Aurora

The sticker says "BIS Sucks." Eclecticist - BIS existed before Vampire was made, though. And in Arcanum, there are derogatory references about a place called the "Black Isle." Just because it's a joke doesn't mean they're not jerks.

Certainly, and do violent things to other male characters as well. The female characters just don't seem "excluded" from violence as was argued, although I suspect that was more of a general rant on sitcom violence or something similarly absurd. The whole dancer's outfit thing is awesome. A race of sluglike hermaphrodites are mega-turned on by skinny, scantily-clad human females. Uh. Okay.

Prediction: "what the HELL, you want every female character to be a big ugly flannel-wearing dyke?" Prediction: "So what you're lucky there were even female characters who were remotely competent in the game in real life women are basically useless." Prediction: "Handmaiden is EMPOWERED because she chooses to fight naked, stop being so REPRESSED, you CHRISTIAN." Prediction: "Do we have to make EVERYTHING SO PC NOW?" I do agree that this stuff was mostly careless and not actively skeezy, though I really could've done without Mira's Annahesque excuse for her +5 AC, 5 DR/physical handkerchief. Didn't mind Kreia so much - manipulation is a cringeworthy female stereotype, yes, but as mentioned elsewhere she's echoing the Emperor. It's the fact that she's repeatedly attacked for being a "manipulative witch" that's a tad obnoxious. And... y'know, even though it wasn't supposed to be *that* kind of love, "I killed her because I loved her" is one of the top two most disturbing lines uttered by a romanceable guy in a game. Good Lord. But hey, Mira's idea of romance is vaguely psychotic too, so I guess it's, uh, fair. Uh, yeah, I guess that's why we have an extended cutscene of Kreia getting beaten to a bloody pulp, and Mira getting strangled multiple times by Hanharr, and Visas being force choked by her master...

I was curious, too, so I looked it up. Check it out, very mature. Y'know, I was willing to pretend that the Black Isle references in Arcanum were coincidential. This... yeah.

There are multiple Revan-gender bugs, sometimes even within the same line.

Yeah, I have no idea where it'd fit in, really. It's such a MAJOR difference from all the other endings (him tortured to death/Visas death/Handmaiden or Visas standing fornlorn and abandoned while male PC walks into the sunset) that it's just kinda bizarro. Maybe you're right and he/Visas just got Viconiaed: the only "happy" endings are to not have a romance at all, with anyone. I'll just pretend that he's dead but DESPERATELY FAKING SOME EMOTION BESIDES DESPAIR, like he does with everything else.

re: Force ghosts, I briefly googled and apparently they can: -be seen by Force Sensitives -be seen when they want to be seen -or both One of the Sith Lords is still hanging out in KOTOR1 as a Force ghost, so if we're going for in-game consistency, it wouldn't be a problem for Atton to be visibly hanging out as a ghost. I am a bit perplexed at the Atton ending, admittedly. It *does* sound like it fits in at the end- but to end the game on light banter... well, that's quite different from how it actually turned out. If he were a Force ghost, it'd make more sense (WAAAH BITTER), but there's technically nothing in-game to imply that.

omg Utena luv. <3

It makes a weapon SUPER AWESOME AND NEATO! Ahem. Extends the critical threat *range,* so that whereas you'd get a critical on a roll of 20 on a certain regular weapon, you'd get a critical threat on a roll of 19 or 20, for example.

Mical, but you can't ever find that out if you play female. If he became a Jedi, you probably have plenty of influence with him. He doesn't talk much about himself.

I stab Kreia through the heart again before she can go off on her three-hour future prediction storytelling, and then my whole party runs up to me and we all hug except for HK who stands back feeling somewhat awkward, and then we all go into the unknown regions to find Revan and then Revan bumps into us and she's like "hey, I finished off those True Sith, no need to leave everyone you love behind" and we're like, hey, cool, and she goes back and makes out with Carth and I make out with Atton and then there's another group hug and T3 asks something and we all laugh knowingly. Coming soon to a mod near you.

The "real" ending doesn't appear to be entirely complete, by the way.

This thread makes me feel much more abstract.

That's sweet, thanks. I'm not denying that it might not end up as a mess, and it certainly won't be perfect, and maybe I should move out of California before both LA and Obsidian come to devour me alive for mangling their property. But it'll hopefully turn out better than what we've got now. I'd rather try and fail than just never try. Then I will have no choice but to sneak onto the ranch of Lucas himself and deliver an impassioned plea for the sake of little KOTOR2 fangirls and fanboys everywhere. "O," I will wail to him, tearing at my hair and beating my breast, "have you forgotten all that brought you to where you are? Is there nothing in you that remembers love? Is there nothing in you that remembers OUR love? Everything that I am, everything that I have done, has led me here. And you left me here alone, when I should have stayed home." Or something similarly stirring. In any case, it's possible that they'll attack.

I was talking more about the treatment of sexuality (and occasionally the use of language and violence) : pretty much always lame and immature rather than, y'know, Mature. The "surprise" did very much have a childish, Developers versus Players haha we beat you feel to it, though. The War aspects of KOTOR2 reminded me of Cold Mountain, honestly (movie more than book). As in, sure, the Jedi think they're all righteous and good, but to the people whose lives were destroyed in their war, they're pretty much the same as the Sith.

Despite certain issues I have with KOTOR2, Obsidian is one of the two game companies I actually respect. And despite certain wariness I have about NWN2 design decisions (okay, one in particular), I'll pretty much buy it no matter what the reviews say.

Disgustingly immature, some interesting characters, good voice-acting, poor story, some obnoxious bugs, some extremely well-designed areas, some extremely dull areas, poor balance, mostly annoying combat.

I have posted a request for help at Holowan Labs. No replies so far. Meshugger: Yeah, I know how very hard it'll be. Still trying.

Well, I'm aiming for "makes sense." =/

I'm wary of admitting this, but I'm a creative writing major. If this takes off, though, playtesters/logic checkers could be useful. They really haven't modded much for KOTOR1, though - but maybe they could help with the art, thanks.

We're really not sure what LA will do. I get the impression that they don't care much either way. I also want to make it very clear that this will NOT be an "ending as Obsidian intended it" mod. I don't have the resources (aka voiceclips) to change Atris to the final boss, for example. ...and, for that matter, I don't have the ability to read their minds and decide exactly what they would or would not put in the game. I'm just going off what's there, tweaking a few things so that it makes sense, and, so far in theory, adding a few things so that it's more satisfying. It's certainly not going to be a canon ending, and K3 may very well contradict it all, but hey. It's a thing.

As fun as it is to weep and wail and beat one's breast over the removed content, I'd like to try actually doing something about it. I've been piecing together the dialogues and scenes that were cut, and linking them to place, to time, and to the remaining voice clips. While I've got a fair amount of this organized, and I have enough, uh, skill to write some basic conditionals and edit dialogues (and add practice animations for my own amusement), the project overall is too much for me to handle on my own. Or rather, I could, but it'd take about a year, given that I am busy with other things and would have to study a whole lot more programming. I know there are KOTOR modders out there, somewhere. I know that it's not the easiest game to mod, but there have to be people who can create cutscenes and do more complex scripting. An artist might be helpful, too - depends on if a certain model is already in-game. I've already asked on the official KOTOR modding boards and gotten no response, so I'm getting kinda desperate here, but it's worth a try. Please PM me if you seriously think you can help.

Tons. Tons and tons. It's kind of a thing.

God, another ------- fanboy with the inability to see nuance, to appreciate the darkness and shades of grey found in real life! So it's sometimes hard to see what's going on: WELCOME TO REAL LIFE. Life is dark and hard and you can't, um, adjust it. I'd, uh, like a new color scheme too if it's at all possible. I can read fine but the black background makes me sad.