1 since it's likely due out later this year or early next. Good fun.