Grant Dempsey

That screenshot was really interesting to me. Until now, I'd assumed that Atton's death scene resulted from his torture scene, but that screenshot proved that wasn't so. During Atton's torture scene, Darth Sion supposedly sliced off one of Atton's arms with his lightsaber. Yet from that screenshot of Atton's death scene, both of Atton's arms were seen intact. I wonder what was supposed to have killed Atton, then...? Maybe it was actually a result of the big scene wherein the heroes confronted Darth Traya without the Exile...

Don't forget, guys, that one of the biggest themes/ideas in Handmaiden's sidestory was "disloyalty" and "betrayal". Arren Kae betrayed the Jedi Order by falling in love with Yusanis and bearing a child. Yusanis betrayed the one he "pledged himself to" by falling in love with Arren Kae and leaving to fight beside her in the Mandalorian Wars. Handmaiden was a living reminder (the result) of their disloyalties and viewed as such by the rest of the Handmaiden Sisters. Furthermore, it was believed within the Echani culture that things such as disloyalty and betrayal were traits that actually ran in bloodlines. Handmaiden strove and trained hard to prove that this was not so. Now, if Kreia was Arren Kae after having been corrupted by the energies of Malachor V and was Handmaiden's mother, imagine how her title as "Darth Traya" -- "Lord of Betrayal" -- would fit into the aspect of Handmaiden's sidestory that dealt with "disloyalty and betrayal being traits that ran in bloodlines"? Also, by accepting the Exile's offer to train her as a Jedi Guardian and to feel the Force, she, of course, ultimately betrayed her oath to Master Atris. In addition to that, after Kreia was defeated at the Trayus Core, when she spoke of Handmaiden's future, she said that Handmaiden would follow Master Atris' path as a historian and chronicler of the lore, artifacts, and beliefs of the Jedi Order...which, of course, not only led to Master Atris' fall to the Dark Side of the Force, but was also Kreia's path in life, which also led to her fall. Could it be that Handmaiden was destined to meet the same fate? If Kreia was indeed Arren Kae and indeed Handmaiden's mother, that would throw a very interesting spin on Handmaiden's sidestory... I don't know if I'm quite convinced of it myself, though. It's a very imaginative theory and I like the ideas a lot, but it was never explicitly mentioned during the game itself and it could be that we're overlooking some fact about Kreia and/or Arren Kae's histories that would make this theory impossible.

You say that a story should simply end where it has ended, finish when it has finished. I agree. I don't want another installment in this series simply to see Revan return "home" or return to Bastila/Carth. I don't desire a third game because I desperately hope for a happy ending for Revan. I desire a third game because Revan's tale -- his conflict -- hasn't been resolved. It was constantly said throughout this game that Revan disappeared to confront a "greater evil" threatening the galaxy from beyond the Outer Rim. Has he succeeded? Has he failed? What exactly was this "greater evil" that he saw? In one of the endings, the Exile even chose to follow Revan in an effort to help him fight it. What has happened to the Exile in that case? (For the record, I don't have any preference at this point for whether I feel Revan's tale should end happily or bittersweet or whatever. I would only hope that the ending be satisfying -- i.e. not just abrupt and inconclusive -- and keeps in line with the themes and ideas of the series and the individual game itself.) So, let's try another example. Ending Revan's tale now with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords would be more like ending Luke Skywalker's tale in the films with Star Wars: Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back. It's a good reasonable comparison, I think. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic was akin to Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope in that it could function on its own as a relatively self-contained story. However, when the second installment in both series were brought into the mixture, the storylines became more complicated, pretty much leading directly into another sequel. You can't keep arguing that Revan's tale has now been fully and satisfyingly resolved when Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords was pretty clearly leading into something more. (This isn't even a criticism of the game on my part. I love complexity in the stories of video games, and I thought the plot developments in this game and the way it continued Revan's tale was fascinating.) When you insist that Revan's tale has been fully resolved at this point, are you just ignoring this game or considering only the first one, or what? Also, like someone else said, I'm not trying to insist that I think Revan's tale should continue on for FIVETHOUSANDEIGHTHUNDREDFOURTYTWO more games. However, in my opinion, it does still need to be resolved. I would ultimately prefer that it be resolved in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III to bring the series to trilogy status in good ol' Star Wars tradition. At that point, I wouldn't mind if the series were to move onto something new. I just would hope for some resolution to the current storyline first. Well, I suppose I'm in the minority here, but, first and foremost, I'm into these games for the sake of experiencing an immersive storyline. (I also seem to be in what seems to be a minority in that I'm attached to both casts of character now -- Revan's and the Exile's -- and don't simply value only Revan's.) Not just so that I can make choices, and completely affect and change the main storyline based on every single one of my actions. The fact that I can determine the basic ending of the current story and that I can determine the personality of the main character is more the style through which the story is presented, as I see it, not the central focus itself. Don't get me wrong, I love that style and how each experience can be made personal to you. But I wouldn't base the idea of "satisfying closure" within the storyline entirely around whether or not "my actions" had complete say in its resolution. I loved the complexity that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords brought, not only to the overall storyline, but also to Revan's character specifically. It actually made Revan even more interesting to me. Hell, I thought the game handled working both endings from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic into the plot individually quite well. In the context of the sequel, they made both of the original's ending lead into the same plot point (Revan disappearing from the galaxy to confront a "greater evil"), true, but it managed to keep everything clean and in order without being inconsistent or incoherent. They even made the original's Dark Side ending work well in leading into that plot point, I thought, particularly when you also examine Kreia's dialogue regarding Revan's first "fall" to the Dark Side of the Force. I don't care that they expanded on Revan's implied fate in such a way that they didn't leave him to simply use the Star Forge to conquer the Galactic Republic. It, in my opinion, made him appear more dynamic than "the Sith Lord that either redeemed himself and saved the Galactic Republic or chose to rejoin the Sith and conquer the galaxy again". If I had to choose between having "my actions" be the complete be-all and end-all in determining the storyline or having the storyline evolve on its own (while remaining consistent) for the sake of expansion and development, I would probably choose the latter. Now, keep in mind, I'm not criticizing the first game here. I loved both games. While I felt that that complexity worked quite well for the sequel and for the sake of expanding the storyline, I also felt that (comparitive) simplicity worked quite well for the original. To an extent, the original carried a particular sort of charm to it in that regard that the sequel lacked. Besides, the endings in the first game can't really classify as "your actions", can they? They were "your actions" as Revan in a pretty close way as to how Revan leaving the galaxy to confront the "True" Sith Empire was. You couldn't determine the specific events of either ending. You couldn't, for example, refuse to accept the medal that Master Vandar awarded to you in the Light Side ending, or work toward conquering the galaxy through manipulative means instead of using brute force and the Star Forge. What you determined was really just the basic concept behind the endings: either you made Revan "redeem himself to the Light Side of the Force" or you made Revan "fall again to the Dark Side of the Force". What about the gamers who might not've liked the fact that Revan apparently chose to use the Star Forge again? What about the gamers who kept Revan's alignment at Neutral and weren't even awarded a specific ending for it at all? The same goes for the Exile and the choices he apparently made during his endings. Yes, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords had two endings, just like the original: Light Side and Dark Side.

Well, I agree with most of what you said -- about this game not simply serving to continue Revan's tale, but to introduce a new chapter and to continue expanding on the saga's themes (although I do still think Knights of the Old Republic has essentially become "The Tale of Revan (and the Exile)" regardless). However, I disagree that Kreia's final dialogue "neatly resolved everything" in the context of the series as a whole to such a point that it served as an entirely satisfying ending to the series' overall storyline. I thought it functioned quite well as a satisfying "resolution" to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords specifically, but it was obvious that it left several things open-ended, that it was leading into a potential direct sequel. Revan's tale has not been fully resolved. He disappeared into the regions of unknown space in the Outer Rim to confront a "greater evil" that only he alone had somehow perceived, which Kreia identified as the "True" Sith Empire. The advancements in Revan's tale in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords set up an incredible premise for a great conclusion to the series in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III, particularly in the Light Side ending, wherein the Exile chose to follow Revan into the beyond to help him. I think we do still need an overall resolution to this storyline before the series ends up moving onto something else entirely.

I don't quite understand the people who say they didn't care for the Exile's character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords, yet really grew attached to Revan's character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic. (Note: I'm not targetting you, Darth Jebus. I'm not really directly replying so much as just using a part of your post to spring off into a point of my own. I just wanted to say that so that this doesn't seem like I'm attacking you or anything.) I mean, for all intents and purposes, weren't Revan and the Exile's personalities basically exactly the same in their respective games? Their backstories were different, true, but both of their personalities were pretty much determined entirely by the player. The same basic sort of dialogue options were presented for both, too. It didn't seem to me like Revan had "better" selfless ways of following the Jedi Code and redeeming himself to the Light Side of the Force in his game, or like the Exile had "better" malicious ways of committing acts of cruelty and slaughter and falling to the Dark Side of the Force in his game. (Actually, it did seem to me like the Exile had more dialogue options available to him during any given conversation than Revan had, but that doesn't entirely change my point. It also seemed to me like the Exile's backstory actually played more of a consistent role in his personality in terms of dialogue options throughout than Revan's did, but that was admittedly primarily simply because Revan's was only revealed over halfway into his game for the sake of the game's plot twist.) Aside from their personalities, all that was really different was their backstories and their adventures over the course of their game. I thought the Exile's backstory and "hidden secret" was really interesting, personally, and I thought Revan's was as well. Revan's backstory played into his game more as a shocking plot twist and functioned more as something that changed his perspective of himself and what he should ultimately choose to do (which was a plot point that I loved), whereas the Exile's backstory played into his game more as something that he was haunted by and functioned more as something that might've led him to the numerous choices he made throughout his journey. Anyway, I've grown attached to both of them. I guess I just don't quite understand how people could've grown "attached" to Revan, while, at the same time, really disliking or not caring at all for the Exile, since, backstories aside, their personalities were basically the same throughout their games. *shrug* I do agree with that. Knights of the Old Republic has been Revan's tale in the same way (or at least a similar way) as to how the films basically told Anakin Skywalker's tale. Still, regardless of that, the Exile was another important character. To continue using your comparison to the films, what would it have been like if the character of Luke Skywalker never appeared again after Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope? If he was just left to be forgotten as the films changed their focus onto Anakin Skywalker again? Luke Skywalker was "only a means to an end", sure, but he was still an extremely crucial character. In the same vein, the Exile has seemingly become quite a crucial character for Knights of the Old Republic himself. Both of his endings functioned in laying out a potential role for his character in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III. Either he chose to follow Revan into the Outer Rim to confront the "True" Sith Empire, in which case he could play a future role in fighting this new threat alongside Revan (whom T3-M4 said had apparently wanted to find the Exile to convince him to help him in the first place), or he chose to remain on Malachor V and assume the dark throne of the Trayus Academy, in which case he could play a future role in becoming a threat of some sort himself or perhaps something else. Besides, Revan and the Exile were polar opposites, which could play a future role as well. (Another Force Bond or something along those lines, perhaps?) Kreia described looking at Revan as "looking into the heart of the Force" and looking at the Exile as "looking at the death of the Force"... Either way, while I do desperately hope that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III will continue Revan's tale and will be majorly disappointed if it doesn't end up doing so, I will probably be nearly as disappointed if it doesn't end up continuing the Exile's tale as well. I think it should continue and use both to create a satisfying ending to the overall saga. Its full potential can only be met by using both characters, as far as I see it.

Palpatine?! "

I have no idea how I would prefer Revan's ultimate fate to end up being when the conflict of Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III is all said and done: alive or dead. However, I do feel that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III should -- without a doubt -- continue the telling of Revan's (and the Exile's) story. The game will be a major disappointment for me otherwise, really. These first two games simply have been incredible in telling one continuous story with so many awesome and consistent themes and ideas, that it would be truly disappointing for the next game to flash forward a century and deal with something unrelated or only really indirectly related. My preference for a premise for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III would be for the main player character to be a brand-new character, but not just an "unknown nobody" or what have you. I would still like for the third main player character to have a "dark past" of his/her own -- despite his/her current personality being dictated entirely by the player -- or at least something that would make me feel like I'm not just playing a random Force Sensitive farmer from Dantooine who decided to pick up a lightsaber and sail out into the Outer Rim. I want the third main player character to have a set backstory of his/her own and perhaps even an interesting "secret" about him/her, just like Revan and the Exile. Anyway, with this brand-new third main player character, I would again like to resume the story of Revan's mysterious actions and whereabouts after either saving the Galactic Republic from the clutches of Darth Malak or claiming rule over the Sith -- once again -- by defeating Darth Malak, as well as the story of either the Exile's choice to follow Revan -- once more -- into the Outer Rim to confront the "True" Sith Empire or the Exile's choice to assume the dark throne of the Trayus Academy on Malachor V. The only problem (albeit a major one, I confess) would be how to handle the stories, physical appearance, classes, etc., of Revan and the Exile in the next game, if they were to return directly. The best way I can think of is to implement another portrait system that would allow the player to determine the characters' physical appearance. They could take the selectable portraits directly from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic for Revan's physical appearance and the selectable portraits directly from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords for the Exile's physical appearance or something...

I've heard that the default setting for Revan, if the player were to choose, "I don't know," at anytime while talking to Atton about him/her, was actually that Revan was female and had fallen to the Dark Side.

Judging from how people have discovered audio and text files within the disc itself for scenes with Kreia and Atris in the role of "Darth Traya" on Malachor V, I'm kind of thinking that they were going to be the result of slightly alternate paths through the game, that somehow one of (or several of) the player's choices throughout the game was going to determine which of those two characters ended up being the one to be confronted on Malachor V. That being said, I don't think I really agree with people when they say the ending would've been "so much better" had Atris been the final adversary instead of Kreia. It certianly would've been interesting and it would've been great if the two possibilities were actually both in the game, but if I had to choose one or the other, I would probably stick with Kreia filling the role of "Darth Traya", as it was in the released version of the game. Kreia was really a very interesting character and "villain" to me because she wasn't just an outright evil Sith Lord corrupted by the Dark Side of the Force and intent on slaughtering the Jedi and/or conquering the galaxy. She was interesting to me because she was more original than that, and because her intentions and motives were more original than that. I tend to find myself more interested in villains that have more to them than just "being evil and badass". A sympathetic side, or a tragic side, or an understandable side, or relatable motives, or whatever. Whereas Kreia truly seemed relatively "Neutral" and arguably wasn't very "evil" at all, Atris seemed like she had really basically just fallen to the Dark Side of the Force, and if that really was basically all there would've been to her character as "Darth Traya" on Malachor V, I probably would've still found Kreia a much more interesting final enemy. Then again, I do think, however, that if Atris' love/admiration for/of the Exile were brought into the picture on Malachor V, it could've allowed for some very interesting things and quite possibly even rival Kreia's relationship with the Exile at that point. But, of course, that would depend on how it was handled.