Panteleimon

I do concur here. People associate Might with Strength, but it isn't Strength, it is a reflection of the "force" or "power" of your soul. You could be a 100 pound weakling in Eora and have a 18 or higher Might. Changing it over to Power would be a good idea and fairly simple to implement. Ugh, there's no poetry to "power". And they can't really be used interchangeably in this context. "Power" makes it sound like the end-all be all attribute of existence, which is hardly helpful. Having 18 Might doesn't mean you can crush heads like eggshells, scale Mount Everest and shoot lightning bolts out of your backside. People can take a minute to educate themselves, it's ok. PrimeJunta hit the nail on the head, I think.

Oh man, the Xvart village. How sad, and what a wasted opportunity to make those little guys more than tiny blue XP boosts.

There were a TON of quests you could only find in BG by wandering the countryside. The same is true for PoE.

Using might as a damage multiplier for high-damage weapons like crossbows and firearms not only doesn't make logical sense but seems doomed to lead to gross combat imbalances, yes. I don't know how they'll balance and rationalize them, but they'll come up with something.

No, I fully understand that. The problem with might is that it's abstract while the other attributes are concrete. The thing is souls aren't abstract in this world, nor are the ways they tie in to your overall physical condition/abilities. Oh, in this world souls have muscles, I guess. And there will be 2 portraits in the game - one for my character, another for my soul? Man, you need to sit down and get over your preconception of the word "might" as it relates to this game. The idea that the condition of one's soul(your essence, everything meaningful that makes you who you are) actively effects your physical condition and abilities is not an alien concept for me because I already believe that in reality. Apparently this is not the case for many of the people on here. I understand you want an attribute that directly measures physical strength, but I think you're going to have to make do with a broader definition of "might" and constitution. I guess that's a valid point, although then it feels odd to define all kinds of other things, but you can't decide if your character lifts weights or pizza slices. I absolutely agree. I wish I could just read the game manual entry for "Might" so I could rationalize it better.

No, I fully understand that. The problem with might is that it's abstract while the other attributes are concrete. The thing is souls aren't abstract in this world, nor are the ways they tie in to your overall physical condition/abilities.

Absolutely. They have a few options with how they could balance them: by giving them very long reload times, accuracy penalties or possibilities for misfires, make powder/ammunition expensive(I paid so little attention to it so far in the demo, do bows even need ammo? I don't think they do). But at the end of the day there are reasons why crossbows and firearms were viewed(negatively) as equalizers on the battlefield. The fact that ingame firearms are valued for their ability to pierce wizards' protections is a parallel of crossbows in reality being able to pierce lords' and knights' plate armor with relative ease.

If you're going to put more emphasis on something, for goodness' sake put it on CULTURE, not race. The world of PoE has already taken brave strides away from the infantile "Elf-landia" or "Orcopolis" of other fantasy media and put together legitimate nations where race is mostly a minor component. Larger cultural bonuses/penalties would not bother me. EDIT: I agree with Tartantyco, however, that emphasis should be placed on how they effect the character's interaction with the world rather than attributes.

Not having a go but it's not strength. Its might. As in magical Might, mental might, physical might, strength of your healing....basically being mighty.... which doesn't always mean how well you swing a sword. The others are then based around ... I also like how raising your character's might attribute makes bullets and arrows more mighty by defying the laws of physics. They should call it super mysterious magical damage multiplier. It is strange. Didn't crossbows(I don't think there were any other self-propelled weapons in those games) in the IE games NOT use strength as a damage modifier, in exchange for a higher base damage range? Seems like that's something that's likely to change before the game ships.

lol. I've played Baldur's Gate when I was 13. I played PST when I was 14. And I managed to understand everything. So. The question is... no, no question. Then why is it so hard to understand now? Cause it's difficult to undestand why in order to hurl powerfull fireballs my wizards should be like Arnold Schwarzenegger - both good at melee and spells. Why? It simply DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. That's why neither I, nor a lot of people understand this system. If I don't understand what exactly stat means - how can I relate to my character? How can you describe person with high 'Might' stat? When it comes to classic self-explanatory stats, let's say, in Fallout.... We have: Strength - high strength means my character is strong, he has muscles, like Terminator Perception - also self-explanatory. With hight PER my character can see and hear better, is more focused, and alert. Endurance - also (!) self-explanatory. How tough is my character. It doesn't give strange bonuses to random attribute only to make it more viable - everything IS LOGICAL. Same with all other stats. LUCK (self-explanatory), AGILITY - also... etc... And this is not D&D at all. It's an example of good, logical, easy to understand system, where all stats affect only those aspects of character that is logical. Is there something complex about the concept that "might" is intestinal fortitude and strength of spirit, not just a measurement of your biceps? Magic in PoE doesn't derive from the mage sitting in a tower and poring over spell scrolls and complex formulae(intelligence). He's a conduit for the magic to pour out of his grimoire and aside from some technical bits, what he depends on most is soul-strength, which happens to also tie in partially to physical strength(not entirely, that's why we have constitution) . Intelligence optimizes his spells and their effects, which makes sense in the setting. Use your imagination and stop being a slave to rule-sets that have no inherent value.

Because your idea of fun is for the classes to have the same play style. Sure the wizard and fighter have different tactics, but they now both focus on tactics in battle; while in the IE games fighters were more about strategy in setting up their gear. Not to mention the fact that the old fighters made exploration simple by allowing you to dispatch trash mobs without much effort or mental energy. This is just another major departure from the IE games. One that some may consider better, and others consider worse. Whether or not it's better isn't important; it isn't something that can be co-exist with the feel of an IE game. It's not fun to throw some magic tin suit and a magic pig sticker +3 on my PC Paladin and cut him loose auto-attacking linebacker style while the wizards go to work with all their spells. Here's a shocking concept: they could make front liners' true lethality derive from their own skills and abilities, not the breastplate they're wearing. They aren't mannequins for their trinkets, they're deadly dang people with a deeper skillset than whacking(at level 4 they get whacking repeatedly though Panteleimon!). Playing BG2 with a non-caster was like being a backup dancer for Brittany Spears. You think giving them casomyr made it all better, and you're wrong. It was lipstick on a pig. If movement away from "Mages of Amn" bothers you THAT much, then Karkarov is right and you want Harry Potter with dice.

PoE is legitimately in beta. It's feature complete and the rest of development will be spent polishing, balancing and bug fixing, with late-game implementation of "small" stuff like some UI and VO. Wasteland was about as "beta" as DayZ is now. It was the nowadays all-too-common move of trading early access to a half-finished game for money. There is literally no comparison. Stop hand-wringing and listen to PrimeJunta. He's one of the only people in the thread who's speaking sense.

You do realise that Sawyer is not a fan of Baldur's Gate 2. Right? Out of curiosity, do you know the reason/s?

Yeah, I agree. I think we will see 6 attributes in the end for the very reasons you stated. I mean, it's in beta. It's content complete. That the attribute system is here to stay shouldn't exactly be a surprise to anyone.

Now that you mention it the experience thread in the gameplay discussion forum is missing a lot of people from the previous thread who where very active in the thread before the beta. The one thing that hasn't changed is that the hottest thread on the forum (which is the one about combat xp) is completely ignored by the developers. Right, because publicly weighing in on a thread that most closely resembles a middle school cafeteria won't make it degenerate even further into screeching white-noise or anything. The devs are acutely aware of the "passion" level on the forums and have evidently chosen to use it more as a listening post than a sounding board as development progresses.

I thought that in BG enemies would prioritize the biggest damage dealers. So often when fighting, say, a boss, if your archer was doing the most damage, the boss would trot over and cave his face in. The same went for wizards. So you often had to actively surround the enemy to hold him in place.

The Dutch colonized South Africa, and they ended up as white Africans speaking a new language, Afrikaans, in no time. The British colonized Rhodesia and they ended up with a very divergent dialect in no time. Regardless, the NATIVES of Eir Glanfath are the ones who speak Cornish/Irish. The colonists are just picking up the lingo as they come into contact with them. I doubt the Dyrwoodan city dwellers are much more informed of the natives' language than you are. The Vailians down south speak Vailian(Occitan/French/Italian), just like Colombians speak Spanish. A branch off the Old Vailian tree. It all fits pretty naturally, given what information we have available so far. Can't wait for that almanac.

Except that some posters want exactly that. Not to mention I have no way of knowing Obsidian will address this issue or even if it isn't intentional. It is a major problem with an easy fix. I want to bring it up so hopefully Obsidian takes notice. If I had simply posted once and let this get buried it would increase the chance this issue will not be noticed and thus not resolved. Fair enough.

I tend to agree and the problem I have with it is the following. Obsidian is trying to create an entirely new world and part of a world are, of course, the languages. However, also part of the world is the character we play, who is supposed to feel at home there. But we as players do not if can't pronounce half of the stuff that is said to us. How am I supposed to role-play a character without completely breaking immersion every few minutes when I encounter a ton of names I can't even pronounce but the character is actually supposed to be familiar with? Another problem are NPCs - it's way easier to remember NPCs and put them into context if we can associate a name with them. And names are remembered via sound, not spelling. If I can't pronounce a name, chances are I won't remember it for long, either. And let's be honest - there's a ton of really good fantasy worlds out there that managed to create great immersion without inventing words most people can't even pronounce properly. So yeah, I certainly could do with less made-up fantasy names I can't pronounce... Uh, your character DOESN'T come from this area. Eir Glanfath is not a national background you can choose, and in the demos they've run, you're introduced as a new arrival to the area. You're on an entirely new continent. People here don't speak the same language as they did back home. They don't even all speak the same languages. What a shock. I believe this is often a large part of the issue.

I know you were talking about petty enemies. I'm simply speaking to a couple other things. I had relative trouble with Kobolds even at higher levels in BG1. They were throwing around enough arrows that some of them were bound to stick. The elite ones that used elemental or poisoned arrows were a big deal. Regardless, slaughtering dozens of them DID gradually deplete resources and didn't come at zero cost. There's nothing experimental or alien about not letting the player and his party literally run all over the world with a steamroller like Skyrim or Dragon Age. The fact that the fights are plateaued in difficulty is obviously a temporary balancing issue in the same vein as the chanter being insanely OP. Drawing attention to it is commendable, hand-wringing over it as though it was a conscious final design choice is not.

I didn't say I don't understand the need for some fights to be easier than others. But even a Kobold can sneak in an arrow that kills someone and brings you out of that lazy comfort zone. When you walk through their hood, you're bound to come through on the other side with holes in you, even if they're 'only Kobolds'. But when we're talking about fighting Nyfre in the inn? Or the guys looking for her on the riverbank? Those people are just like you. It should be one hell of a fight. Ogres? Mr. Sawyer himself said the only reason they don't take over the civilized races in the area is because they fight so much. They're practically an intelligent force of nature. Of course the Ogre is a tough SOB. No promises you'll all make it through, if at all. And that's WHY you don't HAVE to fight in those encounters AT ALL. Don't want to take the risk of you and/or your party getting wasted? Don't want to have to spend a couple days resting up and licking your wounds? Look for the peaceful solution, maybe not because you don't want to hurt anyone, but because you're not comfortable you can take them. Just like sizing up an opponent in RL. Nothing is so commonly lacking and so desperately needed in RPGs and games in general nowadays like forcing humility and respect for the other people and creatures in the world on the player.

I've been playing on hard difficulty with expert mode on. So far the challenge has been appropriate and fun, outside of the bugs that require you to really be aware of them, or even just start over. Regardless, I don't get a power-boner when I stomp all over weak enemies. I feel like I'm having my hand held and my back patted simultaneously while someone says "who's a big boy?! YOU are!". I get satisfaction from fights like, say, wiping out another party about your own size. There's just as many of them as there are of you, and they're sentient beings that are very determined not to be the ones loaded into body bags. Why SHOULDN'T it be an awfully brutal struggle? I still remember the names of those Amnish aristocrats from the Cloudpeaks in BG1 because they were so lethal.

A lot of things are "basically a knight". Samurai were basically knights. Ritterbruder were basically knights. Jomsvikings were basically knights. Varangians were basically knights. Kataphraktoi were basically knights. The bard was courteous enough to relate the local vernacular into something a foreigner might understand. You can't have a deeply fleshed-out world without it containing languages. Tolkien couldn't have created Middle Earth unless he also included the languages, history and culture that went along with it's peoples and kingdoms. A lot of this stuff is already partially explained in posts by devs and the couple books you can find ingame. The lingo being thrown out in Dyrford is like Breton being spoken in France. The people who live in the cities don't know it much better than you do, and you're coming in cold. It's pretty close to what it's like being in a country where you don't really speak the language. Lots of 'Wie bitte?' You can't be a 'stranger in a strange land' without that experience. Anyway, in the beta you're being dumped in with virtually no exposition or info, so of course it's a little obtuse, but those languages are as necessary to building a solid organic world as not having nations and kingdoms based on race(Orc Town, Elf Land, etc) .

Come on man, they sent like 4 guys to one of the largest press events in PC gaming for a long weekend to plug it so they can actually sell it to more than just the backers. They're doing their job.

What does kill xp have to do with what you said? I'm saying that you basically told that guy to go play other games if he doesn't like your view of what PoE is. The funny thing is that you're the one getting the short end of the stick, so at the end of the day you can take your own advice.