Darth Launch

There's been too much activity on this thread for me to be able to focus long enough to read it all through, so this isn't directed at anyone... I guess this is kinda like my closing statement since I'm about to disappear into the world of essays, reports, dissertations and exams and won't re-emerge until June/July... yes, I know, you're all going to miss me I know I'm not the most articulate in my arguments... definitely no where near as constructive either... which is probably due to my unfocussed nature, my giggliness and zen... (I bow down to you Mr. Metadigital :D )... and so I probably shouldn't involve myself too much in these sort of debates... but I did feel that it was wrong of those posting in this thread that said that those acting out violently against the cartoons were muslim simply because they claim to be... just as much as it would be wrong for people to claim that, for instance, the KKK act in the name Protestants as that is what the members of the KKK claim to be... I felt it was important for people to understand that there is a difference between actual muslims and the extremists... and I also felt that it was wrong for those to post parts of the Qu'ran in the wrong context, especially since I have read it and read it in the state that it was written free from any supposed alterations... I'm not saying I'm right... that's why I used "in my opinion" or "in my interpretation"... but nor am I necessarily wrong... and as a psuedo-muslim (being part-muslim, part-Buddhist... which is partly a result of my genetics... and yes, I'm greedy but I think they compliment each other nicely... oh, and please don't cry Mothie ^_^) I tend to question the faith more than most of you have been doing... I'm not exactly going to believe in something that I don't understand... that just wouldn't make sense... and I find the concept of blind faith stupid... so I'm aware there are lots of ancient religious laws that just aren't applicable in today's society (even in the Middle East) but it only takes a little commonsense (which is something the Qu'ran asks for in muslims... as well as what I've heard many Imams ask for too) to decide whether or not to continue with the "enforcement" of these laws... those muslims that insist on "enforcing" these ancient laws are just sadly misguided Eep... I'm being terribly rambly :"> Anyway, to answer Mr. Eldar's question (well, I think it was Mr. Eldar who asked me) about my opinion as a muslim on the cartoons... I must say that, I found the cartoons distasteful but completely unworthy of the attention they received by both the media and the extremists... every muslim I know thinks completely the same way... in all honesty, I'm so used to reading about how Islam is war-mongering and repressive and how all muslims are terrorists that these cartoons were like water off a duck's back... the people I'm "angry" with are the extremists themselves... but all I can say is that they don't speak for all of us Anyways, I should shut up now... but I hope at least some of what I said makes some sense to at least someone :"> Hope to read you all in the Summer... take care everyone DL

Made all of what up? Repressing women? I'm stating that it is not in the Islamic doctrines to repress anyone... not even women... if you choose to believe me or not then that is your prerogative... But am I stating that you are repressed in any way because of it? I don't believe I was... There's that "whatever" thrown at me again... and eep... we were arguing? And here I was thinking we were engaged in some sort of friendly debate ^_^ And I'm not an alt (who's did you think I was?) Yeh... and it's shame that people see them as one and the same Eh? Most people are prejudice... and argue in that respect too... so you're nothing special I can't exactly provide numerous conversations that have occurred over the years with people in a form that is suitable for you to pass judgement on... it is a shame, but I can only provide the general conclusions we came to as a result of them... perhaps, if you truly wanted to be enlightened you would perhaps seek out similar discussions with religious clerics and such An act of faith? When did I make such a claim... I am merely expressing my opinion and beliefs that I have come to make on a personal level... I'm in no way asking you to convert or revert to my way of thinking... why are you and others allowed to state their biased and prejudice opinion and I'm not? Is that because I don't necessarily agree with them?

Yeh and it's really sad... ...I assume and believe that this happens with most religions... but since I'm only fairly well versed in Islam and Buddhism I couldn't really say for sure

Not in my opinion If that's the case feel free to clarify things for me instead of saying "whatever" Unfortunately, that's a case of repression stemming from culture as opposed to religion... which are two different things... I know plenty of muslim girls here in the UK who have chosen to wear whatever they wish... whether they decide on a personal level to wear headscarves or not And I'm not the type to troll so please don't assume that I was Why are you assuming that I'm versed in game design? Please point out a post here in this forum that states that I am... and yes, as a matter of fact, I am versed in anicent arabic... why is that such a surprise? Is that because you assumed that I wasn't capable of such? Please clarify that for me Exactly, your unfortunate friend is repressed culturally and socially... not religiously... it's shame when people like to mistake them for one another And I've been to the Middle East and know people (both men and women) who either lived there or continue to... and I must say that from my own observations (not from what the media has told me) there are equal opportunities for both men and women... so the women are capable of learning what is right and wrong for themselves How would they disagree with me? Please feel free to provide support for that statement, as I know a lot of religious people (from most religions) and I'm well aware of their opinions and they often reflect my own And just because I'm the "first" to claim such a thing... which I didn't... I think I said on a general level they're actually consider equal... you know, things balancing out and whatnot... doesn't mean I'm necessarily wrong

They're definitely more than property... I remember reading some "story" about how "the path to Heaven lies at your mother's feet"... and how women are entitled to a percentage of their husband's/father's estate, but anything owned by the women themselves remains their own... if that makes sense... but that's just a few things I really remember about the whole women in Islam issue

There's only meant to be one "untouched" version of the text... which is meant to avoid any misinterpretations and such that come with translating text... especially ancient text Unfortunately, since it is an ancient language, people's individual interpretations differ... so the way I've interpretted it may not necessarily be the "correct" way... but I believe it will be more correct than that of something obtained from a website called "Prophet of Doom" In my interpretation, I've come to believe that women are actually somewhat "favoured" more so than men... in nearly every respect... of course, there's the seemingly repressive remark here and there... but such things occur for men too... I really think there is an overall balance in the Qu'ran though (like in most religious scriptures and such) and so does everyone else I know that's read it About the translation... unfortunately, I don't actually own my own copy of the Qu'ran and so can't really refer to it... nor do I know the Qu'ran by heart making the whole process slightly more difficult

I'm currently reading "Friday's Footprint: How Society Shapes The Human Mind" by Leslie Brothers... I'm having trouble putting this book down (I've almost finished it now :D )

Well, considering I've read the Qu'ran in the original language and context it was written, I think you'll find I'm well aware of what it says about women... it seems your source is incorrect... such a shame... nice try though I have. She outright said it sucked and heavily critised the middle east and her own people for being utterly primitive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ermm... thus proving my point? If she was a repressed piece of furniture then I very much doubt she would've even thought such a thing nevermind said that Oh... and just a little point here... middle eastern law does NOT equal Islamic law

Me like Lots of Carth... yay! ...but I think that Deralia needs more trees... "

I wouldn't call it a chick flick... but I wouldn't really recommend it to any guys I know, apart from Mr. Barlast, but that's because I am aware of his shared appreciation for Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li... I'm not sure what kind of genre it could necessarily fit in though, except for that of "meh" Ziyi Zhang's performance was equal to that of all of her previous performances... wooden at best Gong Li had the strongest performance... she's some sort of villainous beauty... and Michelle Yeoh is just awesome anyway

I saw "Memoirs of a Geisha" last night... it was fairly decent... it was kinda dragged out though and I felt that they were trying too hard for some sort of emotional response from the audience (nope... no tears were shed)... good performances from Michelle Yeoh and Gong Li though

Actually, from what I've read and know about Islam it seems that in some respects men have more "rights" yet in other respects (in fact, the majority of the cases) women do... there seems to be some sort of balance... plus, you've clearly never met or known a muslim woman before

I agree with you Rosbjerg... but in general I think the press has much more responsibility to remain impartial and truthful than that of a comedian... or am I wrong to think that?

Ooh... Mr. Metadigital! Long time no see

We watched a double bill of Burton/Depp movies last night... "Corpse Bride" and "Ed Wood"... much awesomeness I strongly suspect that there might be a viewing of "Fargo" tonight if we don't go out

You're right... no one is And about your second point... it seems the rather subtle point I was trying to get at (that clearly was too subtle) was that the vast majority of muslims are moving on... the small minority that are the extremists are the ones who continue to go on... there is a difference between two... but I guess the press has the freedom to not clarify that OMG! Let's hope he makes an appearance ^_^

I'm not even going to ask why you were on the CBBC Newsround website, Mr. Walsingham...

*yawns* Urgh... I can't believe this "debate" continues on here... I really think we're giving this whole incident more attention than it actually deserves... we're distracted from more important issues in life... the muslims (yeh, real ones! ) that I know and have spoken to about this all agree that the cartoons were distasteful, but strangely enough, are getting on with life and are more concerned about the continuing poverty in third world countries, as well as cancer, mortgages, bills and university assignments. Believe it or not, the vast majority of muslims are normal people too! Shock horror indeed. I think people on both sides (although, I hate saying "sides" since that shouldn't be the case but clearly is) should get over it and move on

Feel free to start a new thread about propaganda if you so wish... however, I don't see how it is appropriate for us to start a discussion about it in this thread... we wouldn't want to de-rail this love-in, would we? ^_^ My intention wasn't to impress you... I apologise if that's the impression I gave in my post... I don't know you and therefore I don't care what you think of me... unfortunately, I don't have my findings or results from my research here with me, otherwise I'd be happy to share them with you... I can ask to have them posted up to me if you so desired I don't believe that this forum is a democratic state as such... therefore, how does that make this thread a democratic debate? Please feel free to explain how it would work in this context though... I'm happy to admit if I'm mistaken or wrong Also, could you explain how me calling you naive in your viewpoint about the presence of ignorance and disrespect in democratic debate is a "blow" to my self-respect? Thank you... but I think you used " " by mistake there though... "

Actually, I'm not wrong... I've read multiple research papers on such things... and conducted research on it myself... propaganda only seems to have become more sophisticated and more widespread... but I'm not going to argue around in circles about that nor is what this is about... Ignorance and disrespect does not raise debate... it hinders it if anything... and you're naive to believe otherwise... and please don't patronise me with "Deal with it." The only thing I was wrong about was deciding to read this thread...

I'm not going to say since I know how silly you actors can get about that... instead I wish you "break a leg"

I'm not directing this at you specifically Mr. Barlast, but I'm quite surprised that people continue to consider this as a whole "freedom of press" thing... there's never been true freedom of press anywhere... I'm sure that there are those educated and clever enough on this forum to be aware of that... media was created as a tool of propaganda... you're only ever going to hear what someone wants you to hear about... be it your government or religious leaders... of course, that doesn't mean I agree with the over-reacting extremists or bomb threats... I'm just sick of reading a lot of ignorant and disrespectful comments

I like all forms of potato... I think I'll make some mash tonight... I just ate two pieces of toast and a banana with a glass of Vimto :D