Guard Dog

You are a wise man Musopticon

You are a wise man Wals!

As to the wiretapping, yes they did try to go above the law. That is why we have an independent judiciary. The 4th Circuit Court struck down that part of the Patriot act in 2005. So the system worked after all. Actually, I am amazed. Pretty cool!

Well if they are I'm calling in sick tomorrow.

Radar/Laser detectors are also illegal in Virginia. Right?

Very true and very well put. But you see, they don't LIKE Bush. In fact some of them say the HATE Bush. And some of those people are simply incapable of reasoning beyond their "feelings". Therefore whatever he does is wrong and is only wrong because he did it. Anyway, in 2001 Bill Clinton wrote an op-ed in the NY Times explaining his use of pardons at the end of the term. He unequivocally states, and I quote: Basicly pardons and commutations are an executive privilidge and they are going to do it no matter how anyone feels about it. Now I certainly am no fan of Clinton (far from it) but he is correct. I listed his pardons as an example and he did have many, 450 total counting commutations, but Bush before him had 77, Reagan had 406, Carter had 577. GWB has 1, and everybody is in an uproar about it. Now I am not defending GWB and I am certainly no fan of his, my whole intent here was to point out the inherent hypocrisy in yelling about "Republican Corruption" and demanding the election of Democrats as though they were not just as filthy, if not worse. I've seen a few try to put a happy face on it by saying "Well Clinton did it to help people" or "The republicans only did it to make themselves rich". Both arguments are a little dumb, the people who posted those are much smarter than that. The truth is, GWB, Clinton, Carter, et al are ALL politicians, all cut from the same cloth and ALL do these things for the exact same reasons.

2 Words: Iran Contra. Crimes that compromise the national security of the U.S. >>>> possibly dodgy land deals. I wonder if the folks who had their money in Madison Savings and Loan would agree. IMHO the last GOOD President we had was Teddy Roosevelt. Only the Cubs have had a longer run without a winner. Reagan was better than most, Iran Contra not withstanding.

Thats what I like about you Sand, you are honest AND consistent.

But when the Dems do it, it's ok? Just correct me if I'm wrong here because the other day you said you wanted them back in. BTW, here is the link I got that stuff from: USDOJ Pardons

16 of those could have testified against him had they not been pardoned. 19 were for drug trafficking, 6 were for violent felonies, 7 were business associates of family members. Several were at the behest of other politicians who owed favors. What was that you were saying?

Which brings to mind the 16 names in Clinton's list who were connected to Whitewater, and could have testified against the him had they not been pardoned first. How does the corruption of Bush/Clinton/Nixon compare to each other? Just different varieties of rats.

There is no defense, I'm just pointing out hypocrisy. Sand and Pop say they hate Republicans for their corruption but have no problems with corruption from democrats. I don't think Libby deserved a pardon either.

During his 7 years in office Geroge W Bush has issues 0 pardon and comuted the prison penalty from 1 perjury conviction During his 8 years in office, Bill Clinton issued free and clear pardons to the following people: ALLEN, Verla Jean: False statements to agency of United States ALTIERE, Nicholas M: Importation of cocaine ALTSCHUL, Bernice Ruth : Conspiracy to commit money laundering ANDERSON, Joe, Jr.: Income tax evasion ANDERSON, William Sterling Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured financial institution, false statements to a federally insured financial institution, wire fraud AZIZKHANI, Mansour T. Conspiracy and making false statements in bank loan applications BABIN, Cleveland Victor, Jr. Conspiracy to commit offense against the United States by utilizing the U.S. mail in furtherance of a scheme to defraud BAGLEY, Chris Harmon Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine BANE, Scott Lynn Unlawful distribution of marijuana BARBER, Thomas Issuing worthless checks BARGON, Peggy Ann Violation of the Lacey Act, violation of the Bald Eagle Protection Act BHATKA, Tansukhlal Income tax evasion BLAMPIED, David Roscoe Conspiracy to distribute cocaine BORDERS, William Arthur, Jr. Conspiracy to corruptly solicit and accept money in return for influencing the official acts of a federal district court judge (Alcee L. Hastings), and to defraud the United States in connection with the performance of lawful government functions; corruptly influencing, obstructing, impeding and endeavoring to influence, obstruct and impede the due administration of justice, and aiding and abetting therein; traveling interstate with intent to commit bribery BOREL, Arthur David Odometer rollback BOREL, Douglas Charles Odometer rollback BRABHAM, George Thomas Making a false statement or report to a federally insured bank BRASWELL, Almon Glenn Conspiracy to defraud government with respect to claims; perjury BROWDER, Leonard Illegal dispensing of controlled substance and Medicaid fraud BROWN, David Steven Securities fraud and mail fraud BURLESON, Delores Caroylene, Possession of marijuana BUSTAMANTE, John H. Wire fraud CAMPBELL, Mary Louise Aiding and abetting the unauthorized use and transfer of food stamps CANDELARIA, Eloida False information in registering to vote CAPILI, Dennis Sobrevinas Filing false statements in alien registration CHAMBERS, Donna Denise Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and to distribute cocaine, possession with intent to distribute cocaine, use of a telephone to facilitate cocaine conspiracy CHAPMAN, Douglas Eugene Bank fraud CHAPMAN, Ronald Keith Bank fraud CHAVEZ, Francisco Larios Aiding and abetting illegal entry of aliens COOPER, David Marc: Conspiracy to defraud the government COX, Ernest Harley, Jr. Conspiracy to defraud a federally insured savings and loan, misapplication of bank funds, false statements CROSS, John F., Jr. Embezzlement by a bank employee CUNNINGHAM, Rickey Lee Possession with intent to distribute marijuana DE LABIO, Richard Anthony Mail fraud, aiding and abetting DOWNE, Edward Reynolds Conspiracy to commit wire fraud and tax evasion; securities fraud DUDLEY, Marvin Dean False statements DUNCAN, Larry Lee Altering an automobile odometer FAIN, Robert Clinton Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return FERNANDEZ, Marcos Arcenio Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana FERROUILLET, Alvarez Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering, false statements FUGAZY, William Denis Harrison, New York Perjury in a bankruptcy proceeding GEORGE, Lloyd Reid Mail fraud GOLDSTEIN, Louis Possession of goods stolen from interstate shipment GORDON, Rubye Lee Forgery of U.S. Treasury checks HAMNER, Robert Ivey Conspiracy to distribute marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute HANDLEY, Samuel Price Conspiracy to steal government property HANDLEY, Woodie Randolph Conspiracy to steal government property HARMON, Jay Houston 1. Conspiracy to import marijuana, conspiracy to possess marijuana with intent to distribute, importation of marijuana, possession of marijuana with intent to distribute 2. Conspiracy to import cocaine HEMMINGSON, John Interstate transport of stolen property, money laundering HERDLINGER, David S. Mail fraud HUCKLEBERRY, Debi RaeDistribution of methamphetamine JAMES, Donald Ray Mail fraud, wire fraud, and false statement to a bank to influence credit approval JOBE, Stanley Pruet Conspiracy to commit bank fraud, and bank fraud JOHNSON, Ruben H. Theft and misapplication of bank funds by a bank officer or director JONES, Linda Conspiracy to commit bank fraud and other offenses against the United States LAKE, James Howard Illegal corporate campaign contributions, wire fraud LEWIS, June Louise Embezzlement by a bank employee LEWIS, Salim Bonnor Securities fraud, record keeping violations, margin violations LODWICK, John Leighton Income tax evasion LOPEZ, Hildebrando Distribution of cocaine LUACES, Jose Julio Possession of an unregistered firearm MANESS, James Timothy Conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance MANNING, James Lowell Aiding and assisting in the preparation of a false corporate tax return MARTIN, John Robert Income tax evasion MARTINEZ, Frank Ayala Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service MARTINEZ, Silvia Leticia Beltran Conspiracy to supply false documents to the Immigration and Naturalization Service McCORMICK, John Francis Racketeering conspiracy, racketeering, and violation of the Hobbs act McDOUGAL, Susan H. Securities fraud, money laundering, real estate fraud MITCHELL, Brook K., Sr. Conspiracy to illegally obtain USDA subsidy payments, false statements to USDA, and false entries on USDA forms MORGAN, Charles Wilfred, III Conspiracy to distribute cocaine MORISON, Samuel Loring Willful transmission of defense information, unauthorized possession and retention of defense information, theft of government property NAZZARO, Richard Anthony Perjury and conspiracy to commit mail fraud NOSENKO, Charlene Ann Conspiracy to defraud the United States, and influencing or injuring an officer or juror generally OBERMEIER, Vernon Raymond Conspiracy to distribute cocaine, distribution of cocaine, and using a communications facility to facilitate distribution of cocaine OGALDE, Miguelina Conspiracy to import cocaine OWEN, David C. Filing a false tax return PALMER, Robert W Conspiracy to make false statements PERHOSKY, Kelli Anne Conspiracy to commit mail fraud PEZZOPANE, Richard H. Conspiracy to commit racketeering, and mail fraud PHILLIPS, Orville Rex Unlawful structure of a financial transaction POLING, Vinson Stewart, Jr. Making a false bank entry, and aiding and abetting PROUSE, Norman Lyle Operating or directing the operation of a common carrier while under the influence of alcohol PRUITT, Willie H. H., Jr. Absent without official leave PURSLEY, Danny Martin, Sr. Aiding and abetting the conduct of an illegal gambling business, and obstruction of state laws to facilitate illegal gambling RAVENEL, Charles D. Conspiracy to defraud the United States RAY, William Clyde Fraud using a telephone REGALADO, Alfredo Failure to report the transportation of currency in excess of $10,000 into the United States RICAFORT, Ildefonso Reynes Submission of false claims to Veterans Administration RICH, Marc Switzerland fled prosecution for secruities fraud RIDDLE, Howard Winfield Violation of the Lacey Act (receipt of illegally imported animal skins) RILEY, Richard Wilson, Jr. Possession of cocaine with intent to distribute ROBBINS, Samuel Lee Misprision of a felony RODRIGUEZ, Joel Gonzales Theft of mail by a postal employee ROGERS, Michael James Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute marijuana ROSS, Anna Louise Distribution of cocaine RUST, Gerald Glen False declarations before grand jury RUST, Jerri Ann False declarations before grand jury RUTHERFORD, Bettye June Possession of marijuana with intent to distribute SANDS, Gregory Lee Conspiracy to distribute cocaine SCHWIMMER, Adolph Conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to export arms and ammunition to a foreign country and related charges SERETTI, Albert A., Jr. Conspiracy and wire fraud SHAW, Patricia Campbell Hearst Armed bank robbery and using a firearm during a felony SMITH, Gerald Owen Armed bank robbery SPEAKE, Jimmie Lee Conspiracy to possess and utter counterfeit $20 Federal Reserve notes STEWART, Charles Bernard Illegally destroying U.S. Mail STEWART-ROLLINS, Marlena Francisca Conspiracy to distribute cocaine TANNEHILL, Richard Lee Conspiracy and restraint of trade TENAGLIA, Nicholas C. Receipt of illegal payments under the Medicare program THOMAS, Gary Allen Theft of mail by postal employee TODD, Larry Weldon Conspiracy to commit an offense against the U.S. in violation of the Lacey Act and the Airborne Hunting Act TREVINO, Olga C. Misapplication by a bank employee VAMVOUKLIS, Ignatious Possession of cocaine VAN DE WEERD, Patricia A Theft by a U.S. Postal employee WARMATH, Bill Wayne Obstruction of correspondence WATSON, Jack Kenneth Making false statements of material facts to the U.S. Forest Service WEBB, Donna Lynn False entry in savings and loan record by employee WELLS, Donald William Possession of an unregistered firearm WENDT, Robert H. Conspiracy to effectuate the escape of a federal prisoner WILLIAMS, Jack L. Making false statements to federal agents WILLIAMS, Kevin Arthur Conspiracy to distribute and possess with intent to distribute crack cocaine WILLIAMS, Robert Michael Conspiracy to transport in foreign commerce securities obtained by fraud WILSON, Jimmie Lee Converting property mortgaged or pledged to a farm credit agency, and converting public money to personal use WINGATE, Thelma Louise Mail fraud WOOD, Mitchell Couey Conspiracy to possess and to distribute cocaine WOOD, Warren Stannard Conspiracy to defraud the United States by filing a false document with the Securities and Exchange Commission WORTHEY, Dewey Medicaid fraud YALE, Rick Allen Bank fraud YASAK, Joseph A. Knowingly making under oath a false declaration regarding a material fact before a grand jury YINGLING, William Stanley Interstate transportation of stolen vehicle YOUNG, Phillip David Interstate transportation and sale of fish and wildlife But, you know Pop, I'd just bet you have no problem at all when it's a Democrat screwing the law.

The last Sci-Fi book I read that I liked (there have been many I hated) was Old Man's War by John Scalzi. I'm not a big fan of his work in general but he did a good job on this one. Well worth the 6 bucks to buy and a weekend or two to read.

Dania Florida is a little oceanside suburb of Ft. Lauderdale. We call it Little Quebec because every year from November to April is population triples from the Canadian snowbirds . There are many, many, and more trailer parks (nice ones not Jerry Springer ones) that are shuttered and empty during the summer but are bustling with pasty white skinned folks with French accents during the winter. Anyway, they are nice enough folks but traffic congestion rises so dramatically in South Broward County you cannot even drive from here to there without getting into a traffic jam. Because these folks drive s....l...o...w....! I blame Canada when I'm late to work in the winter! So, do I win the prize?

Things I love about Canada: 1)Molson Canadian (mmmmm good stuff) 2)The Toronto Maple Leafs (sorry Habs but you are NOT Canada's team) 3)Bioware (nuff said) 4)Molson Canadian 5)It's where Labardor Retirevers came from (Canada's best export next to Molson Canadian) 6)They are the butt of every South Park joke and take it with good grace (Blame Canada, Blame Canada) 7)Shania Twain 8)Molson Canadian (So much better than anything from Labatts)

Has anyone read Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke? If so can you give an idea if it is any good or at least worth the time it would take to read it? And passing up reading other things in the meantime?

EEEWWWWW Anyway, I've said all I can say on this subject. Teeth, Taks, Tale, Sand, Wals, Gorgon, and all the rest, it was an enjoyable debate as always.

The "I know it when I see it" line wasn't Scalia. It was Potter Stewart, in his concurrence to Jacobellis v. Ohio, in 1964. I stand corrected.

To quote that great American, Antonin Scalia "I cannot define it but I know it when I see it".

Except the Federal Government does not fund the schools. The individual states do. None of your Federal Income Tax goes to education. A good chunk of you State Income/Property/Sales Tax does. The US department of Education does set minimum standards for what must be taught in each grade level, what standardized testing to use, etc. This is so that if a high school student were to move from one state to another their education level would be commesurate with their new classmates. The Federal Government is allowed to do this (obliquely) in the Constitution under the "Full Faith and Credit Clause" (Article IV Section I). As a side note, that same clause is what will eventually get Gay Marriage legalized throughout the Country I think. @Calax that kind of Constitutional sabre rattling does go on now (as Taks pointed out) and it is a de jure violation of the framers intent. Something else for you guys to consider. Suppose tomorrow Uncle Sam did roll out a national health policy that literally does what Hillary Care would have. That is seize (for State/Public owned) or buy (for privately owned) and nationalize hospitals and medical practices, make their employees into Federal employees. First off the full cost of everything must be borne by the taxpayer. That means to cost of the actual acquisition. Then new contracts with drug companies/medical supply companies/ etc will need to be negotiated. Then the is the actual cost of creating a new bueracracy to manage it all, the Unions of those Unionized medical employees will sue, the owners of practices who will not sell will sue, the insurance companies will sue, there will be hundreds of constitutional challanges all over the country that will end up in court. Until ALL of that crap is settles the Federal Government will be unable to provide even a band aid to anyone but whatever new taxes are needed to fund it all will still need to be paid. And on top of that you have the same health system you do now until it's settled. There will be at least one election cycle before all of that is settled and who ever is in power will be thrown out and if the new administration had a brain thay would pull the plug on the whole thing. That is a grim but realistic scenario. Sound like something you want?

Then we change the Constitution. But then you would have to move. Popular thinking would put Iowa in the South-Midwest bloc in post break up america. How could you ever leave Iowa behind.

Individual State run health care. As I posted earlier. If the State of Washington desides to subsidize health care for it's citizens, then I applaud them for it. I'm not opposed to government run health care. I AM opposed to FEDERAL Government run health care. @Calax, you are correct. The words "health care" do not appear in the Constitution. Therefore the 10th Amendment forbids the Federal Government from involving itself in it. At the same time it empowers the State Governments to pursue it if their voters approve.